UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[Joolz1975]

I think the defence will come across as badly as they have done so far. I don't think there will be much of an argument or battle tbh. JMO

I hope not ATWFD. Hopefully the prosecution have tied things up enough for a guilty verdict.

 

[Dotta]

i believe that was the trousers worn up until he went home after the second trip to the park. As I understand, he changed his trousers after his bath.

Yes I know. But if these trousers are evidence of him kneeling at the river bank they surely should be examined by police. Were they?

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

I hope not ATWFD. Hopefully the prosecution have tied things up enough for a guilty verdict.

IMO they definitely have. JMO

 

[Skigh]

DBM

 

[Sooty]

Yes I know. But if these trousers are evidence of him kneeling at the river bank they surely should be examined by police. Were they?

i would imagine so, but I haven’t heard that as evidence. As far as I’m aware they haven’t been able to place him in the park, or at the river. ??

 

[Newthoughts]

I wonder if the clothes he was wearing earlier in the evening (petrol station) were the same ones he changed into after he returned home from the park with Libby or were they the same ones all evening till he got changed? Did he have an explanation for why he changed his clothes?

I think the petrol station footage was there to show the jury his strange cuffed jeans and shoes so that they when they saw the spidercam footage they'd recognise it as him. So I think those are the clothes he would have worn to attack Libby.

He says when he went home he washed those and had a bath. I think he says he washed them cos he didn't want his wife to know he'd cheated. I think forensics said they smelt of washing powder bug that they'd identified grass stains

So the later footage is what he's changed into for his second outing to the park

 

[Dotta]

I think the defence will come across as badly as they have done so far. I don't think there will be much of an argument or battle tbh. JMO

If that is your opinion so why bother with defence then?

 

[Newthoughts]

Given he's claiming to be innocent, he hasn't even tried to act the part. An innocent man who'd had consensual sex with a young woman who wound up dead after he'd left her on her own in the dark, late at night, would at the very least be saying how sad and sorry he feels that he'd been so uncaring.

Yes. And even a man guilty of rape would tell the consensual sex story very early on if he thought there was a chance she'd be found.

 

[Newthoughts]

If that is your opinion so why bother with defence then?

To ensure a fair trial.

Like the prosecution the defence can only work with the evidence. They haven't had a lot to work with. But they'll do the best they can.

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

If that is your opinion so why bother with defence then?

I don't understand your question. Do you mean a trial shouldn't bother with defence if I personally believe the prosecution have done a good enough job proving PR guilty? Or something else, sorry, I'm a bit confused.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Due to lockdown I haven't actually spoken to many people about it. What is interesting is that my two friends and I who both know the park well do not think the time line is possible even taking various things into account. And don't think he killed her.

However, my boyfriend who has lived all his life in Hull yet never set foot in that park is adamant that he did do it and the time lines work. We spent about an hour arguing over Google maps and the pics provided

Have to say I agree with these points, very little local chat due to lock down, unlike when she first went missing and EVERYONE was talking about Libby wherever you went.

Also still struggling personally with the park timescales, did the prosecution make a point of saying they thought the 7.5 mins was possible but that Libby couldn't have wandered that far on her own. Seems a slight contradiction to me, either distance is too far and a problem or not, they appeared to only account for the rape timings not the distance. MOO

 

[Newthoughts]

Have to say I agree with these points, very little local chat due to lock down, unlike when she first went missing and EVERYONE was talking about Libby wherever you went.

Also still struggling personally with the park timescales, did the prosecution make a point of saying they thought the 7.5 mins was possible but that Libby couldn't have wandered that far on her own. Seems a slight contradiction to me, either distance is too far and a problem or not, they appeared to only account for the rape timings not the distance. MOO

I think they might be taking into account the fact Libby could barely walk. The terrain to river. The screams heard when she was supposedly with PR nowhere near the river.

Compared with fit, 14 stone man on a mission

 

[bos]

I wonder how his defence will reconcile the differences in his defence statement of Feb 2020 with what he actually said on the stand or if they’ll attempt to?

They haven’t disproved the prosecution’s assertion that 7.5 minutes is enough time for rape & murder much as they’ve attempted to discredit SA’s witness testimony. In fact by calling the other two witnesses, they’ve added weight to the fact there was one set of screams in my mind.

 

[Skigh]

If that is your opinion so why bother with defence then?

I think the defence has
a difficult task as PR gave yet another version of his story when in the dock. I presume this was different to the one they were presented with to prepare his defence.I
In my opinion I do not think PR would be an easy client to work with.

 

[Joolz1975]

I think the defence has
a difficult task as PR gave yet another version of his story when in the dock. I presume this was different to the one they were presented with to prepare his defence.I
In my opinion I do not think PR would be an easy client to work with.

He is a victim of his own lies because if he had admitted the rape in the first place then the jury would be more inclined to believe that he left her alive at Oak Road. The fact that he has repeatedly changed his story to fit in with the evidence has done him no favours.

I would have loved to have seen his reaction when Libby's body was found because he must never have expected that.

 

[Newthoughts]

Given he's claiming to be innocent, he hasn't even tried to act the part. An innocent man who'd had consensual sex with a young woman who wound up dead after he'd left her on her own in the dark, late at night, would at the very least be saying how sad and sorry he feels that he'd been so uncaring.

I'd also add that in addition to not pretending consensual sex took place early because of the high likelihood she'd be found with his DNA - admitting to it would have saved him taking the stand.

As it was he presented a gift to the prosecution. That would have been far better for him as an early statement to the police.

As it is he had to take the stand to explain the evidence which was a car crash for him.

And his early failure to mention it makes it look like he was very sure that evidence wouldn't be found

I now understand the part of the caution that says 'it may harm your defence if you fail to mention when questioned something you later rely on in court' .

 

[Joolz1975]

I have sat on the fence a little on the murder but weighing up what has been said today by the prosecution.

I dont think she was suicidal.

No matter how drunk she was I dont think she would have wandered across Oak Road playing field to the river to fall in accidentally (as the prosecutor said she went and sat in a bus stop on a well lit busy road, she should have been safe there).

I think the chances of a 3rd party finding her and murdering her are so slim that it is laughable that this is even a consideration.

The only explanation that makes sense is that he was responsible for her rape and murder.

 

[Dotta]

I don't understand your question. Do you mean a trial shouldn't bother with defence if I personally believe the prosecution have done a good enough job proving PR guilty? Or something else, sorry, I'm a bit confused.

I don't want to argue on the forum. I understood your post as such - Defence is bad, whatever they say is not worthwile - so why bother then listening to PR's lawyers. Maybe I understood wrongly your words. I think Defence is vital in trials and not to be treated in condescending way. I hope you understand that I didn't want to be offensive.

 

[Sarahjo]

I'm leaning towards PR being guilty on charges of rape AND murder now.

I feel Libby was unlikely to be given the opportunity to escape once PR had overpowered her which was probably very quickly given her vulnerable state.

It also seems he had plenty of opportunity to walk away from her but he didn't. He watched and waited and then got her into his car with a plan in mind.

If there was a chance she had been raped but had escaped him, how would he be so confident as to be prowling the streets again just a few hours later? Wouldn't he be panicking that she could have raised the alarm OR ended up in great danger at his expense by falling in the river? He shows no hint of panic or remorse at any time which makes him a very dangerous individual by my reckoning. I hope justice is done for Libby and her family.

All MOO.

Same for me, throughout the trial I’ve had the mind well, there’s no proof he was IN the park or near the river so what if he did leave her in the street and she stumbled to the river herself..
BUT!!! hearing everything together I’m now leaning towards murder also, mostly due to the fact he didn’t mention the sex (rape) and the point you make above, his confidence walking the street after.. both these things suggest he knew for a fact she wasn’t going to pop up somewhere and tell someone what happened..

I’d be interested to know what he was up to for that week up until his arrest, was he still prowling of an evening or was he keeping a low profile.. did he return to oak road at any point in that week etc??

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I think the petrol station footage was there to show the jury his strange cuffed jeans and shoes so that they when they saw the spidercam footage they'd recognise it as him. So I think those are the clothes he would have worn to attack Libby.

He says when he went home he washed those and had a bath. I think he says he washed them cos he didn't want his wife to know he'd cheated. I think forensics said they smelt of washing powder bug that they'd identified grass stains

So the later footage is what he's changed into for his second outing to the park

He also stated he washed them because they were wet.