UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[Alyce]

Cant the judge set a minimum tariff Alyce?

Yes she will, but I can't see it going over 18 years max. And manslaughter can be ( and usually is ) reduced to 50% for time served. Then he would be out on licence for the remaining 50%.

I'm just editing this as I see the Judge can give a life sentence for manslaughter, which would mean, I think, that 18 years would be 18 years before parole.
But something tells me she wont

 

[JosieJo]

Would he have already been offered a manslaughter plea before trial? If its on the table now?

 

[Tortoise]

I know! That’s what I mean, imagine! Does someone keep the judge up to date with how deliberations are going, so they can intervene if needs be?

They can be called back into court but not allowed to be asked about specifics of deliberations. Only if anything will help them I think, like a question can be answered.

 

[Joolz1975]

Ah yes where they 'accidentally' dragged him along the road not noticing. They got 16 and 13 years.

And then it came out after that one of them had mouthed off to a police officer in the past about ramming an officer over. Should have been murder I think that one.

 

[Alyce]

Would the judge have to consult the prosecution and defence before she offered manslaughter as an option?

I would think yes. They have to agree to it being added.
I suppose that might be the argument ( reason ) for adding it now because at this stage, both Counsel are both more likely to agree.
If, after a few days, the Jury can't reach a decision, even a majority one, then I expect they might view the inclusion differently.

 

[Miss_French]

The judge is right offering the option of manslaughter now, as the prosecution would have already agreed to it as an alternative. So in this case they knew they didn't have evidence solid enough for a definite return of guilty of murder.

"The prosecution should decide in advance of a murder trial whether or not an alternative count of manslaughter should be added to the indictment."

Homicide: Murder and Manslaughter | The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[Tortoise]

It all seems rather late and last minute, in helping the jury understand the case. Rather like they pulled straws to see who was going to be the one to say it. (joke).

 

[Miss_French]

Ah yes where they 'accidentally' dragged him along the road not noticing. They got 16 and 13 years.

The length of sentences were because of the ages of the defendents; the two who were 17, and therefore not classed as adults for legal purposes, got the lower tariff, so not something to consìder for sentencing in this case.

 

[Lyall0814]

The judge is right offering the option of manslaughter now, as the prosecution would have already agreed to it as an alternative. So in this case they knew they didn't have evidence solid enough for a definite return of guilty of murder.

"The prosecution should decide in advance of a murder trial whether or not an alternative count of manslaughter should be added to the indictment."

Homicide: Murder and Manslaughter | The Crown Prosecution Service

I think they did this in Ian Huntley's trial but there was still little doubt about what the jury would decide. It doesn't equal prosecution giving up on the murder charge.

 

[Skigh]

I think they did this in Ian Huntley's trial but there was still little doubt about what the jury would decide. It doesn't equal prosecution giving up on the murder charge.

Didn't Huntley plead guilty to manslaughter,but was being tried for murder?

 

[Mommysleuth11]

It is such a tragedy that with all the evidence the LE had (back in 2016 through to 2019) of an unidentified sexual predator (PR); the witness statements, the physical descriptions (an extremely good likeness one housemate drew in IMO), the neighbours knowledge, and even local hearsay, they could not tie it all together UNTIL a young woman died. That’s where I fully empathise with the frustration of knowing you’ve reported something awful that you’ve been subjected to, and yet sadly often is the case that nothing is/can be done in the ‘early days’ of harassment.

A genuine question (and I do believe that the LE acted swiftly and worked tirelessly to bring this case to court, as well as clearly providing wonderful support to Libby’s parents during an unimaginable time), but does anyone think there may/should be an inquiry into why PR was not already off the streets? Jmo.

100% perhaps Libby may still be here if Humberside Police had done a more thorough job. I get they are underfunded and lack available man power, but there is, locally a long standing lack of trust and faith in "Blunderside" police, shortly before Libby disappeared they were assessed as the only force in the country "requiring improvement". Im sure someone will disagree but this is my personal experience of local opinion generally, going back at least to Christopher Alder and likely before.

 

[Lyall0814]

Didn't Huntley plead guilty to manslaughter,but was being tried for murder?

I don't think so. Half way through the trial he claimed the deaths were accidental. I don't think manslaughter was on the table before the trial (I might be wrong though!)

 

[elliefant]

But we know it will probably be a compromise rather than a proper decision. I hope they go for murder because it'll happen again

It wouldn’t be a compromise for me, and I don’t know why you are assuming the jury members probably won’t give it all due consideration and make a “proper decision”. I don’t know any of them so I have no reason to believe they are any less diligent than me or any of us here, whatever our differing conclusions.

 

[JosieJo]

There must be an update soon ...

 

[porkypies]

out in 10 years or less

But could he next be charged with Perjury and get an additional sentence?

 

[Little Nicki]

Thanks to @jimjam for all the updates and to everyone else who has contributed in any way over the past 2 years. Libbys case brought me here and it's been a long wait for this day, I can't imagine how tough it must of been on her family and it's them I'm thinking of today.
On another note. I think we should maybe not get too hung up on him necessarily getting a low end sentence for this (if it's guilty of manslaughter as opposed to murder). The judge in his previous charges certainly didn't think he was deserving of one so I doubt this one does either. I know of a guy who got 20 years for rape. Two rapes, both on the same night, but to seperate instances. No one died and he still got 20 years.

 

[Alyce]

But could he next be charged with Perjury and get an additional sentence?

Well he could, but again, I doubt it....and it would be more of a slapped wrist kind of sentence

 

[Tortoise]

But could he next be charged with Perjury and get an additional sentence?

No. He wasn't under oath until he was in court.

 

[Catsarse]

Indeed. And why would PR need to be chasing her? If he's already raped her, what further purpose does she serve?

I think the suggestion was he raped her in the park, which I think is overwhelmingly the most probable, and that he left her in a bad way in there and ran off either when she screamed or before her first scream.

I’m sorry to sound morbid, but I wonder what did actually happen re the rape? He had jeans on so at least buttons/zip to undo. Just musing did it happen in oak road or the park.....what were the events in those few minutes from Haworth st to oak road?
I know it’s an odd thing to focus on but I always think this when reading about murder investigations-what was happening in those few minutes?

 

[JosieJo]

The verdict is always the time I most think about the family..even if they get the best result possible i think I'd be lost ...at least running up to the trial there is something to focus on