UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[JosieJo]

True, I'm just saying the screaming occurred 12.15 earliest (SA), 12.30ish (Claremont residents) latest. PR drove off at 12.19 and says he left Libby outside the park. So she had to get way up the park to where the screaming occurred inside a maximum of 11 minutes ish.

Problem is the timings of the screams do not fit any scenario

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Humberside Police officer Adam Richardson had jumped into the water after being called to the scene at around 5.55am on April 11, 2017.

He said: “It was cold, I go to the gym and lift weights and the water had even took my breath away.”

Based purely on this quote from the Hull Daily Mail, I cannot see that Libby would have been screaming in the river

Mum drowned in River Hull after losing job as Tesco pharmacist
Donna Ijeoma Egemonye, 47, died after being found in the River Hull near Kingswood
www.hulldailymail.co.uk

 

[tedtink]

Yep. That's my issue. At 12.15 PR says he's at the side of the road with Libby

So who screamed?

Why didn't he hear the scream.?

Why did Libby go into a dark park where she'd heard someone scream?

How did she get there so quickly.

Who was the man that wore similar trousers to PR.

Why wasn't Libby found in the middle of the parks

And why walk into a dark park, if you'd just seen him drive off?

 

[JosieJo]

True, I'm just saying the screaming occurred 12.15 earliest (SA), 12.30ish (Claremont residents) latest. PR drove off at 12.19 and says he left Libby outside the park. So she had to get way up the park to where the screaming occurred inside a maximum of 11 minutes ish.

Problem is the timings of the screams do not fit any scenario

Yep. That's my issue. At 12.15 PR says he's at the side of the road with Libby

So who screamed?

Why didn't he hear the scream.?

Why did Libby go into a dark park where she'd heard someone scream?

How did she get there so quickly.

Who was the man that wore similar trousers to PR.

Why wasn't Libby found in the middle of the parks

The problem with the screams they do not fit any scenarios exactly to the second so nothing ..not even the prosecution version is possible if we take the times as gospel to the second

 

[JosieJo]

And why walk into a dark park, if you'd just seen him drive off?

Why did she not go home ? Why did she go to another house ? Why sit on the floor ? Why ask passers by to lie on the floor with her ...how can it be ignored that she was so unwell and vulnerable at that time anything is possible

 

[Dotta]

I always think of Colonel Russell (Williams?) when I think of PR’s prior offending, they are very similar in their voyeurism and calling cards etc. Colonel Russell also went on to rape and kill.

Colonel was much older, wasn't he?

 

[tedtink]

Why did she not go home ? Why did she go to another house ? Why sit on the floor ? Why ask passers by to lie on the floor with her ...how can it be ignored that she was so unwell and vulnerable at that time anything is possible

It was a rhetorical question, following on from @Newthoughts post.

 

[elliefant]

Colonel was much older, wasn't he?

Yes. My comparison was in the nature of his offending.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Humberside Police officer Adam Richardson had jumped into the water after being called to the scene at around 5.55am on April 11, 2017.

He said: “It was cold, I go to the gym and lift weights and the water had even took my breath away.”

Based purely on this quote from the Hull Daily Mail, I cannot see that Libby would have been screaming in the river

Mum drowned in River Hull after losing job as Tesco pharmacist
Donna Ijeoma Egemonye, 47, died after being found in the River Hull near Kingswood
www.hulldailymail.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

Why did she not go home ? Why did she go to another house ? Why sit on the floor ? Why ask passers by to lie on the floor with her ...how can it be ignored that she was so unwell and vulnerable at that time anything is possible

Josie I agree with every word you say. You would be an excellent defence lawyer with passion and patience in searching the truth.

 

[JosieJo]

Josie I agree with every word you say. You would be an excellent defence lawyer with passion and patience in searching the truth.

Thank you ..in truth I'm a terrible devils advocate who desperately tries to look at both sides no matter what my personal feelings are ...not always successfully though

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Thank you ..in truth I'm a terrible devils advocate who desperately tries to look at both sides no matter what my personal feelings are ...not always successfully though

What do you think happened Josie? If you care to share ofc

 

[Jarvis1969]

I know, I live there. This wasn’t in the centre of York, but rather out in the countryside and did not involve alcohol but rather someone familiar with the slopes of the riverbank at dusk who slipped. Locals could maybe compare banks (the photo shows what the riverbanks are like along that stretch)

Do you not think that he is mentioning the knickers as he seems to have a real fetish about knickers & seem to have appeared in all his previous crimes? Just a thought.

 

[tigerowl]

I take your point and should have clarified in my post that you would need to ask not only if Libby could make it from the road to the river, but do so fairly quickly...she'd have to be fairly quick to get there in time to start screaming by the time the witnesses report hearing them...max 11 minutes, minimum 0 minutes depending on which witness you go with. In other words she does have as you say all night to fall in the river but she she doesn't have long to get near it and start screaming.

Libby could have easily got to the river during those 11 mins. But the point is, she doesn't have to had. Just because the screaming stopped doesn't have to mean she was in the river then. She had plenty of time to stumble there, getting more and more disorientated and upset.

@JosieJo I agree with you too. I find it strange that PRs behaviour is being super analysed but the fact that Libby presented in such a way as you describe is barely being considered.

I find it more believable that the state Libby was in could have got her into the river than the quite rapid escalation in PRs behaviour leading to murder. Even if it did, I find it completely unbelievable that he in the middle of all that had the presence of mind to act so quickly and efficiently that he managed to then dispose of her body without leaving a trace of either of them ever being in the park in a timeframe that the prosecution don't really want to bring attention to.

As I have said before, this is just my opinion and I still think PR is a piece of **** that should go to prison for a long time. I think he took her from safety and put her in a position that led to her death but if I had only heard the evidence that is in the public domain I could not say guilty to murder. Hopefully, the jury has heard much more and Libby's family will get some of the peace they deserve.

 

[Alyce]

Would the jury be permitted to find PR guilty of manslaughter if there was not enough evidence he had put Libby in the river but enough evidence to show by taking her to ORPF he had put her in grave danger with resulting death? I remember someone posted that manslaughter had not been put on the table but are the jury still allowed to find PR guilty of manslaughter?

No, the Jury can’t introduce a charge which is not listed. If the judge does not include manslaughter in her road map to them, then they only have the murder charge to vote on.

 

[Newthoughts]

Problem is the timings of the screams do not fit any scenario

SAs screams do

 

[Jarvis1969]

Respectfully snipped by me.


....left her safe and well, she must have just fallen in the river, that's her bad luck, hardly his fault, he's not her dad, he's not responsible for her,

I wonder if PR said something very similar to his barrister when discussing his case.

Who said this?

 

[Skigh]

No, the Jury can’t introduce a charge which is not listed. If the judge does not include manslaughter in her road map to them, then they only have the murder charge to vote on.

If the jury cannot come to an unanimous or majority verdict for murder,could she then introduce the option for manslaughter?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Who said this?

The poster immediately above @Skigh's post.

 

[Newthoughts]

Libby could have easily got to the river during those 11 mins. But the point is, she doesn't have to had. Just because the screaming stopped doesn't have to mean she was in the river then. She had plenty of time to stumble there, getting more and more disorientated and upset.

@JosieJo I agree with you too. I find it strange that PRs behaviour is being super analysed but the fact that Libby presented in such a way as you describe is barely being considered.

I find it more believable that the state Libby was in could have got her into the river than the quite rapid escalation in PRs behaviour leading to murder. Even if it did, I find it completely unbelievable that he in the middle of all that had the presence of mind to act so quickly and efficiently that he managed to then dispose of her body without leaving a trace of either of them ever being in the park in a timeframe that the prosecution don't really want to bring attention to.

As I have said before, this is just my opinion and I still think PR is a piece of **** that should go to prison for a long time. I think he took her from safety and put her in a position that led to her death but if I had only heard the evidence that is in the public domain I could not say guilty to murder. Hopefully, the jury has heard much more and Libby's family will get some of the peace they deserve.

I would have said as a sober man he'd have been far better at getting rid of evidence

As for not analysing Libby? We have her private medical records and an expert in hypothermia detailing what her behaviour was likely to be. Her blood alcohol level. PRs defence has got everything relevant to that evening.

Don't forget everything happening to PR is because of his choices. He chose to take a vulnerable girl from a busy street. Nobody forced him.

He chose to rape her. Nobody forced him.

Despite ample opportunities to tell the truth he chose to lie, lie and lie again.

He chose to terrorise women before that.

His choices!