UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[jamjim]

11:53
Libby could have acted in a 'reckless way' and 'wanted to express her torment', defence says

“Alcohol and the effects on her. Her boyfriend said: ‘She didn’t really understand moderation and became a much more confident person.'

“In early 2019 she was a young woman with mental health issues that had surfaced as early as the New Year.

"Who was perfectly capable of acting in a way that was reckless, and capable of committing some dreadful and life-threatening way because she didn’t care and wanted to express her torment.

"Who had harboured thoughts of suicide and couldn’t cope with abandonment and rejection and in her worst moments would have felt little self-worth.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

 

[Vera_dci]

Defence saying that it would be a big step up to murder and rape by PR .I call bs on the defence statement. His previous offences suggest that's exactly where he was headed IMO.

Edited by me after further evidence presented by defence.

 

[HullGirl72]

I’m sorry but no
She wouldn’t have just killed her self in a place far from her family without telling anyone.
The other times were cries for help.

 

[jamjim]

11:53
Trial has paused

There will now be a short break in proceedings.

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

 

[jamjim]

I can't even imagine how her parents feel having to listen to all that Awful.

 

[mrjitty]

10:47
Relowicz 'lied and lied' - but that does not mean he is guilty, defence says

Mr Saxby says he will examine the evidence over the next few hours which is “what all those connected with the case deserve.”

He says he will look at the relevant evidence, the prosecution theories and what the evidence actually establishes and does not establish.

Mr Saxby said: “The reality number one is that Pawel Relowicz has lied and lied and lied to himself, his wife, the police and in court documents. There is no doubt guilty people lie - to get away with it - but lying is not the exclusive preserve of the guilty.

“Sometimes, those who are not lie. They lie because they’re scared and worry they won’t be believed because they’re young or naive and they don’t recognise the significance of lying and the jeopardy that may face them because they don’t want to admit something they have done despite raising suspicion.”

Libby Squire murder trial live updates: Defence give closing speech

This is my favourite genre of defence nonsense

Just because my client got up and lied to you about what happened that night, doesn't mean he is hiding what really happened that night!

 

[mrjitty]

10:53
Defence outlines reasons why Relowicz may have lied

Mr Saxby said: “How best to approach liars? The key is to look at the reasons he is lying. In the context of this case:

1. A lie told to hide his past behaviour.
2. A lie told because he shouldn’t have had sex with Libby Squire with the state she was in.
3. He wanted to conceal the fact he had had sex with her.
4. To make it look like it was all down to Libby Squire
5. A lie told because he was worried how it would look that he had had sex with her and left her there.

“Two more: A lie because he knew he had raped her, and a lie because he knew he had killed her.

“In the event of the first six, these aren’t lies, in the last two, if you’re convinced they’re to conceal guilt you have to consider, did he lie because he raped and/or killed her and he wanted to conceal that?

“He lied, but please be careful in taking the obvious shortcut and simply saying: ‘He lied so he has to be guilty of all counts.’ Check there isn’t an innocent reason, and if you decide he lied to conceal guilt, look at why.”

Libby Squire murder trial live updates: Defence give closing speech

And so begins the "maybe he even raped her" defence

Maybe he raped her and lied about everything!

 

[HullGirl72]

I can't even imagine how her parents feel having to listen to all that Awful.

It truly is
Even though they’d have been briefed this would happen it must be terrible to actually hear it.
That’s all his defence can do, use Libby to make her look bad.
Disgusting.

 

[tedtink]

A cry for help is a subconscious need for attention or help, meaning you expect to be found or discovered in order to receive that help.
I can't see how jumping in a river in the dark, away from people, would be a 'cry for help' however he try's to explain it.

 

[mrjitty]

The defence is throwing their client under the bus as regards to rape, don't you think? I think they see the rape charge as unavoidable and are concentrating on getting him off the murder charge.

" The law imposes strict rules where a man has sex with someone seriously affected by drink. She was not someone he should have been having sex with for a host of reasons or someone he should have been leaving on her own at night in the state she was in."

Yes - they are saying he raped her, and maybe murdered her, but you can't be sure he did.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I hope the defense adds more than just PR is a silly liar and Libby is a mentally unstable suicidal girl. I hope they try to discuss the timing and such because if not and I was on the jury I would be offended by the “boys will be boys” and “girls are hysterical” vibe I am getting.
MOO - My opinion only

 

[Steve2021]

11:17
Relowicz would have had 'ample opportunity' to assault someone before - but didn't, defence says

Mr Saxby said: “As of February 1, 2019, Pawel Relowicz had been living in Hull for a number of years. For a large proportion of this time he had been living in or near Raglan Street, in a student area. His problem wouldn’t have suddenly appeared and he admits he has committed other acts of voyeurism not detected by police.

“Is the prosecution seriously saying that in those eight years or so he hasn’t had a chance to physically or sexually assault someone? Of course not - there would have been ample opportunity.

“Looking at the evidence, and asking yourselves the awkward questions - what do these prove? If he is the person they say why is there no evidence of him having done this and that? Why do we not see signs of this in the internet or whatever?”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

I think Mr Saxby has been doing a good job, as I'd expect, but I think suggesting the jury should think PR hasn't done it on this occasion because he's had 8 years already to do it is unbelievably lame and will make him look desperate or stupid in the jury's eyes.

 

[HullGirl72]

His loving husband defence doesn’t work.
This is the man who was a father to two very young children, one still up for night feeds, who went out without his phone on a night for hours on end, while his wife managed alone.
He should’ve been in bed beside her helping with night feeds.
What if there was an emergency? He had no phone with him.

 

[Zazie]

Agree. We seem to be seeing a different Libby being presented. Not the tipsy student but someone with severe mental health issues. The one thing that does spring to my mind with regards to this is the amount of witnesses who described Libby screaming. To me it seemed strange; I've seen a lot of drunks and they do a lot of strange things but constant screaming has always seemed odd to me. And I guess the mental health history and her mum's statements are relevant here.

Totally agree with you about the screaming which does suggest more than mere inebriation. However I think defence's heavy emphasis on Libby's mental fragility could backfire .The crucial bit they - naturally - keep skimming over, is that this suicidal girl who desired nothing more than to throw herself into a river that night, didn't make her own way there. She just sat freezing at a bus stop on a main road, until PR showed up, drove her straight to a quiet spot and raped her.

If someone is mentally ill to the point where they are screaming in the street, then you choose to rape that person and as a consequence they fling themselves in a river and drown themselves like Ophelia in Hamlet, I'd believe you played a pretty major role in their death.

(I like that phrase, 'defence nonsense', @mrjitty! Another brand seems to be, 'Sure, OK, my client probably raped her but how was he meant to know she was crazy and suicidal?")

 

[Newthoughts]

Remind me again whose on trial here?

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Libby was almost home. She hadn't tried to harm herself on her way home, so why are the defence trying to make out she was suicidal that night? She could have walked out in traffic if she was suicidal, she was just trying to get home. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

This is a weird argument, don't you think? They are saying that he can't be a rapist and murderer in this case because he never took the opportunity to rape and murder anyone in the past? His DNA was found in Libby - he clearly did assault someone on this occasion, if not in the past.

Yep. Weak sauce

 

[tedtink]

Totally agree with you about the screaming which does suggest more than mere inebriation. However I think defence's heavy emphasis on Libby's mental fragility could backfire .The crucial bit they - naturally - keep skimming over, is that this suicidal girl who desired nothing more than to throw herself into a river that night, didn't make her own way there. She just sat freezing at a bus stop on a main road, until PR showed up, drove her straight to a quiet spot and raped her.

If someone is mentally ill to the point where they are screaming in the street, then you choose to rape that person and as a consequence they fling themselves in a river and drown themselves like Ophelia in Hamlet, I'd believe you played a pretty major role in their death.

(I like that phrase, 'defence nonsense', @mrjitty! Another brand seems to be, 'Sure, OK, my client probably raped her but how was he meant to know she was crazy and suicidal?")

Absolutely!

 

[Vera_dci]

Sending strength to the Squires and libbys partner. This must be incredibly hard to hear.

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Remind me again whose on trial here?

Horrible isn't it? Reminds me of when Grace Millane's killer was on trial. JMO