UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[Steve2021]

May I also say to HLC35 and those other of you who have written about difficult personal experiences thank you and please don't apologise for doing so or for doing so at length. I have found them all interesting and informative and I am sure everyone here has felt the same.

 

[JosieJo]

Newthoughts said....If I'd had to defend the creep I'd have bulls@@@@@d along the lines of PR didn't realise what effect it was having, he was mortified etc rather than diminishing what his victims went thru. Still be a lie but better than that

Can't disagree with that. We've not heard anything suggesting PR feels remotely bad about anything he did or the fact that Libby is dead. As someone said, he seems completely detached. I don't expect him to incriminate himself or apologise for something he didn't do but it is disturbing if he really doesn't care.

I agree from what we have read there has been nothing at all to show any remorse ..

 

[Happygirlie2003]

I’m still intrigued as to how PR duped Libby into getting into his car considering she was so against taking help from many others. I’m convinced he must have pretended to be a private cab driver only my opinion

 

[Cherwell]

I'm wondering if anyone can come up with a credible reason why a man would be walking through the playing fields after midnight on a freezing January night. I can't see any way that it could be a short cut home from the pub or a friend's house, or anything like that. But locals may know different.
If not, then it was 99.9% it was PR.

 

[tigerowl]

Probably just persistence. The others had nothing to gain. They just wanted to help her so when she resisted they gave up. He had other motives so was probably far more insistent and cajoling.

 

[tedtink]

Probably just persistence. The others had nothing to gain. They just wanted to help her so when she resisted they gave up. He had other motives so was probably far more insistent and cajoling.

Makes me wonder what he said to be persistent. "Taxi, home, address, car, look, lights"?
I didn't think he could speak English very well.
I wished someone could have testified on his grasp of the English language.
JM O

 

[JosieJo]

I'm wondering if anyone can come up with a credible reason why a man would be walking through the playing fields after midnight on a freezing January night. I can't see any way that it could be a short cut home from the pub or a friend's house, or anything like that. But locals may know different.
If not, then it was 99.9% it was PR.

Not being local to me I'd say its extremely unlikely it wasn't him

 

[porkypies]

But the taxi dropped her right outside her home. Her flatmate was in. It doesn't make sense that she didn't ring the bell if no key, or stay at the other student house until her friends returned. It has never made any sense to me that instead, she wandered up and down Beverley Road, sobbing, screaming, shouting and lying in the snow.

I think that might have been explained for the first time in today's summing up, she had had a falling out with a flatmate E, and if I recall correctly, E was the person who stayed home that evening, so would have been home when Libby was dropped off by the taxi.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I'm wondering if anyone can come up with a credible reason why a man would be walking through the playing fields after midnight on a freezing January night. I can't see any way that it could be a short cut home from the pub or a friend's house, or anything like that. But locals may know different.
If not, then it was 99.9% it was PR.

I don’t know but my grown daughter finishes work some shifts at 10.00pm. She will commute home, have something to eat and relax and then go for a run in the early hours. We live in a rural village and she will still see people put and about at that time, she often heads to the commons
Fields as she feels more vulnerable out in the roads and footpaths. There are numerous reasons why someone would be out walking at 12.30am even in parks etc.

 

[Steve2021]

I'm wondering if anyone can come up with a credible reason why a man would be walking through the playing fields after midnight on a freezing January night. I can't see any way that it could be a short cut home from the pub or a friend's house, or anything like that. But locals may know different.
If not, then it was 99.9% it was PR.

There must have been loads of evidence we've not heard. You don't need to be Rumpole of the Bailey to think of asking SA to describe him, ask him if he looked like PR, show him the clothing PR was wearing and ask him if that could have been what he saw and so on. It would hardly be left at, so you saw a man, he had jeans and a jacket, yes, thank you, I've no further questions. Likewise surely someone asked the police witness questions about him, whether they'd tried to find him etc.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I think that might have been explained for the first time in today's summing up, she had had a falling out with a flatmate E, and if I recall correctly, E was the person who stayed home that evening, so would have been home when Libby was dropped off by the taxi.

I think everything mentioned today has been discussed, but just not reported before today. We didn’t hear lots of the agreed facts for example as they won’t have been read out, but shared with the jury beforehand.

 

[Ruthbullock]

There must have been loads of evidence we've not heard. You don't need to be Rumpole of the Bailey to think of asking SA to describe him, ask him if he looked like PR, show him the clothing PR was wearing and ask him if that could have been what he saw and so on. It would hardly be left at, so you saw a man, he had jeans and a jacket, yes, thank you, I've no further questions.

Agreed- an interesting snippet I think I picked up on today, but doubting myself now - did he have to lean at the window to try and see out?

 

[Dotta]

I agree from what we have read there has been nothing at all to show any remorse ..

But didn't we all agree that PR is a psychopath? It is like to expect a stone to shed tears.

 

[Cherwell]

I don’t know but my grown daughter finishes work some shifts at 10.00pm. She will commute home, have something to eat and relax and then go for a run in the early hours. We live in a rural village and she will still see people put and about at that time, she often heads to the commons
Fields as she feels more vulnerable out in the roads and footpaths. There are numerous reasons why someone would be out walking at 12.30am even in parks etc.

I'd buy that if he had actually been running, as in running for exercise but it seems he wasn't.
My point is that it doesn't seem to be on the way back from anywhere.

 

[tigerowl]

Re could it be someone else walking through the park.

I am very local to ORPF and I think it is unlikely but not impossible. It isn't really a cut through. You could have come in right at the other end of the playing fields and walked through or cut through from coming over Sutton Road bridge and using the river track as a short cut and coming into the park that way. You would have to be super familiar with that route though to want to do it in the dark on a snowy, icy night- but people do.

Another local poster has mentioned that this is a hotspot for drug dealing (although that's not my bag so I wasn't aware) so there is a possibility people are using the park late at night and coming in from all angles for that kind of activity. This would also make sense why if it was someone else, they didn't come forward to the police to identify themselves.

All tenuous and highly unlikely but not impossible it could have been someone else.

 

[Steve2021]

Not being local to me I'd say its extremely unlikely it wasn't him

That'd be my view. If it's not I'd be seriously worrying there is a killer on the loose, and given the scream timings possibly another girl went in the river that night as well as Libby, and I'd damn well want the police to have been investigating that. If they're not and if the defence haven't made a real big deal of it I'd think that's because they know or believe it's him.

 

[tedtink]

But didn't we all agree that PR is a psychopath? It is like to expect a stone to shed tears.

Not all of us agreed, no

 

[Steve2021]

Agreed- an interesting snippet I think I picked up on today, but doubting myself now - did he have to lean at the window to try and see out?

I'm not sure about that. I could certainly be wrong so don't rely on it but I think I read somewhere he pressed himself against the window.

 

[Newthoughts]

May I also say to HLC35 and those other of you who have written about difficult personal experiences thank you and please don't apologise for doing so or for doing so at length. I have found them all interesting and informative and I am sure everyone here has felt the same.

I'll second that. It helps just reiterate that it isn't a harmless joke. It's menacing

 

[HLC35]

Thank you @Steve2021. My heart goes out to all the other people on this forum who have had awful experiences at the hands of others, and to those who have been through depression. That is the just bravest thing.

This is the 4th time I have been harassed by someone I do not know, over 20 years. Each time I’ve felt threatened and unsafe. Each time I’ve received comments such as ‘just be flattered’ or ‘he doesn’t mean any harm’. Wrong. First time I was sexually assaulted in my place of work by the manager, second a random who I viewed a room of whilst house hunting at university and who then stalked me, the third time receiving disgustingly sexual threatening letters posted to me (turned out from the manager of a children’s charity I worked for). Both managers were fired from their jobs but no criminal record given.

My point is these people were prepared to cross boundaries, and hopefully ‘pesting’ me (as someone once put it), is all they’ll ever do, but I’m not naive or arrogant enough to think it was just ever me sadly. It’s terrifying that some people are so ‘comfortable’ to harass others, whilst often being family men too. That clearly means nothing.

PR was well into his sexual deviance and crimes when he met Libby. Even that irritates me; he didn’t meet her, he watched and stalked her. He hadn’t just messaged someone at work a few times and been rebuffed (that we know of). And they are not petty crimes at all that he has since been charged with. The ‘jump’ for him to a far graver crime was sadly inevitable. I agree that the simple lack of remorse or even shock that she was a) missing and b) found dead after he was the last person to see her is damning in itself. moo