UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[JosieJo]

You can never be sure you to be reasonably sure and that means what is most likely given the evidence

For some reason the judge tells you to be sure

 

[Lyall0814]

Blimey

Prosecution's been reading your posts

 

[Sarahjo]

out in 10 years or less

But it’s a better option than just a not guilty of murder, and if they are sure there’s enough to convict of murder they still can. this is like a safety net so he doesn’t completely get away with causing her death.

 

[JusticeDT]

Thank you jamjim

 

[Steve2021]

The ongoing screams don't tally with death caused during rape - if he was raping her at 12:17 what had he been doing there since 12:11?

None of the scream witnesses help the prosecution's case, it's not just eliminating the Claremont witnesses. IMO

I think the suggestion was he raped her in the park, which I think is overwhelmingly the most probable, and that he left her in a bad way in there and ran off either when she screamed or before her first scream.

 

[Joolz1975]

out in 10 years or less

I know! Awful thought really but still a better option than not guilty of murder which was I suppose a possibility with the evidence not as conclusive as would have hoped.

I thought she might have let them deliberate the murder first before giving the manslaughter option.

He will see manslaughter as a victory wont he because it will only mean an extra few years on his current sentence.

 

[Steve2021]

The ongoing screams don't tally with death caused during rape - if he was raping her at 12:17 what had he been doing there since 12:11?

None of the scream witnesses help the prosecution's case, it's not just eliminating the Claremont witnesses. IMO

I think the suggestion was he raped her in the park, which I think is overwhelmingly the most probable, and that he left her in a bad way in there and ran off either when she screamed or before her first scream.

 

[Tortoise]

They're sitting until 4:30pm. I don't reckon they'll be back today. Or will they?

Lawpages should get an alarm bell for when a verdict has been reached so we don't have to sit glued to the media updates.

Sheffield Crown Court 1 T20207204
Pawel Piotr Relowicz
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Summing Up - 10:34
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:00 - 12:53
Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 13:59
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:15 - 14:08
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 16:30 - 14:43

 

[JosieJo]

14:38
Manslaughter verdict an option

Justice Lambert has told the jury it has occurred to her manslaughter is an option for the verdict but it has not been explained.

She said: “There is no count of manslaughter on the indictment but it can be returned as an alternative verdict to murder.

“That would arise if you were sure Pawel Relowicz assaulted Libby Squire and it caused her death in the sense it made one or more contributions to her death and whether he intended it to.

"If the answer is no, the verdict will be not guilty of murder but you should consider whether that person intended to cause some harm and then if you are sure of that you will return a guilty verdict of manslaughter."

Libby Squire murder trial updates as judge sums up evidence

It has "occurred to her" odd

 

[Newthoughts]

I'd say he could have frog-marched her into the park with his hand over her mouth. Say 3-4 minutes getting her near the lake where she was heard, so that he won't be seen out of windows.

Rapes her and then she starts to scream and continues screaming as he walks away.

MOO

IMO if PR had forwarded that argument it would have made me consider misadventure more seriously.

But PR didn't forward it, stupidly IMO, so I don't think it's up for consideration.

 

[JusticeDT]

They're sitting until 4:30pm. I don't reckon they'll be back today. Or will they?

Lawpages should get an alarm bell for when a verdict has been reached so we don't have to sit glued to the media updates.

Sheffield Crown Court 1 T20207204
Pawel Piotr Relowicz
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Summing Up - 10:34
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:00 - 12:53
Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 13:59
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:15 - 14:08
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 16:30 - 14:43

No, I really dont think they will be back today

 

[elliefant]

Well done @jamjim and thank you.

I’m glad to see manslaughter on the table.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

It has "occurred to her" odd

Yes I found this wording odd as well.

 

[HLC35]

It is such a tragedy that with all the evidence the LE had (back in 2016 through to 2019) of an unidentified sexual predator (PR); the witness statements, the physical descriptions (an extremely good likeness one housemate drew in IMO), the neighbours knowledge, and even local hearsay, they could not tie it all together UNTIL a young woman died. That’s where I fully empathise with the frustration of knowing you’ve reported something awful that you’ve been subjected to, and yet sadly often is the case that nothing is/can be done in the ‘early days’ of harassment.

A genuine question (and I do believe that the LE acted swiftly and worked tirelessly to bring this case to court, as well as clearly providing wonderful support to Libby’s parents during an unimaginable time), but does anyone think there may/should be an inquiry into why PR was not already off the streets? Jmo.

 

[Newthoughts]

out in 10 years or less

Yep and free to kill again. Which he will!

 

[Sera]

If the jury don't reach a verdict today, I really hope they do by the end of tomorrow. I don't think I can cope with waiting over the weekend. This trial, with all its postponements and delays, is really opening my eyes to what agony it must be for the loved ones involved. If this is how I feel...

 

[Tortoise]

IMO if PR had forwarded that argument it would have made me consider misadventure more seriously.

But PR didn't forward it, stupidly IMO, so I don't think it's up for consideration.

They don't have to believe his version to find they aren't sure about the murder charge though.

 

[Niner]

14:43
Jury retiring to consider its verdict

The jury is now being sworn out and members will now consider their verdict.

Libby Squire murder trial updates as judge sums up evidence

So that was about 4:45pm my time (Eastern European) - so making it 2:45pm UK time - correct?

 

[Alyce]

I know! Awful thought really but still a better option than not guilty of murder which was I suppose a possibility with the evidence not as conclusive as would have hoped.

I thought she might have let them deliberate the murder first before giving the manslaughter option.

He will see manslaughter as a victory wont he because it will only mean an extra few years on his current sentence.

Oh he will absolutely. He will be smirking all the way back to his prison cell.

I find it so disappointing that the Judge is offering this option now, rather than waiting to see if the Jury can reach a guilty of murder verdict ( which I believe they could have done ). I think having the lighter option available might make them waver and give him the lower charge.
I find it so sad, and I don't think this is justice for Libby. As Mrazda said, he is the reason she is dead and not setting up home with her boyfriend and enjoying her first job, post university. He is the reason her family will never see her marry or have children or travel round the world or achieve something wonderful in her work life.
I do hope we deport him back to Poland as soon as his sentence is finished. And, equally, I feel very sorry for the Polish people who will be faced with this vile predator in their lives.

 

[JosieJo]

How will the sentence be calculated for rape and manslaughter? I thought rape could in some circumstances be given life?