Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest*

[CrimeDawg123]

I'd say on the balance of probabilities, absolutely no chance.

Yeah I tend to agree. Unless you're on a very large industrial machine I'd think you'd know you hit something, but even then...

 

[Angleterre]

I fully expected to wake up this morning (here in the states) to a press conference having occurred with an ID of the body. For the discovery to be made Sat PM and by Monday noon still no announcement? Wow, this is really bad.

Without being really graphic, it was reported as an ‘object ‘ found which leaves us all pondering what that means. If it’s a body part or parts, who is to say that all body parts are actually together in the same location and therefore, if and it’s only my workings of my mind, if it’s the case that not all body parts are in the same location, then obviously that can hinder ID. It will then be a case of DNA testing and with the best will in the world, the body is already deceased and whoever it is and whichever family needs to be informed, the lab will only be open as normal on a Monday, not the weekend. Add into that is the fact that first a HO Pathologist has to be appointed and may wish to see the scene before he or she conducts the PM ( likely to be HO Pathologist DR Paul Johnson or Dr Brian Rodgers or Dr Alison Armour who all cover that area ) and it may be that other specialists have to be brought in too (ie entomologist and topography expert ) plus its a national holiday today Monday 26/8 in the UK so the lab will be open but working with reduced staffing capacity and hours .... so we have to be patient and also it’s most important that any family members of the deceased are notified first. It may not be Lindsay ( god willing) and it may not yet be known who that family that needs to be informed are or able to be informed as of yet . There are lots of ponderables and reasons as to why we may not yet know this information.
Edited to add - there was a case up the coast from this area whereby Mitchell Quy murdered his girlfriend and cut up her body into parts which he disposed of in different locations. Not all parts were found and accounted for making the initial ID very difficult and time consuming
FURTHER EDITED- I was still catching up on the posts when I wrote this. I am so sorry to hear that it is Lindsay. RIP

 

[Smccat]

Sorry why has it been a ‘balls up’?

Because foul play was never entertained as a possibility. I’ve followed so many cases and hear words of “keeping an open mind at this stage” etc and everything seemed so calm insofar as she seemed to just take off of her own accord and no reason whatsoever to think otherwise

 

[Smccat]

I'd say on the balance of probabilities, absolutely no chance.

Agreed.

 

[Skigh]

Because foul play was never entertained as a possibility. I’ve followed so many cases and hear words of “keeping an open mind at this stage” etc and everything seemed so calm insofar as she seemed to just take off of her own accord and no reason whatsoever to think otherwise

The police were out searching.They checked cctv and went door to door. They probably were also checking out other things such as her phone usage.I am not sure what else you expected them to do.

 

[Angleterre]

Another question on my mind - If they have not yet carried out a post mortem, how do they know it's murder?

Possibly because the body is in parts ? MOO

 

[Smccat]

The police were out searching.They checked cctv and went door to door. They probably were also checking out other things such as her phone usage.I am not sure what else you expected them to do.

It was the overall vibe and procedure to me felt like LE were working on purely one conclusion MOO

 

[Rosegold68]

Because foul play was never entertained as a possibility. I’ve followed so many cases and hear words of “keeping an open mind at this stage” etc and everything seemed so calm insofar as she seemed to just take off of her own accord and no reason whatsoever to think otherwise

yes foull play will absolutely have been a possibility....massively so....with the LE!
the public like to 'do' the fluffy stuff like organise searches and vigils whilst police in the background will be doing the hardcore investigating. I 100% know this! also the reporting is usually restricted to consider family/friends. so i still don't see the ;balls up' here....at all

 

[Angleterre]

Because foul play was never entertained as a possibility. I’ve followed so many cases and hear words of “keeping an open mind at this stage” etc and everything seemed so calm insofar as she seemed to just take off of her own accord and no reason whatsoever to think otherwise

You don’t know what was and what wasn’t entertained unless you were the SIO in charge of the investigation or on the investigation team. When something of this magnitude happens, every SIO MUST open a ‘policy log book ‘ which details every decision made and every action taken and also everything that has been considered but ruled out at that stage . So respectfully, you can’t know this for a fact.

 

[Skigh]

DBM

 

[Angleterre]

yes foull play will absolutely have been a possibility....massively so....with the LE!
the public like to 'do' the fluffy stuff like organise searches and vigils whilst police in the background will be doing the hardcore investigating. I 100% know this! also the reporting is usually restricted to consider family/friends. so i still don't see the ;balls up' here....at all

Thank you for stating this fellow retired LE . I’m Merpol - are you Lanpol/Lancro?

 

[Skigh]

Thank you for stating this fellow retired LE . I’m Merpol - are you Lanpol/Lancro?

Glad we have some expert knowledge here.
why would the police say an object found rather than human remains or body parts.
I have never heard that term before even when it has been a dismembered body.

 

[CharlestonGal]

"Tribute/vigil
Organisers behind the Facebook group aiming to find Lindsay are planning a way for the public to be able to show condolences.

When we have more details on this we will make them available."

Updates: Police believe they have found body of Lindsay Birbeck

 

[Smccat]

yes foull play will absolutely have been a possibility....massively so....with the LE!
the public like to 'do' the fluffy stuff like organise searches and vigils whilst police in the background will be doing the hardcore investigating. I 100% know this! also the reporting is usually restricted to consider family/friends. so i still don't see the ;balls up' here....at all

Okay - im Sorry don’t mean to offend anyone I just have to agree to disagree. The public have been awesome and that cemetery has been searched by LE and members of the community alike from what I’ve read

 

[BarkingRosebud]

Do you think it is possible that Lindsay was accidentally killed by someone using the grass cutter?

No I don’t i think this is deliberately murder from the police slant statement

 

[CharlestonGal]

No I don’t i think this is deliberately murder from the police slant statement

I agree. To announce a murder inquiry is some pretty serious business. They must have significant evidence of out and out murder to make than announcement.

 

[Angleterre]

Glad we have some expert knowledge here.
why would the police say an object found rather than human remains or body parts.
I have never heard that term before even when it has been a dismembered body.

I’m not quite sure to be honest but maybe it was less graphic than body parts and the fear of crime is always greater than the actual act itself and although this is horrendous and one murder is one too many, it really is super rare that a stranger murder does in fact occur so maybe they were downplaying it for that reason, so the public hysteria didn’t get out of hand. Or it could be that they have / had an evidential lead so that they didn’t want to confirm that a body or parts thereof had been found just yet .... or it could be at that time they found say a mobile phone in a bag with a wrapped foot in a shoe or something and really wasn’t sure what they actually had so rather than be factually incorrect and inaccurate, they played it safe . It is unusual in description but they are my best guesses . By the way , I’m not saying a foot in a shoe and a phone was found, I’m using it as an example.
Edited to add:
Also the information came in as a body part wrapped in plastic and looked like a body part but an assumption cannot be made until the item has been removed as an exhibit of a crime scene ( detached and clinical I do apologise) and until it is transported as part of a chain of evidence to the HO Pathologist lab at the Royal Liverpool hospital, then it cannot be touched or unwrapped until the Pathologist does so. This is to prevent any contamination or loss of potential evidence. So for that reason it may be that they erred on the side of caution too. All JMOO

 

[Skigh]

I’m not quite sure to be honest but maybe it was less graphic than body parts and the fear of crime is always greater than the actual act itself and although this is horrendous and one murder is one too many, it really is super rare that a stranger murder does in fact occur so maybe they were downplaying it for that reason, so the public hysteria didn’t get out of hand. Or it could be that they have / had an evidential lead so that they didn’t want to confirm that a body or parts thereof had been found just yet .... or it could be at that time they found say a mobile phone in a bag with a wrapped foot in a shoe or something and really wasn’t sure what they actually had so rather than be factually incorrect and inaccurate, they played it safe . It is unusual in description but they are my best guesses . By the way , I’m not saying a foot in a shoe and a phone was found, I’m using it as an example.
Edited to add:
Also the information came in as a body part wrapped in plastic and looked like a body part but an assumption cannot be made until the item has been removed as an exhibit of a crime scene ( detached and clinical I do apologise) and until it is transported as part of a chain of evidence to the HO Pathologist lab at the Royal Liverpool hospital, then it cannot be touched or unwrapped until the Pathologist does so. This is to prevent any contamination or loss of potential evidence. So for that reason it may be that they erred on the side of caution too. All JMOO

Thank you for your informative reply.

 

[Angleterre]

Thank you for your informative reply.

You are more than welcome. If I can answer any questions without giving away trade secrets then I am willing to do so but it must be stressed that it is only my own opinion and not that as representative of any Police investigation. This is about 30 miles away from my jurisdiction so it’s quite on my doorstep really in terms of the investigative process used and officers from Lancashire and Merseyside train as SIO’s ( senior investigative officers ) together so police policy and procedures are the same hence why I can reliably say what they are.

 

[BarkingRosebud]

The organised public searches that were happening and arranged between the police and the public last week suddenly stopped at the end of last week. Is it possible the police did this deliberately to lure out the killer into dumping the body somewhere knowing there wouldn’t be hundreds of people in the likes of the Coppice/ Cemetery etc?