UK - Lucy Letby - Post-Conviction Statutory Inquiry

[cottonweaver]

DBM

 

[cottonweaver]

Re then Deputy Ward Manager Yvonne Griffith.
Was she one of Letby's witnesses or am I just recalling that she seemed to give Letby helpful testimony in the 2023 trial?

( At the Thirlwall website there are so many statements which Griffith has been asked to review and then later she revises those statements. Other witnesses like Brearey recollect some events differently)

------
edited to add
Also just noticed this in Tortoise's post 494 on this page

YG answers ' A. Well, I think when I look at the date, 2013, I was pretty new at managing these situations, it was the first incident of a high calibre that I was dealing with'

YG had been made deputy ward manager in 2004 (and when Powell retired in 2017 YG took EP’s role)
Nine years and a first for YG

 

[Tortoise]

Yvonne Griffiths - deputy NNU manager

16/10/2024 – Transcript of Week 6 Day 3 | The Thirlwall Inquiry

Transcript of Part B Evidence: - Anne McGlade – Children’s Ward Manager - Yvonne Farmer – Registered Practice Development Nurse - Yvonne Griffiths – Neonatal Deputy Ward Manager

thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk

Q. And were you aware of any discussion about any similarities between the death and the collapse between the two twins?

A. No.

Q. In paragraph 51 you deal with a message that Letby sent to you on 11 June of 2015. This is your page 10 and very helpfully if I may say --

A. Yes.

Q. -- you have recreated the message in your witness statement so we can look there. This is 11 June, so this is very shortly after the death of Child A and the collapse of Child B:

"Hi Yvonne. Are you okay for staffing over the next few days? I don't have anything on if you need extra or need to change my nights?"

And then you replied and said that staffing was okay until Saturday, the 13th,

and Letby replied to that: "Ok. Think I need to throw myself back in on Sat X."

And you replied saying you hoped things would settle down by Saturday

to which she replied: "Hope so! But I think from a confidence point of view I need to take an ITU baby soon."

--

And we know what came next - her next shift and the messages she sent to JJK moaning about Mel being put in room 1, and Nurse W shift-leader not respecting LL's feelings, and then going in room 1 and murdering baby C.

 

[cottonweaver]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846840292911002052

Imagine being one of the victims and hearing Powell say that in 2024. Powell says she wouldn't have done anything differently

 

[iamshadow21]

View attachment 538293

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846840292911002052

Imagine being one of the victims and hearing Powell say that in 2024. Powell says she wouldn't have done anything differently

She wouldn't have done anything differently, and the consultants were difficult to work with and didn't listen to the views of others.

If it weren't for the consultants, LL might still be killing with her buddies enabling it. And anyone who doesn't acknowledge that by this point is wilfully choosing that standpoint.

MOO

 

[Parker Knoll]

Unbelievably crass comment.

 

[iamshadow21]

I honestly wonder if EP thinks LL is innocent, or if she's just one of those people who never admits she was wrong, ever.

 

[Tortoise]

I honestly wonder if EP thinks LL is innocent, or if she's just one of those people who never admits she was wrong, ever.

I think she doesn't want to open herself up to any responsibility negligence-wise for the babies' deaths and ongoing disabilities.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Everything she did took advantage of her environment - whether that was colleagues being busy and not observing her, taking insulin from the fridge unmonitored, nurses less qualified than her getting experience in room 1, the babies' mothers having medical conditions, nights being when consultants were at home and parents were asleep, staff going on breaks, the unit being stretched, her boyfriend thinking she was the best nurse to walk the earth, etc etc.

She didn't kill and attempt to kill to make the unit or any particular colleague look bad. IMO. If that was her intention she would have targeted just one nurse's babies, or just swamped them with Datix forms without harming any of the babies.

MOO

I was thinking more along the lines that it was a effort to conceal her actions by making the unit look bad. If she is all glowing, competent and top of Ms Powells hierarchy then she looks good the unit and other staff potentially look bad. One may think it's good cover so to speak but not imo the motive whatever the hell that is.

 

[Parker Knoll]

She’s one hundred per cent covering herself here.

 

[Jazmania]

Yvonne Griffiths - deputy NNU manager

16/10/2024 – Transcript of Week 6 Day 3 | The Thirlwall Inquiry

Transcript of Part B Evidence: - Anne McGlade – Children’s Ward Manager - Yvonne Farmer – Registered Practice Development Nurse - Yvonne Griffiths – Neonatal Deputy Ward Manager

thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk

Q. And were you aware of any discussion about any similarities between the death and the collapse between the two twins?

A. No.

Q. In paragraph 51 you deal with a message that Letby sent to you on 11 June of 2015. This is your page 10 and very helpfully if I may say --

A. Yes.

Q. -- you have recreated the message in your witness statement so we can look there. This is 11 June, so this is very shortly after the death of Child A and the collapse of Child B:

"Hi Yvonne. Are you okay for staffing over the next few days? I don't have anything on if you need extra or need to change my nights?"

And then you replied and said that staffing was okay until Saturday, the 13th,

and Letby replied to that: "Ok. Think I need to throw myself back in on Sat X."

And you replied saying you hoped things would settle down by Saturday

to which she replied: "Hope so! But I think from a confidence point of view I need to take an ITU baby soon."

--

And we know what came next - her next shift and the messages she sent to JJK moaning about Mel being put in room 1, and Nurse W shift-leader not respecting LL's feelings, and then going in room 1 and murdering baby C.

Just reading the transcript of Yvonne Griffith's testimony yesterday makes me so mad.I know Powell has rightly received lots of criticism, but I think plenty is due to Griffith's too. She knew about the concerns consultants had about Letby from October. She saw graphs proving that Letby was present for 7/8 deaths by October, and 9/10 deaths by January. Yet she described consultants as conducting a witchhunt in Letby's grievance process. She completely changed her testimony in quite a suspicious way about whether she changed Letby's shifts as a result of Brearey's concerns about her role in the collapse of I. Now she completely denies the recollections she previously had after reading other people's testimonys for the inquiry. She shows absolutely no regret or contrition about her actions. And she currently is the most senior nurse at COC, having taken over from Powell. I'm convinved if the same thing happened now she would behave in exactly the same way and the nurse would be free to murder as before. She should not be in her job IMO.

 

[Anxala]

I can't understand how LL was ever seen as 'nice Lucy' by her colleagues? Putting the murdering aside, she's really coming across in the Inquiry as a seriously unpleasant, petulant person, full of her own self-importance, draining to be around and not remotely supportive or respectful of those she worked with.

 

[Marantz4250b]

What a monster this woman is. I daresay she is now acting out a role in prison, and probably becoming a "teacher's pet" to some. And I'm sure her mother is still totally deluded - mind you, no doubt she never heard anything about Lucy's failures and "mistakes" at work, or ever. Only how wonderful everyone thought she was. I would think that her father possibly has a few doubts, but won't ever voice them if he is wise.

Yes, I think that it's the case that everything that 99% of people know about Lucy is the version of Lucy that Lucy wanted them to know.

I still won't believe that she had a "difficult" birth until it's independently verified. Every time that's mentioned it always feeds to the original source being Lucy. She is the sole source of that information, as far as I can tell.

 

[Konstantin]

Yes, I think that it's the case that everything that 99% of people know about Lucy is the version of Lucy that Lucy wanted them to know.

I still won't believe that she had a "difficult" birth until it's independently verified. Every time that's mentioned it always feeds to the original source being Lucy. She is the sole source of that information, as far as I can tell.

Plenty of people have difficult births. They don't turn out to be serial killers. That fact is what keeps most of us alive from day to day.

Lucy is some sort of malignant narcissist or sociopath who cannot admit that she is ever at fault for any tiny thing. And she has to meticulously control and curate her image. She comes across as manipulative in her texts to colleagues. Did her upbringing play a role in that? Doting parents? Probably? Who knows.

 

[Marantz4250b]

RSBM
But maybe that's it? She was always unremarkable, and perceived to be so, and perhaps it rankled. So she finally decided to do and be something remarkable.

Yes, I take your point - and I think you're right - but I was meaning more that there doesn't seem (yet) to be any of the red flags which have come out about the childhood or adolescence of other serial killers which have surfaced as regards her. Shipman, it transpired, was deeply messed up by his mother's death from cancer early in his life and was actually a Heroin addict whilst he was a GP - how on earth he was allowed to continue is beyond me. He was also quite the loner and had very few actual friends.

Ted Bundy had a very messed up childhood, I think.

Beverly Allitt was horrendously anti-social and had a history of violence towards partners, got barred from pubs, etc. She even poisoned a dog for attention.

There is literally nothing like that with LL. Very few people seems to have a bad word to say against her and she was actually quite a sociable person. Yes, we've seen a few things coming out now about her, especially with this thing about her failing her initial placement and being described as cold and lacking empathy, but there seems to be nothing - that we know of obviously - about her earlier life or her life outside of work settings.

I just find her so strange.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I can't understand how LL was ever seen as 'nice Lucy' by her colleagues? Putting the murdering aside, she's really coming across in the Inquiry as a seriously unpleasant, petulant person, full of her own self-importance, draining to be around and not remotely supportive or respectful of those she worked with.

I agree to an extent, but I get the impression that that behavior was mostly expressed towards people more senior than her. I think that the regular nurses she worked with on a similar level to her were all given the "nice Lucy" personna. Same with the doctors who maybe didn't work with her a lot.

Lets not forget that she seemed to have lots of friends, socialised and went out a lot and lots of people were taking pictures of her and putting them on FB, etc. It's not often that people do that as regards people they find unpleasant to be around.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Plenty of people have difficult births. They don't turn out to be serial killers. That fact is what keeps most of us alive from day to day.

Agreed. The point I'm making, though, is that we have no one's word that it happened other than Lucy's. She may have simply invented it as part of her false persona?

She wasn't saying that as a justification for her killings but, rather, as the reason she wanted to become a children's nurse.

 

[cottonweaver]

Just reading the transcript of Yvonne Griffith's testimony yesterday makes me so mad.I know Powell has rightly received lots of criticism, but I think plenty is due to Griffith's too. She knew about the concerns consultants had about Letby from October. She saw graphs proving that Letby was present for 7/8 deaths by October, and 9/10 deaths by January. Yet she described consultants as conducting a witchhunt in Letby's grievance process. She completely changed her testimony in quite a suspicious way about whether she changed Letby's shifts as a result of Brearey's concerns about her role in the collapse of I. Now she completely denies the recollections she previously had after reading other people's testimonys for the inquiry. She shows absolutely no regret or contrition about her actions. And she currently is the most senior nurse at COC, having taken over from Powell. I'm convinved if the same thing happened now she would behave in exactly the same way and the nurse would be free to murder as before. She should not be in her job IMO.

I'm still wading through her inquiry evidence but what I have read is worrying considering she was promoted into Powell's role after Powell's retirement

Too many examples so I'll just pick one.

Question line 2 ( RH column) In retrospect do you think such training would have helped?
Answer, line 10 ( RH column)
' No I don't think so because....'

Her evidence starts on page 19
https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Thirlwall-Inquiry-16-October-2024.pdf

 

[Marantz4250b]

Unbelievably crass comment.

I've just read that Twitter thing from EP and, I swear to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that if you exchanged the initials EP or LL it would fit perfectly!

I bet these two got on really well together. Same wavelength.

 

[Tortoise]

Just reading the transcript of Yvonne Griffith's testimony yesterday makes me so mad.I know Powell has rightly received lots of criticism, but I think plenty is due to Griffith's too. She knew about the concerns consultants had about Letby from October. She saw graphs proving that Letby was present for 7/8 deaths by October, and 9/10 deaths by January. Yet she described consultants as conducting a witchhunt in Letby's grievance process. She completely changed her testimony in quite a suspicious way about whether she changed Letby's shifts as a result of Brearey's concerns about her role in the collapse of I. Now she completely denies the recollections she previously had after reading other people's testimonys for the inquiry. She shows absolutely no regret or contrition about her actions. And she currently is the most senior nurse at COC, having taken over from Powell. I'm convinved if the same thing happened now she would behave in exactly the same way and the nurse would be free to murder as before. She should not be in her job IMO.

Yes, I'm still working through her testimony. I've just finished the part where she was questioned about changing her evidence in her statements to the police, and to the inquiry, the day prior to being called to give evidence this week, where she had previously recalled Dr Brearey telling her on October 14th 2015 not to allocate baby I to Letby for her next shift because he told her he had concerns about her. Now she says Dr Brearey didn't voice his concerns to her about LL until July 2016 and she took LL off because she had a more experienced nurse to allocate to baby I. I don't believe her and she can't explain the recall she expressed very clearly in her earlier statements.

I can see the pitfalls in saying you knew concerns had been expressed by the lead consultant, a week before baby I was in fact murdered.

Disgraceful!