UK -Major incident declared - UK anti-terror police investigating possible nerve agent attack, 2018

[jiminy]

Very, very strange, indeed. But wouldn't it make sense to poison unlikely civilians first or at least in more close proximity to intended targets?

You'd think!

 

[jjenny]

Not a hope of finding those responsible and holding them accountable the Russian government frequently gets away with murder. The intelligence service will know a lot more than the public do.

UK hasn't provided any evidence that Russian government was behind it. In fact this Novichok doesn't appear to be a good poison for targeted assassinations, considering the supposed targets (Skripals) are both alive, yet this woman who was supposedly not targeted, is dead.

 

[CARIIS]

I just saw this news, so very sad! They really need to find those responsible, just horrific and disgusting.

not gonna happen

if putin attempting murder known spies

nothing happens

two sad addicted poor persons

Putin is ruling

just the new world order

hold tight

moo

 

[CARIIS]

UK hasn't provided any evidence that Russian government was behind it. In fact this Novichok doesn't appear to be a good poison for targeted assassinations, considering the supposed targets (Skripals) are both alive, yet this woman who was supposedly not targeted, is dead.

with the other two you need all of americas resources to try to find

 

[Ellmau]

UK hasn't provided any evidence that Russian government was behind it. In fact this Novichok doesn't appear to be a good poison for targeted assassinations, considering the supposed targets (Skripals) are both alive, yet this woman who was supposedly not targeted, is dead.

The Skripals were almost certainly in better physical shape before the attack, as the indications are that DS and CR had addiction issues. That would make them less likely to be able to fight off any kind of illness imo.

 

[Amonet]

What is not clear to me is if Rowley was the bin hunter, why would Dawn be sickened first?
They keep posting the cctv of DS shopping for alcohol before she became ill, re posting in case there is something pertinent there. Are the blurred people in the video all customers?
Coincidentally, the pics repeatedly shown of the S's prior to falling ill, also shows them drinking alcohol.

"This is the moment Novichok victim Dawn Sturgess was captured on CCTV buying alcohol just over 24 hours before she was found frothing at the mouth and taken into intensive care. The footage, obtained exclusively by MailOnline, shows the blonde and gaunt addict smiling and laughing at an off licence at the bottom of Rollestone Street in Salisbury, where her homeless hostel is located, unaware that by Saturday she would be fighting for her life. Ozzy Hayatsu, the owner of the Best 1 Local off licence who sold her four cans of Karpackie beer for £6.99, said: 'She seemed happy."
Nocookies
Yulia and Sergei Skripal at Zizzi in Salisbury, the same restaurant they went to for lunch before they were poisoned.

How long before she took ill was she in the shop? Her movement looks very edgy.

I just read (I think I got a Yahoo browser notification, because that's the only news I've seen) that Ms Sturgess has sadly died.

As far as we know she was just a person going about her day. She didn't deserve this, and my heart goes out to her family.

And I take exception to that DM article describing her as a "blonde and gaunt addict" instead of a "woman".

 

[LR1]

UK hasn't provided any evidence that Russian government was behind it. In fact this Novichok doesn't appear to be a good poison for targeted assassinations, considering the supposed targets (Skripals) are both alive, yet this woman who was supposedly not targeted, is dead.

What would an alternative explanation besides Russia look like? I don't think just any old mafia underworld figure could get their hands on this stuff. I think the first victims, given who they are betrays the culprit. They use as cover the outlandish nature and timing of the attack. I'm very curious as to where they came into contact.

 

[Amonet]

I looked at the chemistry of the agent on the Wikipedia page, and I don't see any obvious way that drinking alcohol could be used to activate it. It's not one the ingredients (in the alcohol form). I am not a chemist and it's a long time ago since I did chemistry at school, but I don't think that's likely.

 

[Amonet]

What would an alternative explanation besides Russia look like? I don't think just any old mafia underworld figure could get their hands on this stuff. I think the first victims, given who they are betrays the culprit. They use as cover the outlandish nature and timing of the attack. I'm very curious as to where they came into contact.

I think that it's not just about looking at which countries have novichok stocks, but also which of them would be likely to want to produce a poisoning in the UK of the Skripals. That would seem to make Russia stick out.

Dying is pretty irrelevant. Or I should say immediate death, is irrelevant. In the Russia scenario, it's a warning. Look at the Wikipedia page for novichok and look at the man who survived accidental contamination and what the long-term effects were. Even in the atropine treatment it says that it's extremely fine to work out an antidote dose that doesn't kill the patient.

Russia didn't even deny it outright in the statement that they never had a program called 'novichok'.

Skripal lives near Porton Down, there's also a major army camp there, and a lot of large manoevres done on Salisbury Plain.

Salisbury is a nice tourist town. People not only live there but there will be a large influx of tourists.

People who work at Porton Down, or who've formerly worked there, can get into a car and drive to London or half of the UK in less than half a day.

Skripal being a victim makes it seem like a targeted attack. Even if someone smeared this stuff on a train and dozens of people took ill, a lot of people would say "Oh look, a former Russian spy was on that train! Was he the target?"

I'm not ruling out other options, but I think Russia would have to be the number 1 suspect.

I wouldn't rule out possible contamination left over from the Skripal attack for this round 2, but I also wouldn't rule out an attempt at misdirection. There are a lot of people on my FB who don't believe it was Russia, and now there's a second couple affected they're very much against pointing the finger at Russia. But I have to put this into the context of a world that's going on about misdirection attacks. I don't remember as many people thinking Russia was innocent when that guy died of the radiation poisoning, but that was before I had FB and before this online culture of calling things hoaxes, from 911 to children being shot up in schools, to terrorist bomb attacks, and now this.

After seeing the way Russia has been manipulating public perception by things like fake posts on news website comment sections, FB campaigns, etc, I feel like it's perfect for Russia, for Putin and his ilk, that we now point at our own governments (which are not perfect) before we'll point at the number 1 suspect in these incidents, and we have people going on about 'crisis actors' and other nonsense as if we've all been brainwashed by Alex Jones.

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
Opinion | A British woman just died from Novichok poisoning. We must know whether Russia’s at fault.
"WHEN TWO Russians carried radioactive polonium to London in 2006 in a murder plot against Alexander Litvinenko, a former officer of the Federal Security Service turned critic of President Vladimir Putin, they left behind a trail of the substance. They poisoned Mr. Litvinenko by putting it in his tea, and he later died, but they also left traces in hotels and a restaurant and aboard several airplanes, among other places."

 

[jjenny]

The Skripals were almost certainly in better physical shape before the attack, as the indications are that DS and CR had addiction issues. That would make them less likely to be able to fight off any kind of illness imo.

It also sounds like they didn't figure out quickly that Novichok was used to poison DS, as it was apparently thought the two latest victims were poisoned by a bad butch of street drugs.

 

[jjenny]

What would an alternative explanation besides Russia look like? I don't think just any old mafia underworld figure could get their hands on this stuff. I think the first victims, given who they are betrays the culprit. They use as cover the outlandish nature and timing of the attack. I'm very curious as to where they came into contact.

Well, it has already been proposed on this thread what an alternative explanation could be.

 

[LR1]

I wouldn't rule out possible contamination left over from the Skripal attack for this round 2, but I also wouldn't rule out an attempt at misdirection. There are a lot of people on my FB who don't believe it was Russia, and now there's a second couple affected they're very much against pointing the finger at Russia. But I have to put this into the context of a world that's going on about misdirection attacks. I don't remember as many people thinking Russia was innocent when that guy died of the radiation poisoning, but that was before I had FB and before this online culture of calling things hoaxes, from 911 to children being shot up in schools, to terrorist bomb attacks, and now this.

Excellent post Amonet and frankly more than I bargained for, haha! I agree with you almost entirely. The second exposure possibly being misdirection is an interesting possibility. Perhaps this dosage level was what was intended previously. I do have a hard time with the left over batch being stumbled upon by these two when it's been several months with no one else being exposed. This does not seem likely when by all accounts and as far as I know the ground zero so to speak of this latest has not been discovered.

Yes much of the conspiratorial nature comes from misdirection but you need the gullible to play along. The more the better and the internet gives them a voice which multiplies the conspiracy. Both stateside and across the pond this quality is not lacking.

 

[jjenny]

Excellent post Amonet and frankly more than I bargained for, haha! I agree with you almost entirely. The second exposure possibly being misdirection is an interesting possibility. Perhaps this dosage level was what was intended previously. I do have a hard time with the left over batch being stumbled upon by these two when it's been several months with no one else being exposed. This does not seem likely when by all accounts and as far as I know the ground zero so to speak of this latest has not been discovered.

Yes much of the conspiratorial nature comes from misdirection but you need the gullible to play along. The more the better and the internet gives them a voice which multiplies the misdirection. Both stateside and across the pond this quality is not lacking.

I really don't see how someone could control "the dosage level" if the stuff is being smeared on things. Again, this poison doesn't make for a good targeted assassination. Lots of ways to make sure intended target dies, this doesn't appear to be one of them.

 

[Amonet]

Excellent post Amonet and frankly more than I bargained for, haha! I agree with you almost entirely. The second exposure possibly being misdirection is an interesting possibility. Perhaps this dosage level was what was intended previously. I do have a hard time with the left over batch being stumbled upon by these two when it's been several months with no one else being exposed. This does not seem likely when by all accounts and as far as I know the ground zero so to speak of this latest has not been discovered.

Yes much of the conspiratorial nature comes from misdirection but you need the gullible to play along. The more the better and the internet gives them a voice which multiplies the conspiracy. Both stateside and across the pond this quality is not lacking.

Yes, I did a Magnus Magnusson...Once I started I couldn't stop!

 

[Amonet]

I really don't see how someone could control "the dosage level" if the stuff is being smeared on things. Again, this poison doesn't make for a good targeted assassination. Lots of ways to make sure intended target dies, this doesn't appear to be one of them.

I would say that it might not be so much about causing the target to die, but to put fear in the rest of the ex-spy and expatriate community. It also says that "when we come from you, you won't know how, when it'll happen, or in which way you'll suffer, but we can get you wherever you are, even if you're next door to a massive army camp and the top poisons facility in the UK."

 

[CARIIS]

I really don't see how someone could control "the dosage level" if the stuff is being smeared on things. Again, this poison doesn't make for a good targeted assassination. Lots of ways to make sure intended target dies, this doesn't appear to be one of them.

I dont know if we can come to this notionuntil and if point of contact is establsihed

casue russia is probably involved we are going imo back to old spy stuff

that is not putins care any longer it to make measses not trust anything any longer

that iswhere this ig gonna go

how did govy mess up and not get it all last time when reality might be that was the reason for an actual second attack

look at what Putin has done over here -- were on the brink of like a cival war that is what the world leader ( putin) wnats

britain is gonna be divided over this and govt handling

moo

 

[Amonet]

I dont know if we can come to this notionuntil and if point of contact is establsihed

casue russia is probably involved we are going imo back to old spy stuff

that is not putins care any longer it to make measses not trust anything any longer

that iswhere this ig gonna go

how did govy mess up and not get it all last time when reality might be that was the reason for an actual second attack

look at what Putin has done over here -- were on the brink of like a cival war that is what the world leader ( putin) wnats

britain is gonna be divided over this and govt handling

moo

Very good points. Yes, a second attack could send a message to the British public that their government is useless, it can't protect them. That would be a very good propaganda exercise. As is the part about infighting amongst people, which is a lot of what the Russian stuff on comment boards has been about for the US. And I believe that is payback for the Russian perception (imho probably an accurate perception) that the West has been interfering in Russia via NGOs for a long time. Plus, we're not fully out of the Cold War, I think it's more that the nature of the game has changed, which is a great shame.

 

[gregjrichards]

UK hasn't provided any evidence that Russian government was behind it. In fact this Novichok doesn't appear to be a good poison for targeted assassinations, considering the supposed targets (Skripals) are both alive, yet this woman who was supposedly not targeted, is dead.

The U.K government is not going to declare all the intelligence MI5 and MI6 has that agents from the Russian Federal Security Service are behind this attack as it is a National security concern.

I personally think Prime Minister Theresa May and the U.K government have looked very weak in handling this matter. Maybe I am biased as I am not a fan of either in any regard.

 

[CARIIS]

The U.K government is not going to declare all the intelligence MI5 and MI6 has that agents from the Russian Federal Security Service are behind this attack as it is a National security concern.

I personally think Prime Minister Theresa May and the U.K government have looked very weak in handling this matter. Maybe I am biased as I am not a fan of either in any regard.

Hi Gregg!!

Pls be fair

look at what we have to deal with every 2.5 seconds == your on easy street my friend!!

ha !!

creepcrawlers link to cbsn is really good guys

lots of info

each tank weighs about 40 pounds

a lot of the break-- think christmas lights - is to restring all the tanks along the route

am somewhat confused are they actually starting to go in again NOW

actually when they get to the real tight places they actual have to REMOVE all their tanks getting dressed in total blackness can present a hazard can you imagine with a child behind you and another dude or lady

and then when the next adult right after your kid makes the chain ( i am visualizing it like linking up railroad cars!) then the child and the guy that got thro has to like hover in place while that guy or lady gets all her stuff all off gets through and then has to get all dressed again

it is utterly incredible