Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[Deleted member 178385]

“Since 1999, when Margaret was last seen by anyone other than her carers, she has received benefits worth thousands of pounds.

“With housing benefit, carers allowance and disability living allowance, the amount of benefits received could be in excess of £300 a week.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-not-seen-anyone-carers-9467425

So they know (or assume?) she received benefits but have made a guess as to which ones, it seems. When info in an article begins "A source said...", a big pinch of salt is required IMO! The red tops do love anything benefit-related, after all.

From the bottom of the article:

"The Department for Work and Pensions refused to give details about any benefits paid to anyone at the house.

A spokeswoman said: “As this is a police matter, we are unable to provide a comment. All queries should be directed to Police Scotland.”

Police declined to comment on the DWP’s involvement."

 

[Ironside]

Wow. £300 a week for 17 years is approx £250000.

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[sar2them1984]

I'm not liking how close the property is to the body of water!

I'm sure I'd read that the male carer had a fair bit of money from his hotel business and other properties. Sure doesn't look like they spent much of it on that property

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[MelmothTheLost]

Wow. £300 a week for 17 years is approx £250000.

There's a vociferous lobby within the disabled community which has been campaigning hard against the introduction of more rigorous periodic checks on those receiving disability and ill-health benefits. No wonder. Yet ironically if checks had been being carried out periodically since 1999, Margaret's disappearance would almost certainly have been discovered much sooner.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I'm not liking how close the property is to the body of water!

No, nor reports that the male carer was into deep sea diving. I wonder if he has his own boat. If so, Margaret's body could have been taken well out to sea and dumped years ago.

I'm sure I'd read that the male carer had a fair bit of money from his hotel business and other properties. Sure doesn't look like they spent much of it on that property

And this does make me wonder whether they or anyone else has been living there in recent years. That satellite aeriel doesn't look rusted at all to me so I wonder how long it's been there.

 

[Lolabear]

No, nor reports that the male carer was into deep sea diving. I wonder if he has his own boat. If so, Margaret's body could have been taken well out to sea and dumped years ago.



And this does make me wonder whether they or anyone else has been living there in recent years. That satellite aeriel doesn't look rusted at all to me so I wonder how long it's been there.

Neighbours had said they visited and sat in the living room...wonder how long ago that was as it looks crammed full and news report said it was described as vomit inducing...can't see they'd let people in with it in that state. Also they holidayed with them...so must've been close friends and must've visited quite regularly.
What a bizarre story. Poor Margaret 😔

 

[Lolabear]

I'm beginning to think a lot more will be discovered tbh.

 

[Ironside]

I can see this causing an enquiry if it transpires she has come to some harm.

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[ctaylor]

I'm from Scotland and work for the Civil Service. I do not deal with Disability Benefits but something similar. In our department they do regular checks on claims and I find it almost inconceivable that no one from DWP visited her in 17 years. There would have to be regular checks as disability benefits are not unlimited. The level of benefit would be evaluated regularly to ensure people get the correct amount - for example someone who receives a High Rate Care component would have it reduced to Middle Rate if they got better, able to move better again. Maybe somehow the case did slip through the cracks however as I definitely fear the worst for Margaret.

 

[ColourPurple]

Also from that same link:



How do you go on month long holidays without the person you're caring for, that has been reported to need day-to-day assistance? How can you be a friend of someone's for nearly 30 years, be in there home, and NEVER see the person they're supposed to be caring for? EVER. Not once?

Poor Margaret I think she's been gone a very, very long time.

I'm wondering if Margaret passed away whilst left home alone while they were away on one of their month long holidays.

 

[JerricaBenton]

Takeaway delivery guy has been delivering Chinese meals for 2 for years, and never saw a sign of poor Margaret.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/ne...tishSun-thescottishsun-_-20161217-_-734433566

 

[JerricaBenton]

Interesting comments about shoddy journalism in this case under the latest update here, as always we should be careful as to what to believe from the papers
https://www.facebook.com/greenocktelegraph/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf

 

[Lolabear]

Interesting comments about shoddy journalism in this case under the latest update here, as always we should be careful as to what to believe from the papers
https://www.facebook.com/greenocktelegraph/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf

They must think the carers are involved or why dig up the entire garden? Margaret can't of buried herself!
I'd be interested to know if there was a bedroom or rooms for Margaret in the house. If so there must be signs of it either being used or left to rot. If Margaret had been there DNA will be all over, toothbrushes, toilet etc. I can't see how they can't be suspects seeing as to everyone else Margaret has never so much as been mentioned. Dodgy!

 

[Deleted member 178385]

New appeal over missing Margaret Fleming 17 years on

"If Margaret is reading this, I would ask her to get in touch with police. She is not is any trouble, we just want to ensure she is safe and well."

(quote from Det Ch Insp Paul Livingstone, the senior investigating officer)


and

"Specialist teams have been searching the house and garden where Ms Fleming lived with her carers Edward Cairney, 75, and Avril Jones, 56.

It is believed they are looking for any documentation, clothing or personal items which could help find her."

... buried in the garden??

 

[Rayemonde]

THE senior detective leading the search to find missing Margaret Fleming insists there is still no evidence to contradict the carers' claims...

And he has said there is yet no indication of any wrongdoing by the woman's two carers Avril Jones and Edward Cairney at their house in Inverkip, Inverclyde...

He said: "There is no evidence of any crime having been committed and Margaret's carers are still assisting us with our inquiries.

"They would ask Margaret who she was spending time with and she would say 'that's private'.

http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/...t_Fleming_s_carers__are_not_under_suspicion_/

Right. There's no evidence yet, as there is no body or eyewitnesses to murder or anything like that. But the story doesn't make sense, and LE are looking for a body and trying to keep the carers talking. Jmo.

 

[Rayemonde]

"I have no evidence to contradict what the carers are telling us. There are people who do keep aspects of their lives private."...

DCI Livingstone added: "The search continues but we haven't found anything in the garden so far. We're keeping an open mind."

http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/...t_Fleming_s_carers__are_not_under_suspicion_/

"Keeping an open mind". Typical LE speak that we have all heard before.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/...t_Fleming_s_carers__are_not_under_suspicion_/

"Keeping an open mind". Typical LE speak that we have all heard before.

Yes, they're trotting out all the standard lines. Seems to me Margaret's been gone a looooong time. If she aint in the garden the best bet's the sea. In which case....

 

[Spyder84]

I agree with the benefit fraud suggestion, its plausible to think when investigating fraud they will look through every claim form they have and saw that she was involved with social services, maybe it was a social worker who helped her fill in the form and they in turn contacted social services and turned up more questions then answers.

Regarding involvement of social services, if someone is settled with private carers and appears to be well looked after initially and also not needing any assistance from the local authority, then there is no justification for further funding to keep up continual visits, I know this from my own personal experience and this is how a lot of vulnerable adults fall through the net. Maybe the carers had honest intentions initially.

I do find all this rather puzzling but entirely plausible that she was off the radar for so long, but it happens more often then people realise and I come across this sort of reclusiveness a lot at work

 

[ColourPurple]

They must think the carers are involved or why dig up the entire garden? Margaret can't of buried herself!
I'd be interested to know if there was a bedroom or rooms for Margaret in the house. If so there must be signs of it either being used or left to rot. If Margaret had been there DNA will be all over, toothbrushes, toilet etc. I can't see how they can't be suspects seeing as to everyone else Margaret has never so much as been mentioned. Dodgy!

Wonder if they've brought cadaver dogs in.

I'd love to think that Margaret's alive and well and living elsewhere but I think that's the least likely outcome here. Nobody other than the carers seems to have seen her for 17 years and yet theyre claiming that she was living there right up until an hour before police arrived and then went missing from that moment on. What are the chances of her going missing just at the point that somebody checked up on her for the first time in 17 years. Utter BS

 

[Rayemonde]

Wonder if they've brought cadaver dogs in.

I'd love to think that Margaret's alive and well and living elsewhere but I think that's the least likely outcome here. Nobody other than the carers seems to have seen her for 17 years and yet theyre claiming that she was living there right up until an hour before police arrived and then went missing from that moment on. What are the chances of her going missing just at the point that somebody checked up on her for the first time in 17 years. Utter BS

Maybe Margaret did leave home up to 17 years ago, but her disability payments kept arriving so the carers said nothing and kept taking the money... Then when social services turned up they thought they'd better lie about when she left so they wouldn't be prosecuted for keeping the money.

Not a likely scenario, but possible.