Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[lizziginne]

I wonder will it be Paisley high court or Glasgow? Regardless I'm so going to the trial and will have to restrain myself from shouting a Nelson Muntz haw haw when they get comvicted.


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I’d love to go to the trial too, particularly for the verdict! I’ll have to see whether my rota will allow nearer the time.


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[CoverMeCagney]

If you all dress like this you'll be able to spot each other easily. For the selfie.



I feel a bit envious, is that weird?!

 

[JerricaBenton]

I'm going to see if I can go along as well.

 

[Shiressleuth]

If you all dress like this you'll be able to spot each other easily. For the selfie.

View attachment 125855

I feel a bit envious, is that weird?!

Not weird - It's happiness that these two will finally face justice. Perhaps we should have a Crime Con up there around the time of the trial?

 

[Laughing]

If you all dress like this you'll be able to spot each other easily. For the selfie.

View attachment 125855

I feel a bit envious, is that weird?!

I'm envious, too! Direct observation of justice for Margaret plus a trip to Scotland?

Wait, I hafta go to work...here in the USA.

:seeya:

 

[guruagain]

Another story in todays daily Mail. Not sure where the specifics are coming from (even though the specifics are still somewhat vague!)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5057283/Carers-woman-not-seen-1999-accused-murder.html

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Another story in todays daily Mail. Not sure where the specifics are coming from (even though the specifics are still somewhat vague!)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5057283/Carers-woman-not-seen-1999-accused-murder.html

This article has made me realise who Cairney and Jones remind me of.

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring you Mr and Mrs Twit !!

 

[jessie]

This is all so very, very sad. Margaret would have been just 16 years old in 2000, only a child who needed care and support from those responsible for her.

IMO the prosecution details of her abhorrent treatment (locked up, hair cut, bound with tape) have been obtained from her school friends - poor child who else had she to talk to.

Sometimes the cases we hear of make me despair, but I remain convinced there are more good, decent, caring people in this world and it is these people who are determined that the evil ones are found and punished to the full force of the law.

 

[Ironside]

IMO the prosecution details of her abhorrent treatment (locked up, hair cut, bound with tape) have been obtained from her school friends - poor child who else had she to talk to.

I don't believe this myself. Wasn't one of the photos we've seen of Margaret taken at the family party shortly before she was allegedly murdered? If so her hair was quite long in the photo. Her school friends would have reported her being bound and locked up surely.

I think this info was gained through Avril cracking or the police bugging the evil twits.

Also Jessie Margaret would have been 18 or 19 in 2000 as she would have been 36 now.

 

[Ironside]

This article has made me realise who Cairney and Jones remind me of.

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring you Mr and Mrs Twit !!

View attachment 126005

Hahahaha it's uncanny! I lost it laughing when I noticed Mrs Twits stick.

If I had photoshop I would totally add on some manky green roots to Mrs Twit.

 

[Karisuma]

According the to the Greenock Telegraph the pair are petitioning the high court to overturn the decision to deny them bail.

http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/15642924.Couple_accused_of_murdering_Margaret_Fleming_to_try_and_overturn_custody_ruling/

As far as school friends, Margaret would have been 19 when she passed if it was just days after the millennium. From what I read she had left the college in 1998 so perhaps hadn't kept in touch with anyone or vice versa.

I have questions about the party that's always brought up as the last sighting. It was only friends and relatives of the carers that attended, so who's to say if she really was there or people are just covering for them. I also feel the photo provided of Margaret at the party seems a bit too dissimilar to the one where she is heavier set. In that her hair is a lot darker and I feel like the noses are quite different but of course maybe it's just the poor quality photography. I just personally have never felt that it was Margaret in that supposed photo from the party.

 

[Ironside]

Somehow I doubt they're getting bail.

I'm confident she was at the party, it's unlikely every single family member and friend there was in on it. At a family party you always get distant cousins etc. that you see every five years or so and the like.

They're just bad photos from the 90's.


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[easynic150]

Somehow I doubt they're getting bail.

I'm confident she was at the party, it's unlikely every single family member and friend there was in on it. At a family party you always get distant cousins etc. that you see every five years or so and the like.

They're just bad photos from the 90's.


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The photo where she has lighter hair she looks like Avril. She must’ve put on weight at some point.

Do we know anything about Margaret’s mental health diagnosis?


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[MelmothTheLost]

Do we know anything about Margaret’s mental health diagnosis?

Have I missed something? I though her issue was learning difficulties rather than a mental health one.

 

[JerricaBenton]

I feel so sorry for poor Margaret, she would be the same age as me. In the time no-one noticed her missing, Ive been to uni, got married twice and had 3 children. It's almost unbelievable that this could happen.

 

[jessie]

Hi all - sorry I misquoted Margaret's age at the time she 'possibly/probably' disappeared. Had a rather emotional week with another thread and got mixed up. Sometimes these cases really, really, get to me.

Somehow I just cannot believe Avril admitted to the locking up, hair cutting and binding as proposed by another poster. IMO it isn't something they (the evil pair) would discuss even in private.

Surely to bring charges the police have independent evidence and I sincerely hope it will be enough to convict.

 

[JerricaBenton]

Scottish law requires corroboration of evidence, so there would have to be 2 witnesses or other back up evidence as well.

 

[Ironside]

The twits are not getting bail.


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[jessie]

Interesting the slight differences in Scottish and English Law. Been reading this link.... am I correct in the trial should take place within 20 weeks of their first remand then? Would that make it about March 2018 ?

I also wondered if the accused would be awarded Legal Aid or is that not usual?

https://www.unlockthelaw.co.uk/serious-crime-defence-high-court-advocates-scotland.html




The timescales involved are affected by whether the accused is remanded in custody for trial or not. If the accused has been released on bail after the first appearance the Crown have 12 months within which to commence a trial against the accused. Where the accused is remanded in custody the timescales are much shorter, with the matter requiring to proceed to trial within 140 days of the accused being remanded in custody.

 

[jiminy]

Yes, the trial has to start within 5 months of being remanded in custody or the case gets thrown out.

I've never really thought about legal representation costs but according to this link, if you're charged/remanded with a serious crime you're automatically eligible for free legal representation. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/s...costs-s/#h-legal-aid-for-criminal-proceedings As with anything, I'd imagine that if you can afford to pay, you may get a better service or more aggressive defence. Eg. Donald Findlay and his like.