Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[Tortoise]

They have been on trial at the High Court in Glasgow for the last seven weeks, and jurors took just three and a half hours to reach a majority verdict on all charges.
Carers of missing Margaret Fleming found guilty of murder

 

[Tortoise]

A jury of eight women and seven men took more than three hours to find Cairney and Jones guilty of murdering Fleming at the High Court in Glasgow on Friday.

Carers found guilty of murdering missing Margaret Fleming

 

[Neko Luna Moon]

Good.

I wasn't sure which way they would go as they could have easily went for not proven and I would've understood why. I think they might've gone that way had he not took the stand and blathered a load of rubbish.

 

[Micha07]

Just got the news alert from STV. STV have just released several articles about AJ and EC - feeding into their notoriety.

 

[Micha07]

Good.

I wasn't sure which way they would go as they could have easily went for not proven and I would've understood why. I think they might've gone that way had he not took the stand and blathered a load of rubbish.

I can’t speak for everyone here, but this local’s opinion was always that they were lying about her having just left, since nobody in the village had seen her for such a long time.

That blatant lie had people thinking, “what else are they lying about?”

 

[Legally Bland]

I'm sure they're guilty, but wasn't too confident on the verdict on this one. Saying that, lots of the trial didn't get reported.

Brilliant.

 

[bluebird69]

This has made my day.I am pleased that ec finally found people who could not be bullied or persuaded by his blowhard manner. RIP Margaret wherever you are

 

[Tortoise]

Cairney and Jones will be sentenced next month.

Judge Lord Matthews will sentence the pair on July 17.
Margaret Fleming’s ‘carers’ convicted of her murder

 

[Micha07]

I'm sure they're guilty, but wasn't too confident on the verdict on this one. Saying that, lots of the trial didn't get reported.

Brilliant.

The story has been followed throughout by STV (Scottish version of ITV). I think they’ve been quite good with their coverage. It’s been all over the local newspapers. But I do agree that I haven’t seen it covered by other outlets, which could, and probably should have happened given the scale of the police search.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I remember seeing an interview with them on the BBC website in 2017 and thinking it was all v odd. ( Predates my WS days)

Wasnt aware they had been charged and standing trial, or a WS thread, until I read the guilty verdict today.

ETA BBC

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I’m pleased! Wondering whether Avril might now dob Eddie in for the actual murder bit!

 

[Micha07]

I’m pleased! Wondering whether Avril might now dob Eddie in for the actual murder bit!

Did he do it or did she, or did both of them do it together? That’s what I’m unsure of. No doubt they will try to cash in on the case somehow (since they’re benefit fraudsters too). Be interesting to see what they have to say but I’d have to drown it all in salt first.

 

[Ironside]

Wow. I was expecting a not proven for murder. I'm hoping there will be a BBC news special where we see all the footage of Seacroft.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Wow. I was expecting a not proven for murder. I'm hoping there will be a BBC news special where we see all the footage of Seacroft.

I thought it might be 'not proven', too but obviously the judge and jury heard a lot more than we did. I bet they appeal but I hope/expect Avril might buckle now and tell the truth. My gut feeling is that either Cairney killed Margaret, or that she died from beating and/or neglect. My other gut feeling is that he's a nasty piece of work and Avril was scared of him.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Holding them jointly responsibility for the death, the Crown claimed the couple “literally got away with murder for 16 years”. Money was the motive behind the “terrible” crime, the court heard, with the pair cooking up an “elaborate scheme” to conceal her disappearance.

They were ultimately brought down by “greed, arrogance and lies” after Jones made claims of Ms Fleming having “fantastical” illnesses and conditions in correspondence with benefits officials.

As police zoned in on the couple, their fabricated stories to explain Ms Fleming’s absence became increasingly “farcical” as they tried to reconcile claims she was both working as a gangmaster and capable of travelling overseas, and that she was someone with major difficulties requiring a number of benefits.

Margaret Fleming´s `carers´ convicted of her murder | Daily Mail Online

 

[Antonia]

Wow. I was expecting a not proven for murder. I'm hoping there will be a BBC news special where we see all the footage of Seacroft.

Yes, me too - so worried that the verdict would be 'not proven'.

I've watched the first episode of 'Murder Case', in which they said that they have been following Scottish police for a year, and I wondered if Margaret's case would be included in future (but I think filming might've started too late). It would be interesting to hear more about how they have secured a conviction.
BBC Scotland - Murder Case, Series 1, The Disappearance of Julie Reilly

Also, the benefit fraud aspect is worthy of a Panorama or Dispatches (if not government or police) investigation on how it was possible for so long and are there any other similar cases.

 

[Neko Luna Moon]

I noticed one journalist that was on the stand said there were 5 film cameras in the court room so I expect we will get to see more of this court case at some point in one form or another.

 

[Antonia]

I noticed one journalist that was on the stand said there were 5 film cameras in the court room so I expect we will get to see more of this court case at some point in one form or another.

Oh, yes, it sounds like it. Perhaps that's why coverage has been so limited, because there is going to be a programme about the case.

 

[Micha07]

Cameras have only been allowed in Scottish Courts since 2015. I believe they do allow recordings of trials for documentary purposes.

 

[Keine Engel]

Cairney and Jones will be sentenced next month.

Judge Lord Matthews will sentence the pair on July 17.
Margaret Fleming’s ‘carers’ convicted of her murder

Good! - I couldn't think of anyone better.​