GUILTY UK - Mikaeel Kular, 3, Edinburgh, Scotland, 15 Jan 2014 - #3

[haden]

That means "she is accused of killing the boy" ..... she hasn't been found guilty yet.

Yes. I am really sorry, by mistake.

She is innocent until found guilty.

 

[zwiebel]

So it looks like they do know how poor little Mikaeel died. I hope there is nothing worse to come.

 

[stacemcace]

What is the January 28th court date for?
Again not familiar with Scottish law

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Not sure but it might be a preliminary hearing to check the prosecution are ready and have enough evidence. I've heard of those hearings in other Scottish cases.

 

[graceholl]

Oh gosh. I have to say, I'm shocked. And very sad.

I half-expected a charge of gross negligence, in/voluntary manslaughter, but murder has much, much graver implications. Poor little mite.

 

[Clio]

I cant find it again now, twitter is moving so fast, but I thought I saw the words

Remanded for further examination

does that mean mental assessment ?

Think it's just standard terminology. Am guessing that full committal for trial is what the 28th is about.

Committal for further examination At the end of the accused’s first court appearance they will either be granted bail or remanded in custody until full committal for trial.

http://www.victimsofcrimeinscotland.org.uk/jargon-buster/

ETA

Full committal The second appearance by the accused in court (if they were remanded in custody). It takes place in private. It is held to confirm that the accused should be brought to trial. The accused will be granted bail or remanded in custody.

 

[stacemcace]

I cant find it again now, twitter is moving so fast, but I thought I saw the words

Remanded for further examination

does that mean mental assessment ?

She would be remanded to Corntvale Woman's Prison but if they think she's not fit she'll go to a secure hospital for evaluation.

 

[Deep12]

What is the January 28th court date for?
Again not familiar with Scottish law

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Second appearance is for full commital....she has to make a plea or not at this court.....
More police Time To further investigate ...... to see if she has any vulnerability's......get a witness list etc
Then a date for a trial will be set...

 

[Sarahlou]

Ugh. I did expect her to be charged with murder, for the reasons others have already said. I think she's another Casey Anthony type too. Poor Mikaeel.

 

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

Oh gosh. I have to say, I'm shocked. And very sad.

I half-expected a charge of gross negligence, in/voluntary manslaughter, but murder has much, much graver implications. Poor little mite.

It looks like the Scottish options are "murder" or "culpable homicide", the differences explained on this government page as follows (italicising by me):

Murder is committed when the accused has acted with the intention of killing the victim or where the accused's conduct has been 'wickedly reckless'.

Culpable homicide is committed where the accused has caused loss of life through wrongful conduct, but where there was no intention to kill or 'wicked recklessness'. This may also be considered where in law the accused is found to be of "diminished responsibility" because of some mental illness, or where there was provocation.

Wicked recklessness will be inferred from the circumstances of the accused's actions. Normally this will be based on the severity of the injuries and other factors about the nature of the assault.

In some cases, an accused may be charged initially with murder but Crown Counsel may decide that the evidence does not support a murder charge. The accused will then be tried on a charge of culpable homicide or, possibly another charge such as assault. Changes like this can also happen during the trial.

My bet is that 'wicked recklessness' is what's in play here, that poor boy.

 

[haden]

I've got mixed feelings.. my intuition is saying something much bigger is in place here..

 

[Iplem]

It's strange though, why would one child out of five be murdered?

If she'd lost her temper, and taken it too far but didn't mean to kill him, would that still be murder?

Has there been another case where one child out of several siblings has been singled out and killed?

I wonder if she was suffering from some delusions/mental illness that made her hate just the one child?

Seems very weird.

I really hope it doesn't come out that she had a history of abusing him/them and social services didn't do their jobs.

 

[southsleuth]

Any timeline on when the COD will be released?

 

[mrsward]

I've got mixed feelings.. my intuition is saying something much bigger is in place here..

can u explain ?

 

[Lots2Learn]

It looks like the Scottish options are "murder" or "culpable homicide", the differences explained on this government page as follows (italicising by me):



My bet is that 'wicked recklessness' is what's in play here, that poor boy.

If "wicked recklessness" what she did wouldn't the charge be culpable murder instead of murder?

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[haden]

can u explain ?

I've got a feeling she's kept quiet all of the time of the questioning and the coroner found out that the child was murdered.. and that this is all they know

 

[stacemcace]

I believe they have a strong case because the Procurator Fiscal would not risk a not guilt or not proven verdict. If they had any doubt if would be Culpable Homicide IMO

 

[Iplem]

I've got a feeling she's kept quiet all of the time of the questioning and the coroner found out that the child was murdered.. and that this is all they know

That's what I think as well.

 

[mrsward]

I've got a feeling she's kept quiet all of the time of the questioning and the coroner found out that the child was murdered.. and that this is all they know

my feeling is that she confessed to something , accidental or illness and led police to his body , but they now know it wasnt an accident hence murder charge ,
she hasnt entered a plea , but i dont think they usually do on the first hearing ?

 

[YidArmyRach]

I believe they have a strong case because the Procurator Fiscal would not risk a not guilt or not proven verdict. If they had any doubt if would be Culpable Homicide IMO

If the cause of death hasn't been established yet, does anyone know if they could downgrade the charge before trial?

I'm not suggesting it would be - I just don't know much about Scottish Law and was wondering if they had to either charge her or let her go today, so went for the "big one" so as to keep her in custody whilst they carry on investigating?

 

[Alyce]

It's strange though, why would one child out of five be murdered?

If she'd lost her temper, and taken it too far but didn't mean to kill him, would that still be murder?

Has there been another case where one child out of several siblings has been singled out and killed?

I wonder if she was suffering from some delusions/mental illness that made her hate just the one child?

Seems very weird.

I really hope it doesn't come out that she had a history of abusing him/them and social services didn't do their jobs.

It is very sad, but not uncommon, for one child to be singled out for dislike. I am NOT saying that is the case here, just that it does happen.

I had a pal who was one of five children ( five different fathers ! ). All the other kids were well treated, she was the one who's birthday was always forgotten, didn't get Christmas presents, her name was not mentioned when her mother sent Christmas cards, when her mother talked about her kids, she always said she had four children.

Even when my pal got married and had a child, her mother never mentioned my pal's daughter ( her grand daughter ) and pretended she didn't exist.

As to if RK lost her temper and didn't intend murder, then she would be entering a plea of manslaughter I believe.