Identified! UK - N.Yorkshire, 'Pennine Woman' AsianFem 376UFUK, 20-40, in water, Sep'04-Lamduan Seekanya

Good to see there is some movement in this case.

From The Telegraph (paywall for readers without subscription)
Detectives speak to husband of 'The Lady of the Hills' 19 years after she was found dead

The investigation has been at a standstill for three years because attempts by police to travel to the country were delayed by the legal permissions needed and travel restrictions imposed due to Covid.

BBM

I suppose this refers to legal permission from the Thai authorities, so that British Police can investigate in that country.
 
From The Telegraph (paywall for readers without subscription)
Detectives speak to husband of 'The Lady of the Hills' 19 years after she was found dead

The investigation has been at a standstill for three years because attempts by police to travel to the country were delayed by the legal permissions needed and travel restrictions imposed due to Covid.

BBM

I suppose this refers to legal permission from the Thai authorities, so that British Police can investigate in that country.
No doubt. I have worked in Thailand including on situations wheee law enforcement from my home country and Thailand were involved. It’s only in very serious cases that police from another country would travel and interview on foreign territory.
 

Police who travelled to Thailand to speak with the family of a woman found dead in the Yorkshire Dales have been unable to meet with her husband.
Walkers discovered the half-naked body of Lamduan Armitage, nee Seekanya, in a stream near Pen-y-ghent in 2004.
For 15 years her identity was unknown until family in Thailand came forward and DNA proved it was their daughter.
Officers have spoken with her parents but have not yet managed to meet with her husband David Armitage.
Before they flew out to Thailand on 15 February, North Yorkshire Police said they could not move the case forward without "understanding from Lamduan's family all the aspects about her life and particularly the last few months of her life".

While in the country they have worked alongside the Thai police's Department of Special Investigation (DSI) following a request from the force seeking interviews from witnesses in Udon Thani, Bangkok and Kanchanaburi.
Udomkann Warotamasikkhadit, head of the DSI's foreign affairs and international relations division, said Mr Armitage had initially agreed to come and give evidence.
But he said on the day he refused and added: "He said he didn't feel well and also had some personal issues."
Adam Harland, manager of the major investigation team's cold case review unit, said it was "unfortunate" that they had not been able to "seek the views of the whole family around Lamduan's remains".
Mr Harland said officers would now return to North Yorkshire while the DSI continued its investigations.
A post-mortem examination carried out after Lamduan's body was found on 20 September 2004 failed to establish how she died.

(…)

Here’s the full post on North Yorkshire Police’s website. https://www.northyorkshire.police.u...ces-lady-of-the-hills-case-heads-to-thailand/

Lack of collaboration from the husband, it seems.
 
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"Thai detectives
detain British husband of
'Lady of the Hills' murder victim
21 years after her half-naked body was found dumped at a Yorkshire beauty spot
- in a crime that baffled UK cops.

1737840812830.jpeg


David Armitage, 62,
is being held by immigration officials in the town of Kanchanaburi
over a problem with his visa,
according to Thai media.

The case of his wife Lamduan Seekanya puzzled police for nearly two decades
after her semi-naked body was found in a stream at a Yorkshire Dales beauty spot,
her murder has remained a riddle.

For 15 years after she was discovered by ramblers,
she was unidentified and was buried in a churchyard with only the name
'Lady of the Hills'
inscribed on her gravestone.

Her headstone,
paid for by local people in Ribblesdale, reads:

'The Lady of the Hills.
Found 20th Sept 2004.
Name Not Known.
Rest in Peace.'

She was never reported missing by her husband."

1737841779447.jpeg


 
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David Armitage, 62,
is being held by immigration officials in the town of Kanchanaburi
over a problem with his visa,
according to Thai media.
I am very familiar with the Thai immigration detention system and Immigration Detention Centre (IDC) having worked on cases for a number of years when I lived in Thailand. If Mr Armitage has overstayed his visa then he will have accrued a daily fine and will also be deported. He will be held in the IDC until then.

To be deported he must have a valid passport of his home country and either:
(a) pay the overstay fine in full & purchase a ticket to depart Thailand for his home country; or
(b) go to court saying he can't pay. This requires him to show what he CAN afford, plus a ticket to depart Thailand for his home country ASAP after the court hearing. He will then be fined the lower amount and will be taken to the airport for the flight.

In Thailand the offender is responsible to purchase their ticket for deportation. There is a travel agent office in the IDC! However it's not uncommon for people to stay in the IDC for extended periods if they can't or won't buy the ticket. I dealt several times with cases of foreigners who had spend years in the IDC. (Those from surrounding countries like Cambodia and Laos don't have to buy their own flight, Thai Immigration puts them into trucks to the border.)

The other possibility is that Mr Armitage has run up against immigration in some other way ie: working without a visa. That would normally involve a court appearance of some type and potentially a custodial sentence followed by deportation.
 
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apparently if he's deported, he gets to choose his destination??

can't see him choosing to come home and face the music somehow
Not in my experience. Even for dual nationals, Thailand's legal system treats you as a citizen of whichever passport you used on arrival. If a person is a US-UK national and entered on their UK passport then Thai legal systems will see them only as British and they could only be deported to the UK. If the same person entered on their US passport then they will be treated as a US citizen, deported to the US. Though it's been a couple of years since I've worked there, it's entirely possible their approach has moderated in that time.

In fact I suspect on some cases the police 'back home' preferred for the Thais to pick someone up on a visa violation and have them deported. Then they would be arrested back in their home country on arrival. Much easier than meeting the threshold for an international extradition.
 
Not in my experience. Even for dual nationals, Thailand's legal system treats you as a citizen of whichever passport you used on arrival. If a person is a US-UK national and entered on their UK passport then Thai legal systems will see them only as British and they could only be deported to the UK. If the same person entered on their US passport then they will be treated as a US citizen, deported to the US. Though it's been a couple of years since I've worked there, it's entirely possible their approach has moderated in that time.

In fact I suspect on some cases the police 'back home' preferred for the Thais to pick someone up on a visa violation and have them deported. Then they would be arrested back in their home country on arrival. Much easier than meeting the threshold for an international extradition.
Do you think it would help if the UK paid for a flight home?
 
"The British suspect in the murder of his Thai wife in 2004
has been arrested in Mueang district of Kanchanaburi province
and will be extradited to his home country.

1737909015713.jpeg


Armitage, who had fled the UK,
was residing in Thailand for an extended period,
according to the DSI investigation.

The arrest ended a two-decade-long investigation into the mysterious death of Lamduan in the Yorkshire Dales National Park, UK.

The investigators theorised that she may have been killed at home and her body transported to the remote valley to be discarded
as a way to conceal the crime.

The perpetrator, they assumed,
must have been familiar with the area,
suggesting local knowledge.

Armitage was detained under the Immigration Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act
between Thailand and the United Kingdom
for further legal proceedings."

1737909227915.jpeg



More reports:

"David Armitage, who has been living in Thailand since her death,
did not report his wife missing
and has not managed to be interviewed by Thai or British police about her whereabouts.

He has now been detained in Bangkok
while Thai authorities prepare to revoke his visa."


"Detectives initially believed she had died of natural causes
but a cold case team announced in 2018 that Lamduan was murdered."


"The development comes more than a year after he refused to meet cops from North Yorkshire Police's cold case unit
who had travelled to Thailand in February 2023."


Lamduan pictured in her native Thailand before she moved to the UK.

1737910820137.jpeg


:(

Rest in Peace
 
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Before her death, distraught Ms. Lamduan had phoned her mother in Udon Thani. Essentially, she told her parent she had not a single penny to spend.

‘She said she had no money, not even a single penny. She said she missed home so much,’ her mother told reporters at the time.


 
Do we know who raised their children? Did he take them with him or leave them in the care of relatives?

Quote:

The couple had two children, a boy named George and a little girl named Charlena. Lamduan had a son from a previous relationship named Khwan.....

.....Mr Armitage, at some point later, returned to live in Thailand where he is a teacher in the western province of Kanchanaburi.

He is living there with the couple’s daughter Charlena while George, the couple’s son, works in China. Lamduan older son, Khwan, ironically now lives and works in the United Kingdom.


He told the couple's children that Lamduan had left him for another man, the family say.

 
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Gosh, he was creative. I’ve never heard that explanation given for a “missing” (murdered) wife before (eye roll).
Yes and I think I saw in some media that he told them she'd returned to Thailand (which she had previously done when they separated for a time).

I feel so sad about this case - my partner is from a town not far from where Lamduan's parents live. We have so many Thai female friends who have been stuck in bad local marriages their first time around - often married really really young. Many have a perception that marrying a foreigner will be so much better. It's not all about money (though that stability that brings someone's life is part of it). There is a misunderstanding that western husbands don't lie, cheat or beat their wives, which of course we all know is definately false. It must be terrifying when they find themselves in a bad marriage in a new country with limited language skills and noone to turn to.
 

"After the British suspect in the murder of his Thai wife in 2004 has been arrested in Mueang district of Kanchanaburi province

and will be extradited to his home country,

mother of the victim revealed that she has always believed her son-in-law was the one who killed her daughter.


1738101195399.jpeg


Reflecting on nearly 20 years of events,
she shared that she had always believed her daughter's husband was the one who killed her,
because when her daughter visited home,
she told her that her husband had been physically abusive.
'My daughter was always naive person,

never involved in any arguments or conflicts with others.

I had a strange feeling when she went to England, as though she was leaving
and would never return',

said Joomsri.

1738101450917.jpeg


If her daughter’s spirit could hear her,
she added:

'I want to say,
may her soul rest in peace,
and don’t worry.
If there is a next life,
I hope she won't come back as a human,
but as a deity or a divine being,
because being human is full of suffering,
both mental and physical'."

:(

 

His son and his Thai girlfriend have persuaded him to return to the UK to "clear his name".
His daughter was killed a number of years ago in a road accident. He had been caring for his grand daughter.
He had moved to Thailand around about 2007. He has been retired for 2 years now, I supposed since his daughter died. So he would have been on a retirement visa, but its also possible that he had gained residency (a small number of foreigners can do this).

He apparently had been given 48 hours to appeal the revocation of his visa.
 
Yes and I think I saw in some media that he told them she'd returned to Thailand (which she had previously done when they separated for a time).

I feel so sad about this case - my partner is from a town not far from where Lamduan's parents live. We have so many Thai female friends who have been stuck in bad local marriages their first time around - often married really really young. Many have a perception that marrying a foreigner will be so much better. It's not all about money (though that stability that brings someone's life is part of it). There is a misunderstanding that western husbands don't lie, cheat or beat their wives, which of course we all know is definately false. It must be terrifying when they find themselves in a bad marriage in a new country with limited language skills and noone to turn to.

My wife is Thai. She had been previously married to her manager at the factory where she worked, for 20 years. Had a little house in Bangkok and a daughter at Uni, which was a huge deal for her, as she probably has a similar background to this lady.

Then her husband suddenly announced, literally, he had a new wife (he got his secretary pregnant). Her life then fell apart. They worked for a Japanese company, and Japanese companies are pretty pious. SO both were forced to leave their jobs. He returned to Isaan, where they had a country house on his mum's land. As far as I know, he spends his day tending rubber trees, eating BBQ'd rat and drinking Thai whiskey; there is a huge drinking culture in Issan, where even the little old ladies will sit around drinking rice liquor and Fanta. My wife's mother died in her 50s, and my wife blames drink.

Both her parents and brothers are all dead. Her younger brother died in a Bangkok hospital getting bypass surgery on the day of the Tsunami. She thinks her brother returned home after many years working as a fisherman in Malaysia, with HIV, and died. Her dad died a year after her younger brother died, after a memorial for him, because he got drunk and rode his scooter.

They sold the house. Her half of what was left she gave to her daughter to get her through university. The current King, when he was Crown Prince, basically expanded what the UK would call tech colleges and polytechnics, into full blown universities, to greatly expand education in Thailand. Thai families don't value education as you might think. She went to school until she was 12, then her parents had decided that was enough school for her, and she was put to work in the fields. Women also have to mix the cement, and be hod carriers. She's quite proud of her construction skills.

Like many women in Issan, which is the largest province in Thailand and the main farming area, she and her school friend had enough of this, saved enough money for a train to Bangkok, and ran away to the bright lights.

I'd like to think my wife is a bit different to the other semi-literate gorls. In Bangkok, she got herself a job as a maid, then put herself into a school for basically runaways, then got a job in Bangkokk's Chinatown in a squid factory, before landing an apprenticeship at 17 at a Japanese electronics company, which involved going to Japan for training, learning some Japanese, and eventually ending up in QA

Other ladies skip the education, and flock to the tourist areas. Many end up as bargirls. In the West, we might regard them as prostitutes, but its not as simple as that. They are looking for farang or a foreigner, to take them away from all that. Many, even when young, will have a kid, that they will have left with their parents to raise, while they "work". Its very common for single Thai mums not to see their kids for years, and its seen as entirely normal, not evidence of a trauma. Likely a 27 year old Armitage met his wife in a Bangkok bar, and paid the bar fine to take her home for the night.

When my wife basically lost everything, she had to restart her life, in her mid-40s. But Thai women are very practical, and won't let that get them down. Job options for 40-something Thai ladies are limited. You won't find them working at Tescos (Tesco was the first supermarket in Thailand, and had such an impact, even after they pulled out, Thai people still talk about going to Tesco, when in fact they are now called Lotus), nor at 711, because they will be reporting to a younger manager, and that can't happen in Thailand. So they end up running a street food stall, maybe going to work in a bar, or working in a massage shop. Which is what my wife did, getting her certificates from the Temple massage school

It seems in Thai Bhuddism, if the husband dies, its the wife's fault for bad khama. If the husband, its the wife's fault for not being very good. When they marry, the groom must pay her parents Sin Sod "Mothers Mik"; its not a dowry, but is compensation for raising their daughter. The oldest daughter (not the son) is expected to take care of their parents in old age, and Sin Sod is meant to help with that.

If the lady is a divorcee, especially with children, she is considered "ruined goods", and there is no Sin Sod. The idea of marriage in Thailand is not quite the same as the UK. The only place you can get married is at the local Amphur, or registry office. Buddha considered marriage an early thing, and nothing to do with religion. Sure, you see westerners getting a "Thai marriage" with monks, bits or rope etc, but its really nothing more than a good luck ceremony. My wife had much the same ceremony when she got her new motorbike and car, sort of like extra insurance. Armitage would likely have traveled to her village, had a big party, for which he would have had to pay for everything. They probably knew he didn't have much money, so likely would not have been asked to pay for a sick elephant or buy a new tractor for the brother in law.

I have thought about my wife moving to England. We tested it out with a long visit last year. She liked the idea of England, but found it too cold. I know she would struggle in the UK, and would miss speaking Thai. Thai ladies are both loyal, as long as the husband isn't kineal, or stingy, but also social; they become best friends with another Thai lady within 5 minutes (and also fall out equally quickly). She has a business in Thailand; it doesn't make much money, but its her business that she's built. In the UK, her options would be very limited. So I will be relocating my job to Thailand. Its not exactly the short end of the straw.

Lamduan, with a part time job washing up in a takeaway, would have found life in England very underwhelming. Many UK-Thai marriages fail in the UK, because the wife becomes isolated, and ends up finding other Thai ladies through social media, and retreating to their phones. The Westerner doesn't really understand this.

Its been variously reported that Armitage was either a Lecturer or a Teacher in the UK. Back in the UK, he seems to have secured a fairly entry level job in Portsmouth,, before moving to Rugby, and finding enough to buy a house there. But money was tight, because when Lamduan had to stop work due to repeated miscarriages, he couldn't pay the mortgage, so they went into rented accomodation. Then he ends up at his parents' home, a man approaching his 40s, with 3 kids. Normally, being in education, whether schools, or colleges, there is career progression. The money might not be great, but its ok, and there is a good pension. I'm getting a impression this man didn't really progress much in life.

At age 43, with a wife having disappeared into thin air, he decides to move to Thailand, for another low paying TEFL job, but at one of these Crown Prince Universities, taking two of the children with him, but leaving the stepson behind in the UK. This doesn't sound too sensible. In Thailand, he would have earnt about 40-50,000 Baht a month as a lecturer at a public University, far below even a trainee teacher's wage in the UK. In Thailand, he would have lived ok. As a foreigner, he can never own property, so would have lived in rented accomodation, though its possible he could have purchased a house using his children's names, as they would have Thai nationality
 
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