Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #9

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  • #661
Some on here have mentioned that the LE response to NB’s disappearance was commensurate with the High Risk category level. Has there been any indication in msm or from LE to explain why this might be?
Somebody kindly posted the link, last thread.
College of Policing guidelines. High risk of coming to harm( Appears to relate to the case circumstances - goes missing next to a river which all the real experts & 'stretch ' users say is ' notoriously' dangerous and ofc was very cold at the time)
 
  • #662
Fair enough. Though at this stage we don't know if there are any suspects or POIs.

Because she was asked about this topic at the last press conference, she said no, not being viewed as a crime as yet.

(If it's not being currently treated as a crime - because there's no evidence of a crime having taken place, yet - there can't be any suspects or PoIs. Only witnesses. )
 
  • #663
Has it been reported if the mobile phone movements were constant? Do the police know if the mobile phone was static for any length of time prior to arriving at the bench at 9.20? Is it possible to obtain this level of information from a mobile phone? They know the phone was at the bench at 9.20 and remained there until it was found at 9.33(?)
 
  • #664
These threads are filling up really quickly with repeated information, questions and theories, and it's really frustrating. Is there a way we could put together some sort of FAQ we could refer people to? E.g. Fitbit - LE says this. MSM reports friend saying this. Some posters think X, some posters thing Y.

There already is a thread in the media and timelines section
 
  • #665
Some on here have mentioned that the LE response to NB’s disappearance was commensurate with the High Risk category level. Has there been any indication in msm or from LE to explain why this might be?
Maybe because she's a lone female who has disappeared on a river walk leaving dog and 'phone behind. High chance of being in the river - in which case time is of the essence. You can't just leave it and 'maybe get someone onto it tomorrow'.
 
  • #666
Regarding Fitbit - if the police had cast iron Fitbit data that showed a sudden jump in heart-rate and BP between 9.20 and 9.33 don’t you think they would have shared it with the family at least?
I don't think they have had access to the fitbit data.
 
  • #667
I agree with this. I made a similar point last night.

My sister did a dissertation on the reliability of eye witness testimony for her psychology degree - it was eye opening. Memory, recognition is far more fallible than is popularly believed.
I'm currently studying for my BSc in Psychology and there is just so much to it, even down to how we visually process our environment. It is really complex.
 
  • #668
There already is a thread in the media and timelines section
I know, so I guess if people aren't reading that they won't read a FAQ either. :rolleyes:
 
  • #669
I think initially a body sinks pretty quickly. However once it enters the bloat stage and fills up with gasses it tends to float.

It may not reach the surface but could travel a good distance if caught up in a strong current.
It does normally surface, but after a period of time, I did read up about it, it takes longer when the water is cold
 
  • #670
To be fair to the witness who tied up the dog, she may have heard barking and thought there was a lost dog, dogs do get lost, and so she went to tie it up, to stop it coming into the caravan site, even though she had a meeting quite soon. If she was doing it in a hurry it might explain why she didn't jump from assuming the owner had lost the dog, to wondering if it was the owner who had gone missing.
 
  • #671
I'm just sitting here having a think...my best friend died when we were 29. I lasted for four months after her funeral before I was signed off sick with depression. Nobody knew that I was depressed. I didn't tell anyone at all but it felt like my life had come to a stop while everyone else carried on with theirs.

I'm not insinuating that NB had mental health problems at all, I'm just trying to think of an alternative path. NB sounds like a very busy lady. Late meetings, late zoom calls, emailing her boss, booking a playdate, walking the dog while waiting to join a work meeting. That's a lot. What if during the work call something just triggered an "I've had enough today" response? I've had a few of those moments as a widow bringing up a child on my own. I sat in my car once for two hours just watching people go past until I felt I was back in control and then I just carried on as normal.

What if during an "I've had enough" moment a person just put down the thing that caused that moment and walked away for a bit? They could have had an accident whilst walking and thinking and be somewhere that nobody expected them to actually be.
 
  • #672
Can someone clarify why NB is high risk MP, thx
I’m not sure that she is, or isn’t, officially.

But knowing a little bit about MPs and LE’s approach to MP reports, this case does raise some questions for me:

1. Why was there such a fast and comprehensive police response? Was it just due to the proximity of the river combined with other red flags like dog/phone abandoned? Or was there other background info?

2. What made it so newsworthy almost straight off? I imagine some of it was the circumstances above - most people who willingly go missing wouldn’t leave their phone or dog: there was an air of mystery.

Some of it might have been led by the police response - “they’re treating it as a big deal, therefore it is”.

I also think it was self-perpetuating to a certain extent - media publishes one story, it gets loads of clicks, prompts them to give it more coverage, and on it grows, taking on a bit of a life of its own.

But would the media also have a ‘nose’ for things that sound particularly intriguing or where there may be more at play? Or do they simply respond to the way the police are playing it?

So much of the response and coverage here feels disproportionate - for want of a better word. I don’t want that to sound heartless. Clearly a wife/mother/daughter/sister is missing and if she was mine, no response by the media or police would be over the top. But it’s definitely not typical.

ETA: JMO
 
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  • #673
So, disputes about clothes and string aside, it seems potential scenarios and limitaions are:

1. NB accidentally fell into the river near the bench, maybe after a medical episode or something to do with the dog.
2. NB accidentally fell into the river in a different spot to the bench.
3. NB was pushed into the river.
4. NB was never in the river
5. NB disappeared of her own volition
6. NB was attacked/abducted

Questions I would like answers to:

1. Why was NB classed as a high risk person? Yes we are not privy to everything, BUT, she was seemingly fit/well, and on a normal daily activity.
2. Why were the school phoned?
3. This big house, abandoned or not, is on the other side of the river so why is this such a topic of interest?
1. Unless I'm missing something, it's not that NB was classed as a high-risk person. It's that when she went missing, it would have been quickly escalated to a high-risk case because her disappearance was so out of character.
2. Not sure.
3. Because some people are desperate to turn this case into a whodunnit and will seize upon any theory, however implausible, to convince themselves of foul play.
 
  • #674
These threads are filling up really quickly with repeated information, questions and theories, and it's really frustrating. Is there a way we could put together some sort of FAQ we could refer people to? E.g. Fitbit - LE says this. MSM reports friend saying this. Some posters think X, some posters thing Y.

Just be thankful it's not the Pistorius case and you have to explain the law of Dolus Eventualis for the nth time ;)

But I agree. i think fitbit, bluetooth etc has been explained 1000 times now, and probably has no relevance to the case unless we find out more. My community suggestion is to suggest the media thread and search function for previously answered questions.
 
  • #675
No problem.
Regarding the risks of drowning per se - forget the very, very cold water angle just for now - are you also saying that the risk of drowning for accidental water entry is small when you say ' very low'?
There’s a huge difference between identifying a likely cause and warning against a low risk but potentially fatal hazard.

To decide upon a probable cause and more importantly to rule out other possibilities means you need to be fairly confident in that the explanation offered is vastly more likely than any of the others.

You can drown in a paddling pool, and there probably at least once reported account of someone drowning in a puddle. The odds of it happening are down to the circumstances.you need to look at the mechanism to understand the risk factors.

To drown you need to aspirate water. Unconsciousness, Restricted mobility, neurological impairment or developmental factors increase the risk.
A head injury is perhaps the most obvious cause.
How credible the drowning hypothesis is depends evaluation of the risk as opposed to other possibilities.

If the water was very deep at that point then the likelihood of an accidental head injury is lowered, the small risk of cold shock is raised because of the chance of sudden deeper immersion into colder water.
This is the reason police warn kids against swimming in deep chalk pit lakes in the summer.

However a huge number of youngsters and adults ignore the warnings every year and drownings are tragic but very rare.



The bank is grassy and if there was a rock or similar hard object you would expect it to be of forensic value. But if it’s something fitting the criteria has been found and removed for analysis by police I would be even more surprised and the outright rejection of third party involvement.

Shallow water blackout is an example of a hard to detect cause in recreational swimmers. It’s not really applicable in this case

What the investigators need to decide if the likelihood of all or any of these factors is substantial.


In young infants drowning a bath or paddling pool is tragic and incidents are well reported . Thankfully they are rare , but awareness of the danger likely prevents deaths even . In that case any overstatement of risk is something I approve of.

Ruling out third party involvement that early bid what drew my attention to the case.

You can for example drown as a result of a head injury directly or indirectly inflicted by a third party. There doesn’t need to necessarily be a blood at the scene.

There are other examples where death from a fall is more certain, figuring out wether third party involvement was a factor can be even more challenging. In the absence of evidence those cases are generally closed quickly.


Maybe I’m missing something but what I’m seeing, is no reports of any signs of entry at the bank, a strong swimmer fully clothed and no indication of severe intoxication cognitive impairment or other factors.

Now the river search has come up empty the explanation becomes less plausible. But even if she did drown , the circumstances suggest that third party involvement can’t really be ruled out. The otherwise low risk means it becomes a possibility that’s worth investigating.

Cases are regularly closed even when obvious criminality is involved. Behind the scenes the ratiionale is sometimes to bring closure for families when answers and or justice are likely to remain elusive.

It seems a but early for that approach, but in this case I’m not privy to any inside information.
 
  • #676
I know, so I guess if people aren't reading that they won't read a FAQ either. :rolleyes:

I think if it can be made short, it's a great idea.
( I think it's natural that people are more likely to read shorter posts & FAQs)
 
  • #677
Has it been reported if the mobile phone movements were constant? Do the police know if the mobile phone was static for any length of time prior to arriving at the bench at 9.20? Is it possible to obtain this level of information from a mobile phone? They know the phone was at the bench at 9.20 and remained there until it was found at 9.33(?)

No it's not been reported.

My inference, is they know where the phone was found at 9.33, so based on the lack of movement since 9.20 - they know that is when it was placed on the bench at 9.20

I think it is high probability, due to the streaming data connection - that they have her dog walk mapped near enough.
 
  • #678
There aren't any suspects or POIs
I may be speaking out of turn here but the person that found the dog/phone etc. is surely the 'first on the scene' after NB's apparent vanishing - does that not make that person a POI? I understand the police want the person protected and I have stated earlier I worry for that persons mental health with all the possible 'what if' scenarios that may be circulating in their own head.

I guess we'll just have to wait until more information surfaces, if ever.
 
  • #679
I may be speaking out of turn here but the person that found the dog/phone etc. is surely the 'first on the scene' after NB's apparent vanishing - does that not make that person a POI? I understand the police want the person protected and I have stated earlier I worry for that persons mental health with all the possible 'what if' scenarios that may be circulating in their own head.

I guess we'll just have to wait until more information surfaces, if ever.

No.

That makes her a witness.
 
  • #680
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