UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #11

[katydid23]

My grandmother kept all manner of "important" documents under the bed. 50 year old bank statements, tax documents, out of circulation coins and notes, jewelry and other totally pointless things.

Point I'm making is that people seem to judge what is "normal" by what either they do or what they perceive society considers normal.

There is no such thing as "normal" in my experience.

But this was a paper towel. Not a tax document, or foreign coins or jewellery. An old paper towel with scribbled notes from years ago.

 

[Marantz4250b]

hell if allot of people find food in cupboards that’s out of date by years that’s saying something I suppose

I have a jar of Cadbury Highlights powdered chocolate stuff in my cupboard which went out of date in March 2001 - when LL was eleven!

As I say above - there is no such thing as "normal" in this world.

 

[Marantz4250b]

But this was a paper towel. Not a tax document, or foreign coins or jewellery. An old paper towel with scribbled notes from years ago.

Again, though, it's impossible to attach any relevance to it in the absence of context. If it was in a pocket of a nurses tunic which was in the bag then its entirely explainable and not at all unusual.

We have no idea as to the circumstances under which it was found so to say it is relevant to guilt or innocence is founded on no rational basis.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I did not use the word "normal".
Just saying.

But by commenting negatively on the fact that it was found in a bag under a bed you were implying that it was not a normal place for such things to be.

 

[katydid23]

Again, though, it's impossible to attach any relevance to it in the absence of context. If it was in a pocket of a nurses tunic which was in the bag then its entirely explainable and not at all unusual.

We have no idea as to the circumstances under which it was found so to say it is relevant to guilt or innocence is founded on no rational basis.

I'd hope if it was found stuffed in the pocket of a nurse's tunic that would have been part of the testimony. It's true that we have not yet been given that context. But I hope the prosecutors would not be purposely deceitful by hiding that type of context from the jury.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I'd hope if it was found stuffed in the pocket of a nurse's tunic that would have been part of the testimony. It's true that we have not yet been given that context. But I hope the prosecutors would not be purposely deceitful by hiding that type of context from the jury.

They may have given a much fuller explanation which may not have been reported but we simply do not know. Given what has been reported, there is nothing to rationally conclude as to whether the existence of the note is nefarious or completely innocent in nature.

 

[Dotta]

But by commenting negatively on the fact that it was found in a bag under a bed you were implying that is was not a normal place for such things to be.

I can understand people from different era who kept precious possessions under their beds.

LL had a spacious 2 storey house.

But,
under her bed there was a bag with papers taken from hospital.
Now - is it even hygenic?

But then, the mother of one of the victims said the nurses in that particular hospital didn't even bother with washing their hands before handling vulnerable babies.

Surely you notice the difference between this situation and your Grannie.

By the way, I wouldn't recommend to drink this hot chocolate you mentioned haha

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

In all honesty I cant attach significance to anything found at her home. Nothing in the diary really. Two handover sheets and the notes for child m. The fb searches seem to be the most indicative but they seem to be few amongst many in terms of implications To guilt. If they could only find three souvenirs from the hospital and they weren’t found together it’s saying nothing as far as I’m concerned. As far as I know anyway.

also as far as I can see the handover sheets were not specific to any child in the charges. they seemed to contain so many names.

 

[Becci]

The weird part of the search for me is digging up her garden.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

The weird part of the search for me is digging up her garden.

I wonder what they were expecting to find there.

 

[Parker Knoll]

They were clearly looking for something.
I think it’s beyond odd to have paper towels with baby’s details on them under a bed years later amongst other documents … is that just YET another coincidence that on its own may not seem particularly relevant but coupled with everything else looks like it was kept very purposefully.

All MHO obviously.

 

[JosieJo]

They were clearly looking for something.
I think it’s beyond odd to have paper towels with baby’s details on them under a bed years later amongst other documents … is that just YET another coincidence that on its own may not seem particularly relevant but coupled with everything else looks like it was kept very purposefully.

All MHO obviously.

Yes exactly...how many "oddities" can be excused

 

[Legal]

I've hesitated about saying anything regarding the paper towel in the plastic bag under the bed because I am a very tidy and organised person and I know exactly where everything is in my house. I would hate to have things under my bed. However, she had just moved into a 3 bedroom house so I would have expected there to be at least one spare cupboard/ drawer where a person could shove random pieces of paper. But, I appreciate different inferences can be made depending on whether she is thought to be guilty or not.

Out of interest, I googled how long paper towels last, seeing as it was found 2 years after the events. It seems there is a risk that they can go mouldy but this can be mitigated if wrapped in plastic or a sealed container. So, if guilty she could have placed the paper towel in the plastic bag to preserve it.

Or, she could just be a messy person.

 

[katydid23]

Yes exactly...how many "oddities" can be excused

I think each individual 'oddity' can be excused and explained away. The problem is when you stack them all up, it doesn't make sense they are all just one/off random coincidences. The post-it notes are hard for me to totally explain away.

Another example, LL goes on vacation for 8 days, and no unexplained collapses or deaths in the NICU. She returns to work, and there is an unexplained death, 2 nights in a row. And an unexplained collapse on the 3rd night. [Babies O,P and Q]
These were the last 3 victims and she was removed from the floor after child Q collapsed.

Lucy Letby allegedly wrote a note saying 'I AM EVIL I DID THIS'

Hereford nurse denies murdering seven babies and trying to kill another 10

www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk

Referring back to the last two babies allegedly harmed by Ms Letby, the prosecutor alleged Child P was murdered the day after his brother, Child O, died by Ms Letby in late June 2016.

Child P had an ‘acute desaturation’, was intubated and improved, and efforts were made to relocate him to a different hospital. But during that, he desaturated again and was given treatment which saw his circulation be restored, but he continued to deteriorate, it was said.

Fifteen minutes before he was due to be taken to the other hospital, his blood gases were taken and appeared satisfactory.

“The doctor who was supervising his treatment was ‘optimistic’ for his prospects when all of a sudden Ms Letby said something like ‘he’s not leaving here alive is he’, which surprised him,” Mr Johnson said.

Prosecutors alleged she knew what she had done. Child P sadly collapsed again and all resuscitation attempts were unsuccessful. His cause of death was recorded as Sudden Unexpected Postnatal Collapse, jurors heard.

An independent medical expert reviewing the case concluded Child P had been injected with air through a nasogastric tube, describing it as the ‘only plausible explanation’.

The court heard that after he died, Ms Letby spent time with his parents and at one point took a photograph of both Child O and Child P together in a cot.

The next day, Ms Letby was the designated nurse for a baby boy, Child Q. It is alleged that Ms Letby injected him with air and a clear fluid in an ‘attempt to kill’ him.

Medical notes later showed that lots of clear fluid had been removed from his abdomen, it was said.

That night Ms Letby was ‘worried’ that people were becoming suspicious, the prosecutor said, as she sent a text message to a doctor asking: “Do I need to be worrying about what [the doctor] was asking?”.

 

[Kemug]

A not unlikely scenario; she's got a bloke coming round...."crap, the place is a mess, I'd better shove some stuff out of sight to make it look presentable". Loads of stuff then ends up in bags shoved anywhere out of immediate sight.

I can totally relate to that! Especially to shoving things under the bed to tidy up in haste! But I am pretty sure that in my case, a plastic bag with a few scraps of paper in it would as easily be shoved in the nearest rubbish receptacle or waste-paper basket.

 

[Kemug]

And besides, after having only moved house 4 days before, yes there could easily be legitimate mess in the form of cartons not yet unpacked for instance. But not the sort of mess where things are stuffed behind other things on flat surfaces, or thrown under beds. That doesn't normally happen. IMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

And besides, after having only moved house 4 days before, yes there could easily be legitimate mess in the form of cartons not yet unpacked for instance. But not the sort of mess where things are stuffed behind other things on flat surfaces, or thrown under beds. That doesn't normally happen. IMO.

She didn't move house four days before it was found, though. She moved two years before it was found. Plenty of time for stuff to migrate round the house.

Without knowing more as to the context of its finding, though, its impossible to know whether its existence implies guilt in anything.

 

[DianaWW]

She moved house four days before baby M's collapse. I agree we need more context (hopefully the jury were told more), and perhaps I find it so strange because I'm quite a tidy person JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

She moved house four days after baby M's collapse. So she moved this paperwork to the new house with her, rather than discarding it. I agree we need more context (hopefully the jury were told more), and perhaps I find it so strange because I'm quite a tidy person JMO

Four days before, I thought?

 

[DianaWW]

Four days before, I thought?

Yes you are right, apologies. So she didn't move it with her, it was the handover sheets she moved with her. I will edit my post, thank you.