UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[WaxLyrical]

The timing of the search for K feels to me like she was either tipped off or had heard whispers about it considering it was the big one that Dr J ‘caught her in the act’ with. JMO.

 

[esther43]

Oh, ok, got it. It is interesting that she looked up that family when she was already off the floor. [and not been charged yet]

I'd always wondered about that dropped charge. I wonder if maybe there were underlying medical issues that contributed to the death so they decided it better to drop murder charges or it might muddy the waters on the other accusations too ?

I am curious to hear if defense brings out other FB searches she may have made---perhaps some families who left with healthy surviving children?

Probably as you say, trouble with linking causation but I think that originally there were two charges for child K both murder and attempted murder (as with child I) this makes it sound as though there were two incidents and not one.
In relation to the FB searches, It will be interesting to see if there were others but if there were, I'm not sure it would completely dilute the significance of the afore mentioned pattern in searches.
I find the search pattern is almost 'accumalative' looking back on old incidents prior to future incidents unfolding. One could see it as a repertoire of events that somehow chronologically link together in the mind of LL.

 

[esther43]

The timing of the search for K feels to me like she was either tipped off or had heard whispers about it considering it was the big one that Dr J ‘caught her in the act’ with. JMO.

Yes, it could been rumours, never thought of that but then surely if this was the case then when the police asked her why she carried out the search she would have stated that.

 

[Dotta]

I find the search pattern is almost 'accumalative' looking back on old incidents prior to future incidents unfolding. One could see it as a repertoire of events that somehow chronologically link together in the mind of LL.

If guilty...

"Looking back at old incidents prior to future ones" might mean "getting into particular state of mind".

Like "warming up".

Or

Looking at older cases might have not been enough - the compulsion demanded new "thrills".

Compulsions are repetitive behaviours.
A person is driven by obsession.

JMO

 

[esther43]

If guilty...

"Looking back at old incidents prior to future ones" might mean "getting into particular state of mind".

Like "warming up".

Or
Looking at older cases might have not been enough - the compulsion demanded new "thrills".

Compulsions are repetitive behaviours.

JMO

True, the previous searches fit more 'compulsion' if the case of the prosecution is proven to be accurate. Particularly when you note that unlike when the other searches occured, when looking up child K, presumably she did not search for others at the same time. Was this because she was in a different mind set, different circumstances, searching for different reasons than she did before?

 

[esther43]

problems that one doesn’t know about is not something one has to take responsibility for. Obviously it takes more than being blamed for something to be responsible for it. I don’t know how you construed that article as self blame making an individual responsible for something. The entire article revolves around taking responsibility for what you did do and not being blamed for things you didn’t. the gyst of it is that you stop self blaming for things you didn’t do by taking responsibility for what you did do. In essence taking responsibility removes the doubt that causes the self blame. Self blaming is normally part of an inquisitive process that makes one look at something to find out if indeed one is responsible for its occurrence. Unfortunately as an example if a pregnant woman isn’t able to bring the baby into the world that so often involves blaming themselves for something well outside of their zone of control. It’s just realising what is within ones zone of control that makes people stop self blaming. People blame themselves when they don’t know the actual reason for the events under question to have happened. Not everyone who blames themselves is responsible for the event ie a pregnant woman.

as I said the note mentions the word “killed” but it does not say harmed. There is no reference to the collapses, suggesting but not proof of her not knowing the collapses are held under the same suspicion as the deaths.

There are no references to the harm she caused in this note but seemingly lots of reference to the allegedly 'harmed' families of the victims in the Facebook searches.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I am hoping we are going to get some answers in the next couple of weeks on lots of loose threads.
I feel like I have been following this trial for YEARS and then I realise that I have actually !
Not remotely interested in the coronation just delighted Meghan has decided to stay stateside

 

[WaxLyrical]

I am hoping for some context on the FB searches when the defence presents. They’ve already said she searched for lots of families, her searching wasn’t limited to the babies in this trial. If it turns out she searched for 150 families, then it would be odd if some of these babies didn’t appear in her search history.

Furthermore, when you look at some of the timings, she’s spending less than a minute on their FB page, which doesn’t seem to fit with someone seeking enjoyment from people’s grief, it’s more like a quick check in. Putting aside the gross invasion of privacy, I feel like I’d probably have expected her to search these families more frequently than she did.

I do however recognise that her patterns of searching suggest a link in her mind between some of the babies in this case, irrespective of whether they died or not. JMO.

 

[Parker Knoll]

There is definitely linkage. When you see Katy’s post upthread with the FB search timelines it really does send a chill down your spine.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Would be interesting to see how ll work shift pattern fitted within the context of babies that survived the alleged attempts. So in those cases if she didn’t really have an opportunity to try again.

 

[katydid23]

I'm just a casual observer and don't know all the particulars of these accusations , so pay no attention to me.

But it does seem that if the prosecution had strong evidence of Letby's guilt this would be an "open and shut" case and the trial would be concluded in less than a week.

I've served on jury duty before and I felt good about the decisions we reached, but if I were on this jury I'd be pretty well fed up with the whole thing by now.

There are 22 separate charges for 17 different newborns. Babies A through Q. How could you set forth evidence for 22 charges covering 17 babies in 7 days?

The whole point of this case is the prosecution took years to put the case together because of the complexity. The defendant, IF guilty, allegedly camouflaged her malicious actions and it took dozens of investigators and medical experts to decipher and uncover the incidents.

 

[katydid23]

I'm just a casual observer and don't know all the particulars of these accusations , so pay no attention to me.

But it does seem that if the prosecution had strong evidence of Letby's guilt this would be an "open and shut" case and the trial would be concluded in less than a week.

I've served on jury duty before and I felt good about the decisions we reached, but if I were on this jury I'd be pretty well fed up with the whole thing by now.

There are 22 separate charges for 17 different newborns. Babies A through Q. How could you set forth evidence for 22 charges covering 17 babies in 7 days?

The whole point of this case is the prosecution took years to put the case together because of the complexity. The defendant, IF guilty, allegedly camouflaged her malicious actions and it took dozens of investigators and medical experts to decipher and uncover the many incidents.

I am sure the jurors are pretty sick of the whole thing by now, I am. But it has to be sorted out for justice to be done, innocent or guilty. JMO

 

[marynnu]

Just a bit of musing! Several members have commented on the fact that (if guilty) LL didn't appear to do medical research on things like air embolism etc. I personally don't find this remotely surprising, as I can't see any reason why she would. For me, it all smacks more of doing something to see what happens than calmly planning to get away with murder. JMO.

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Just a bit of musing! Several members have commented on the fact that (if guilty) LL didn't appear to do medical research on things like air embolism etc. I personally don't find this remotely surprising, as I can't see any reason why she would. For me, it all smacks more of doing something to see what happens than calmly planning to get away with murder. JMO.

I thought it was quite widely known that injection air into someone's arterial system is dangerous.

 

[Dotta]

Just a bit of musing! Several members have commented on the fact that (if guilty) LL didn't appear to do medical research on things like air embolism etc. I personally don't find this remotely surprising, as I can't see any reason why she would. For me, it all smacks more of doing something to see what happens than calmly planning to get away with murder. JMO.

Besides, she watched BBC programme about dangers of AirE and checked info about haemophilia - according to her texts.

 

[JosieJo]

Just a bit of musing! Several members have commented on the fact that (if guilty) LL didn't appear to do medical research on things like air embolism etc. I personally don't find this remotely surprising, as I can't see any reason why she would. For me, it all smacks more of doing something to see what happens than calmly planning to get away with murder. JMO.

I agree totally...air embolus, insulin overdose and dislodging breathing equipment would not need researching by a nurse

 

[marynnu]

Besides, she watched BBC programme about dangers of AirE and checked info about haemophilia - according to her texts.

True, though there's nothing suspicious about her researching haemophilia. You almost never come across it on NNUs, so I'd probably have done the same!

 

[esther43]

There are 22 separate charges for 17 different newborns. Babies A through Q. How could you set forth evidence for 22 charges covering 17 babies in 7 days?

The whole point of this case is the prosecution took years to put the case together because of the complexity. The defendant, IF guilty, allegedly camouflaged her malicious actions and it took dozens of investigators and medical experts to decipher and uncover the many incidents.

I am sure the jurors are pretty sick of the whole thing by now, I am. But it has to be sorted out for justice to be done, innocent or guilty. JMO

When this case first started out, I thought the defence was going to go on for a similar amount of time and at least try to bring a similar number of experts and witnesses for each baby.
But if you ask me it became pretty clear quite early on that they are not going to find a medical witness that can refute the science in the vast majority of these cases.
If somebody else was implicated it could take the spotligh

Just a bit of musing! Several members have commented on the fact that (if guilty) LL didn't appear to do medical research on things like air embolism etc. I personally don't find this remotely surprising, as I can't see any reason why she would. For me, it all smacks more of doing something to see what happens than calmly planning to get away with murder. JMO.

Well true, when you think about it noone is going to Google 'impact on AE on newborn baby'
That would perhaps be like someone carrying out knife crime googling the impact of knife penetration on the internal organs.

 

[katydid23]

I agree totally...air embolus, insulin overdose and dislodging breathing equipment would not need researching by a nurse

Even I know the basics about those 3 things and I am not trained in healthcare. It was very surprising that she told LE she didn't know about air embolisms. That seems hard to believe that someone trained to set up IV lines would not know about that.

 

[ColourPurple]

Just a bit of musing! Several members have commented on the fact that (if guilty) LL didn't appear to do medical research on things like air embolism etc. I personally don't find this remotely surprising, as I can't see any reason why she would. For me, it all smacks more of doing something to see what happens than calmly planning to get away with murder. JMO.

True. She had no reason to look them up. She was a nurse! Somebody used the word experimenting before and, if guilty, I think that's exactly what she was doing. Finding ways to kill the babies and perfecting and varying her methods through trial and error.

If guilty, keeping the record of the number of adrenaline injections Baby M had needed to survive during resus, and then forgetting/not updating exactly how many injections of adrenaline baby O had had during resus(six), could be part of that too.

The infant, known as Child M, suddenly collapsed in room 1 of the unit at 4pm as he stopped breathing and his heart rate and blood oxygen levels dipped.Chest compressions commenced when he failed to respond, and six doses of adrenaline were required before his heart rate eventually rose to safe levels about 30 minutes later...the paper towel – along with a blood gas measurement report for Child M – was discovered in a Morrisons shopping bag beneath a bed in a bedroom at the defendant’s former address in Westbourne Road, Chester, on July 4 2018
-------
Child O continued to deteriorate, and a Dr John Gibbs was called to the unit, who asked Lucy Letby how many shots of adrenaline had been administered, and Lucy said she was not sure, three or four. Dr Gibbs replied: "Well, what was it, Three or four?" Lucy Letby appeared to be referring to a scrap of paper for records which had yet to be updated.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, March 8

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.northwalespioneer.co.uk

Note detailing baby’s medication was in Lucy Letby’s home, court told

A “LIVE” note of medications given to a baby boy while he fought for his life was later found under a bed at the home of nurse Lucy Letby, her…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

All IMO, if gulty etc