UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

[Dotta]

Blimey Dotta, it's not that bad! Not as bad as being surrounded by a load of schoolkids, my God, there's a vision of hell.

That is why we BOTH will go straight to Heaven, b/c we are saints hahaha

 

[ColourPurple]

Her replies to these questions are so contradictory. Huge slip up here imo.
If guilty etc.

I'm assuming the first interviews were taking place before/during the search of her home, so she was hedging her bets by trying to play everything down, unaware of how thorough the searches would be.

 

[marynnu]

That is why we BOTH will go straight to Heaven, b/c we are saints hahaha

Just to be serious for a minute, when I was working on NNU I often said to people that the only thing which kept you going was seeing babies go home with their parents. Successes overwhelmingly outweigh bad outcomes - normally. Which makes my heart go out to everyone involved, what a nightmare.

 

[Kemug]

I think there is also a pattern with Mel Taylor, who handed over baby A to LL and for whom doctors could establish no reason for her to have died. If guilty, I think this could have been uppermost in LL's mind, with the babies who subsequently collapsed/died on MT's shifts.

This just gets worse and worse! And if this about MT and AH turns out to be true, then why? Was it just to take the heat off LL? Or was it partly out of spite and jealousy of those other nurses? If so, it was not only the babies who were in danger. And if all this should be true, then LL would be even more of a danger to the public if free. I hope it isn't so, things are quite bad enough as it is.

 

[ColourPurple]

This is why I say, with a full set of handover sheets, if guilty, LL could have used them to create a plan of which babies to target. For instance, hypothetically speaking and if she's guilty, she might have wanted to create the impression that every time a certain nurse has a certain baby it collapses under their care, so implicating another nurse, in any investigation. Baby I is an example where this could have been the case, with Ashleigh Hudson being her designated nurse on the shifts spanning several weeks when she collapsed and when she died. All she would need to do for her next attack, hypothetically, would be to know this fact and wait for the next time she is on shift with AH being the designated nurse for the same baby.
JMO

It was also Baby I that LL asked if she could keep being designated nurse for on her next shift (after allegedly having already attempted to murder her 3 times)

In WhatsApp messages read to the court, Ms Letby asked a colleague on the afternoon of 14 October if Child I was staying on the unit.
She added: "I'd like to keep her please."

Her colleague, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, replied: "Yes. Staying for now. OK re keeping."

An hour later the colleague messaged: "I've had to re-allocate. Sorry."
Ms Letby said: "Has something happened?"

The colleague replied: "No. Was just asked to reallocate so no one has her for more than one night at a time. Or one shift. Not just night."

Ms Letby responded: "Yeah that's understandable."

The prosecution alleges Ms Letby, originally from Hereford, murdered Child I in the early hours of 23 October after earlier bids on 30 September, 13 and 14 October.

Lucy Letby: Baby had unusual skin mottling, trial hears

Nurse Lucy Letby is accused of murdering the premature baby girl after three earlier attempts.

www.bbc.co.uk

All JMO if guilty

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

What are these "...many instances..."? I can't think of any, quite honestly. Also, I don't understand what you mean by "are instead given life sentences, with a minimum period of life imprisonment.". That doesn't seem to make much sense, sorry.

The judge gave very clear reasoning as to why Chua in the Stepping Hill case didn't get a WLO;

"...it is said that he did not intend to cause death; that may be so and that – and that alone – saves him from a whole life sentence..."

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/r-v-chua-sentencing.pdf

You're right. That last part, which you helpfully highlighted, does not make sense - and should have read as 'a minimum period of imprisonment.'

It seems pointless going around in circles, with so many unknown factors at this stage.

Whilst I might welcome a whole life term from an emtional standpoint, experience tells me that a whole life order is absolutely not the definitive sentencing order here, and although I accept it is certainly a possibility, it seems far more likely that a life sentence with a minimum term of imprisonment of 30+ years would be the actual outcome.

You have made up your mind that it must be a whole life order and that's fine, whether that comes from a place of (justified) outrage, or is purely based on logic is not for me to say. I just honestly wouldn't hold your breath if I were you.

 

[Marantz4250b]

You're right. That last part, which you helpfully highlighted, does not make sense - and should have read as 'a minimum period of imprisonment.'

It seems pointless going around in circles, with so many unknown factors at this stage.

Whilst I might welcome a whole life term from an emtional standpoint, experience tells me that a whole life order is absolutely not the definitive sentencing order here, and although I accept it is certainly a possibility, it seems far more likely that a life sentence with a minimum term of imprisonment of 30+ years would be the actual outcome.

You have made up your mind that it must be a whole life order and that's fine, whether that comes from a place of (justified) outrage, or is purely based on logic is not for me to say. I just honestly wouldn't hold your breath if I were you.

No one has said that it is the "...definitive sentencing order...". I don't know why you are suggesting that they have.

I'm sorry but I've said nothing of the sort in relation to the second highlighted statement.

 

[Dotta]

Look what's here!

"We are stuck in the corner together
The box and me - merry shredder"

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[LondonBloke]

Does/did the shredder still work? I have one in my flat that hasn't worked for years, because I don't know how to dispose of it 'properly'. I do use the base bin for collecting recyclable soft plastic however.

 

[esther43]

Look what's here!

"We are stuck in the corner together
The box and me - merry shredder"


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Woah. The shredder had its own bedroom.

 

[Dotta]

DBM

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

I simply cannot see any alternative; if she's convicted on multiple counts then calling it anything other than "exceptionally serious" is simply impossible to contemplate.

No one has said that it is the "...definitive sentencing order...". I don't know why you are suggesting that they have.

I'm sorry but I've said nothing of the sort in relation to the second highlighted statement.

We seem to be more or less in agreement, despite the confusing and borderline contradictory nature of the above two sentences.

 

[marynnu]

Does/did the shredder still work? I have one in my flat that hasn't worked for years, because I don't know how to dispose of it 'properly'. I do use the base bin for collecting recyclable soft plastic however.

Shredders are a pain. I personally don't care about the shredder. I understand it'll be in the witness box tomorrow, however.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

Shredders are a pain. I personally don't care about the shredder. I understand it'll be in the witness box tomorrow, however.

It's finally back from it's travels to Ibiza then, I see.

 

[esther43]

It's finally back from it's travels to Ibiza then, I see.

Are you suggesting the shredder and the Ibiza bag have somehow been in cahoots?

 

[katydid23]

You are right, a whole life term is not out of the question, by any means.

However, despite the alleged offender being, (IF convicted of three or more murders) essentially a serial killer, it is unlikely in this case.



You are also right, in some aspects, regards the basic guidelines for whom a whole life term might be applied.



What must also be understood, is the judge has to take into account the totality of the offences - a plethora of factors in terms of aggravating and mitigating circumstances must be weighed against one another, hence the scales of justice.



The guidelines, set out in black and white, barely break the surface.



The judge should use their discretion, and when handing down a particularly long sentence, will often air somewhat on the side of caution in terms of applying a whole life term. Which partly explains why so few whole life terms are ever ordered.



In this instance the accused was above the age of 21, which is the minimum age a whole life order can be applied, but still of rather young age (approx 25).

This is likely to weigh heavily on a judges mind when taking into consideration applying a whole life term.



The other point worth mentioning is whether or not the accused is found guilty of all charges. If not, leniency could well be applied in terms of sentencing, to an extent. Meaning a life sentence as opposed to whole life order.

The defendant may have only been about 25, but her victims were newborns, mostly premature babies, the most vulnerable victims possible. That would count against her, imo.

Also, some of the victims are now totally disabled and suffer on a daiily basis, along with their families who must watch their suffering everyday. And learn to cope with the aftermath.

The defendant was in a very trusted position held in high esteem by the public. We are trusting the neonatal nurses with our most prized possessions and do so with total faith and confidence. She [allegedly] exploited that power in a very cruel, callous and deceitful way.

To secretly assault a child and then brazenly pretend to be the saviour and take praise and credit for reviving a child they tried to kill is so evil. It is hard to accept it really happened.

Whomever committed theses crimes, is one of the cruelest, most calculating, heartless killers in recent history. Who attacks and kills numerous innocent newborns for no apparent reason?

If found guilty of any of these murder charges, I think they deserve the full count of a life term. Who really cares if it is guilty for 3 murders and 4 attempted murders or all of them? JMO

 

[crystalline]

Shredders are a pain. I personally don't care about the shredder. I understand it'll be in the witness box tomorrow, however.

I would hate to be the forensic person piecing together the contents of what may have already been shredded....I mean that must happen in police investigations...right?

 

[esther43]

The defendant may have only been about 25, but her victims were newborns, mostly premature babies, the most vulnerable victims possible. That would count against her, imo.

Also, some of the victims are now totally disabled and suffer on a daiily basis, along with their families who must watch their suffering everyday. And learn to cope with the aftermath.

The defendant was in a very trusted position held in high esteem by the public. We are trusting the neonatal nurses with our most prized possessions and do so with total faith and confidence. She exploited that power in a very cruel, callous and deceitful way.

To secretly assault a child and then brazenly pretend to be the saviour and take praise and credit for reviving a child they tried to kill is so evil. It is hard to accept it really happened.

Whomever committed theses crimes, is one of the cruelest, most calculating, heartless killers in recent history. Who attacks and kills numerous innocent newborns for no apparent reason?

If found guilty of any of these murder charges, I think they deserve the full count of a life term. Who really cares if it is guilty for 3 murders and 4 attempted murders or all of them? JMO

Couldn't agree more. The vulnerability of the Mother's is also a key consideration. When is a Mother more vulnerable other than when she given birth to a sick or preterm baby?
The hormones, the stress and fear is very real, for the Father's too of course.
Not to mention the number of hardworking professionals that are living a dog's life working in the NHS at the best of times. That is frustrating, not least because we need these people to be there. People think NHS staff are easily replaceable, they are not, their working conditions are bad enough already and so many quitting. Jmo.

 

[Anxala]

DBM

 

[Anxala]

Or you could argue equally that everyone is fine to start with but being a health care professional drives you slowly mad.......

O/T but Adam Kay's 'This is Going to Hurt', so 'laughter in the dark' brilliantly and violent anger-makingly and heart-breakingly attests to that.

I laughed and cried my eyes out while reading it. It left such a lasting impact.