UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

[ColourPurple]

I don't want to appear callous but it all sounds like a "sob story".

But I don't mind - she is testifying!
Wow

Yes, we all know that being woken up and arrested early in the morning would be a shock to the system and that being accused by police of killing babies would be horrific but the fact that LL's saying she found that so, tells us nothing about her guilt or innocence.

IMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

I honestly feel like there are two people on trial here, one who’s guilty and one who’s not guilty.

It’s the insulin evidence that is the hardest part for me, the notes I don’t really care about either way, I don’t see them as particularly damning or a confession tbh. But the insulin, someone deliberately gave those babies synthetic insulin, if it wasn’t letby then who?

Fully agree. Everything hinges on the insulin cases in my opinion. I’ve never really been persuaded by the notes, Facebook searches etc.

And with the insulin cases, the nurse who said she would have changed the TPN bag threw a spanner in the works.

But either way, the insulin cases show something was going on on the ward, and weren’t uncovered until long after they were already suspicious of Letby.

JMO.

 

[katydid23]

I can see how someone who's traumatised by all this might make the link from being incompetent to that essentially equating to doing something on purpose. I mean, if you know or think you're making life changing bad decisions due to some problem you aren't confronting then it's basically the same as doing something on purpose.

If you get drunk, drive home and kill someone then you didn't actually kill them on purpose but it's the same thing, to all intents and purposes.

I can see how someone's mind might go there under these circumstances, tbh.

First of all, she was not incompetent. By all accounts she was highly skilled, very calm and measured under stress and considered an elite nurse.

But even if she was incompetent, that wouldn't mean she could have accidentally tainted TPN bags with insulin, cause internal bleeding multiple times, create air embolisms repeatedly, and do so to twins and triplets on back to back nights.

These incidents were malicious and purposeful. JMO

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

Or someone made an innocent mistake.

Or someone misheard, mispoke, misremembered.
These little pieces of fairly irrelevant evidence are not going to amount to a great deal in a multiple murder case, are they?

It's also possible that the other nurse lied. People do that.
JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

The thing is, though, that in the way it was written it makes no sense. From memory it was something like "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them". It's contradictory. It could imply that she thinks that being incompetent and continuing to practise is synonymous with "on purpose", though.

It's not contradictory if the not good enough refers to not being good enough to be in room 1 or with the sickest babies or to be a band 6 etc.

IMO

 

[ColourPurple]

I honestly feel like there are two people on trial here, one who’s guilty and one who’s not guilty.

It’s the insulin evidence that is the hardest part for me, the notes I don’t really care about either way, I don’t see them as particularly damning or a confession tbh. But the insulin, someone deliberately gave those babies synthetic insulin, if it wasn’t letby then who?

And the twin brothers of both of the insulin case babies were both allegedly injected with air, who did that? , and who allegedly also injected other babies with air?
JMO

 

[BabaVanga]

I can see how someone who's traumatised by all this might make the link from being incompetent to that essentially equating to doing something on purpose. I mean, if you know or think you're making life changing bad decisions due to some problem you aren't confronting then it's basically the same as doing something on purpose.

If you get drunk, drive home and kill someone then you didn't actually kill them on purpose but it's the same thing, to all intents and purposes.

I can see how someone's mind might go there under these circumstances, tbh.

Most people I’m guessing would say I killed them by accident in that case not on purpose.

 

[Marantz4250b]

First of all, she was not incompetent. By all accounts she was highly skilled, very calm and measured under stress and considered an elite nurse.

But even if she was incompetent, that wouldn't mean she could have accidentally tainted TPN bags with insulin, cause internal bleeding multiple times, create air embolisms repeatedly, and do so to twins and triplets on back to back nights.

These incidents were malicious and purposeful. JMO

I know she wasn't but she was being told that she was as being the reason for her redeployment. She was informed of that by letter from the NMWC in September 2016.

So, when your governing body formally tells you that you're being investigated for killing babies because you're incompetent then you'd naturally start to question youself.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Or someone misheard, mispoke, misremembered.
These little pieces of fairly irrelevant evidence are not going to amount to a great deal in a multiple murder case, are they?

It's also possible that the other nurse lied. People do that.
JMO

But ridiculously unlikely given the seriousness of this case. And, for what purpose?

 

[DianaWW]

Posted at 11:4511:45

The court is taking a short break​

Judith Moritz
Inside the courtroom
The jury are told that there'll be a 15 minute break, and the evidence will be heard in one hour sessions.
Judge Goss says: "You've heard the defendant has a long day, and she'll be in the witness box for a long time, so there'll be appropriate breaks."

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

And the twin brothers of both of the insulin case babies were both allegedly injected with air, who did that? , and who allegedly also injected other babies with air?
JMO

It is not for the defence to prove, or even to suggest, who might have done what to whom.

The defence need to merely cast doubt in the mind of the jury as to whether there is enough factual or circumstantial evidence to support the theory that their client did what they are being accused of.

JMO

 

[esther43]

Intriguing that all the deaths occured more or less as soon as she returned from placement at Liverpool womens.

Letby obtained her 'QIS' qualification allowing her to look after intensive care babies, following a university module, which included a placement at Liverpool Women's Hospital involving hands-on clinical experience. The six-month course concluded in March/April 2015.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Most people I’m guessing would say I killed them by accident in that case not on purpose.

To be honest, most people (adults) wouldn't phrase it by using the words "on purpose" at all, IMO. They might if they were highly distressed and traumatised, perhaps?

 

[katydid23]

The thing is, though, that in the way it was written it makes no sense. From memory it was something like "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them". It's contradictory. It could imply that she thinks that being incompetent and continuing to practise is synonymous with "on purpose", though.

OR it could mean exactly what it literally says----"I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them".

"I killed them on purpose[ by attacking them] because I'm not good enough to care for them".[ because I am not a good enough person to care about them]

possible translation:
I purposely killed them because I don't really care about them.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Posted at 11:4511:45

The court is taking a short break​

Judith Moritz
Inside the courtroom
The jury are told that there'll be a 15 minute break, and the evidence will be heard in one hour sessions.
Judge Goss says: "You've heard the defendant has a long day, and she'll be in the witness box for a long time, so there'll be appropriate breaks."

I think I might re-assess my prediction of a June finish to this! I reckon the nights will be well drawing in before this is done and dusted!

 

[DianaWW]

I think I might re-assess my prediction of a June finish to this! I reckon the nights will be well drawing in before this is done and dusted!

Nothing would surprise me at this point!

 

[ColourPurple]

It is not for the defence to prove, or even to suggest, who might have done what to whom.

The defence need to merely doubt in the mind of the jury as to whether there is enough factual or circumstantial evidence to support the theory that their client did what they are being accused of.

JMO

I wasn't suggesting it was for the defence to do that, at all. I think we all know that !

I was pointing out that both babies in the insulin case also had had twins who were allegedly injected with air, and that others babies allegedly were too.

There were only two nurses who were on shift for both insulin cases.

 

[notsure]

It must be so weird for the jury to hear her speaking after all this time. I wish the reporters would describe factors such as her tone of voice and body language, which are as important as the words themselves.

 

[Marantz4250b]

OR it could mean exactly what it literally says----"I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them".

"I killed them on purpose[ by attacking them] because I'm not good enough to care for them".[ because I am not a good enough person to care about them]

possible translation:
I purposely killed them because I don't really care about them.

It could indeed. Yet it contradicts the other "I haven't done anything wrong" statements.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

But ridiculously unlikely given the seriousness of this case. And, for what purpose?

People lie, it's what some people do. We must all know of compulsive liars. I've lost count of how many I've met.
There really doesn't need to be a purpose.

Another possiblity is that the other nurse is recalling a false, or modified memory. I expect when most people have found negative, unexpected things out about people they are likely to recall past events in less favourable ways than how they would have previously.
Partly human nature, partly due to the limitations of memory itself.

JMO