UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

[Sweeper2000]

Yes but I doubt this is a completely false memory. It's more likely that either LL was hovering at a different time, and she was mistaken about the time. Or it could be a different nurse not LL was hovering, and she was therefore mistaken as to identity. It's unlikely that the entire event was false.

I think that’s a misidentification. I would be very interested to see if ll face was put on someone else’s body as a result of her picture being in the news or something like that.

 

[Becky53]

13:50

Court to resume shortly​

We're expecting proceedings to get under way again soon as the court returns from lunch.
We'll be bringing you the latest as Lucy Letby continues to be cross-examined, so stay with us.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65602988

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes but I doubt this is a completely false memory. It's more likely that either LL was hovering at a different time, and she was mistaken about the time. Or it could be a different nurse not LL was hovering, and she was therefore mistaken as to identity. It's unlikely that the entire event was false.

And it wasn't a traumatic memory either. She just didn't like LL/the nurse hovering around when she wanted some privacy with her new baby. She said it was around 7pm. The defence say it couldn't have been LL as she didnt arrive at the hospital till around half hour later.

 

[ShireChe]

13:50

Court to resume shortly​

We're expecting proceedings to get under way again soon as the court returns from lunch.
We'll be bringing you the latest as Lucy Letby continues to be cross-examined, so stay with us.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65602988

Something I picked up from the live feed:

We first heard from the prosecution, who set out their evidence, and a summary can be found here.

The defence has also set out its arguments - this included hearing from Lucy Letby herself. She is now being cross-examined by prosecutors for a third day.

When this section of the trial is complete, the defence will have a chance to ask one final set of questions before the judge summarises the evidence and asks the jury to retire to consider its verdict.

Seems to almost be suggesting the defence won't be introducing experts? Or is that what the 'final set of questions' refers to?

 

[ColourPurple]

Court delayed​

There is a delay to this afternoon's proceedings.
We will bring you more updates as we get them.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[ColourPurple]

Court delayed​

There is a delay to this afternoon's proceedings - court will not restart for at least 30 minutes.
We will bring you more updates as we get them.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Dcflag]

Yes I think we should keep in mind that pretty much everyone testified that they’d never known a baby to live so long after resuscitation attempts ceased. So it was unprecedented in that sense.

I would think there is some kind of protocol to move a child into a cold cot as soon as practicable? I’m just thinking from the perspective of preservation for post mortems etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was an air of awkwardness and just generally unawareness of what to do by some of the nurses.

Also, while I appreciate people are raising Letby’s seeming arrogance at questioning the decision to put Sophie Ellis in charge of Baby C, I think I would be horrified if my own child was placed into the care of a brand new nurse in these circumstances, irrespective of whether they had oversight. At this point he weighed little over 700g, waaaay below the threshold for COCH, was having black aspirates, had a lung infection .. I’d be expecting their most competent and/or senior nurse to be on the case for that, not using the baby as training for a new start.

JMO.

I received my sons “memory box” when I signed his death certificate several days later (I say memory box, it was hand and footprints and some hair).

He had come into a&e by ambulance and resus didn’t work (was probably about an hour in total). After they stopped resus they gave him straight to me, and I was allowed him for as long as I wanted. There was no rush for a cold cot or to preserve him. No one was hovering or trying to get his handprints. I think the only thing they said to me was that they would need someone to look at his eyes within a few hours as eyes are something that does start changing very soon after death. When they did that, a nurse held him, I was present. I think I was with him for 6-8 hours post death before I went home? As he was an unexpected infant death he was automatically supposed to have a post-mortem, so at that time that’s what we were expecting.

For a baby who has spent 5 hours dying and who’s heart stops in his mothers arms, there’s no reason at all I can think of that they would need the baby to be in a cold cot immediately, post mortem or not. And as far as I’m concerned there’s no reason to do any hand or footprints, surely they could be done before admitting to the mortuary? From my limited knowledge I actually assumed all babies were carried to the mortuary by someone as well opposed to being wheeled. I wonder who did that for all of these cases.

 

[Tortoise]

2:07pm

We have been told court will not be resuming until 2.30pm.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 19 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

something's upset her IMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

I received my sons “memory box” when I signed his death certificate several days later (I say memory box, it was hand and footprints and some hair).

He had come into a&e by ambulance and resus didn’t work (was probably about an hour in total). After they stopped resus they gave him straight to me, and I was allowed him for as long as I wanted. There was no rush for a cold cot or to preserve him. No one was hovering or trying to get his handprints. I think the only thing they said to me was that they would need someone to look at his eyes within a few hours as eyes are something that does start changing very soon after death. When they did that, a nurse held him, I was present. I think I was with him for 6-8 hours post death before I went home? As he was an unexpected infant death he was automatically supposed to have a post-mortem, so at that time that’s what we were expecting.

For a baby who has spent 5 hours dying and who’s heart stops in his mothers arms, there’s no reason at all I can think of that they would need the baby to be in a cold cot immediately, post mortem or not. And as far as I’m concerned there’s no reason to do any hand or footprints, surely they could be done before admitting to the mortuary? From my limited knowledge I actually assumed all babies were carried to the mortuary by someone as well opposed to being wheeled. I wonder who did that for all of these cases.

Thank you for outlining your experience, it’s given me some much needed context.

I am so sorry this happened to you, life can be so cruel x

 

[Becky53]

14:09

Delay in hearing restarting after lunch​

There's been a delay in restarting the court proceedings after lunch.
We'll be bringing you the latest from Manchester Crown Court when the hearing gets under way again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65602988

Early lunch request by LL and now delay???

 

[JosieJo]

something's upset her IMO

Yep it was just a matter of time before she felt "unwell" in my sceptical opinion only

 

[Jazmania]

Something I picked up from the live feed:

We first heard from the prosecution, who set out their evidence, and a summary can be found here.

The defence has also set out its arguments - this included hearing from Lucy Letby herself. She is now being cross-examined by prosecutors for a third day.

When this section of the trial is complete, the defence will have a chance to ask one final set of questions before the judge summarises the evidence and asks the jury to retire to consider its verdict.

Seems to almost be suggesting the defence won't be introducing experts? Or is that what the 'final set of questions' refers to?

It kind of does suggest that, but I would be shocked if they didn't have other witnesses to bring out. Also the judge gave an estimated end date as July, and Letby isn't going to be on the stand for that long!

 

[esther43]

Dbm

 

[Jazmania]

I received my sons “memory box” when I signed his death certificate several days later (I say memory box, it was hand and footprints and some hair).

He had come into a&e by ambulance and resus didn’t work (was probably about an hour in total). After they stopped resus they gave him straight to me, and I was allowed him for as long as I wanted. There was no rush for a cold cot or to preserve him. No one was hovering or trying to get his handprints. I think the only thing they said to me was that they would need someone to look at his eyes within a few hours as eyes are something that does start changing very soon after death. When they did that, a nurse held him, I was present. I think I was with him for 6-8 hours post death before I went home? As he was an unexpected infant death he was automatically supposed to have a post-mortem, so at that time that’s what we were expecting.

For a baby who has spent 5 hours dying and who’s heart stops in his mothers arms, there’s no reason at all I can think of that they would need the baby to be in a cold cot immediately, post mortem or not. And as far as I’m concerned there’s no reason to do any hand or footprints, surely they could be done before admitting to the mortuary? From my limited knowledge I actually assumed all babies were carried to the mortuary by someone as well opposed to being wheeled. I wonder who did that for all of these cases.

So sorry for your loss and for relating your experience x

 

[Tortoise]

Does anyone know what Mr Johnson is on about when he said dr marnerides was not the only doctor to find an air bubble?

could have sworn that isn’t true or isn’t accurate wording?

radiologist

 

[esther43]

I'm so sorry for what you went through. In my limited experience the idea is that the parent leads the process like you say and it would be considered highly insensitive to try to speed that process up, parents should take as long as they need.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

I think it would be hugely inappropriate to start collating a memory box and doing hand and footprints before the baby had even died surely? I would think that would be very upsetting for a parent and therefore not policy. The point is that she had no reason to be in the family room at that time.

Speaking from experience on both sides of this situation (as bereaved parent, and as nurse assisting bereaved parents), it should be entirely the parent's choice. The checklist should be available to be sure that all the same things are offered to families, to make things equitable and consistent, but it would be inappropriate to follow it rigidly without respect to differences between families. The appropriateness depends on things being handled sensitively and respectfully towards the family. In some cases where a death is anticipated, some parents find it meaningful to take footprints and handprints themselves, or have the nurse take the prints, from their living baby, just as you would for any newborn. The nurse will be their assistant as they do these things, steadying the baby's hand or foot, getting the paper and ink, providing bathing supplies, and so forth. In other cases, it will be done after death, again, sometimes by the parents themselves, if that is what they prefer, or sometimes by a nurse. It is a best practice not to take anything away from the parents that they might want to do themselves. The nurse should fade into the background and appear only when something is needed.

With all that said, I don't think there's any evidence that if LL was taking footprints or making a memory box before the baby had died, that it was out of respect for the parent's wishes.

 

[Becky53]

Need to bob out for a puncture repair if someone wants to take over BBC updates if trial resumes.

 

[Tortoise]

Need to bob out for a puncture repair if someone wants to take over BBC updates if trial resumes.

I can do that.