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If they have the iPads full of the info, wouldn't they be able to look up agreed upon facts?
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VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #29
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Witness Statements Agreed
Mother
A statement from Child H's mother is being read out to the court.
She says Child H was born in September 2015, and had "a healthy Pregnancy", the only complication being she was a type 1 diabetic. Checks were carried out, but they were primarily for the mother's benefit, not the child.
She was admitted to medical care in September 2015 as her blood sugar levels kept dropping. Once there, staff talked about the possibility of inducing.
She went to hospital and had the view she was not to give birth for a few weeks. She was then visited by a consultant and told that, on September 22, for the birth to take place. There was a complication in that Child H would be a couple of weeks premature.
There were also 'no beds available' in the neonatal unit, or in any other equivalent centres, even as far away as Birmingham.
As preparations were made for the mum to give birth, a bed in the neonatal unit became available.
The birth took place, and Child H was "absolutely fine" and "might not even need to go to the NNU".
Both parents were allowed to hold the baby girl, but she became pale and began grunting.
Child H was then taken to the NNU for oxygen as she was "struggling to breathe".
The mother adds Child H was put on CPAP to assist her breathing.
The parents tried to go into the NNU and were informed that Child H had been placed on a ventilator. They were "quite annoyed" they had not been informed about this, and staff said they had been busy and no-one had found the time to inform them.
After several x-rays, it was established Child H had suffered a suspected lung puncture. The parents remained with her, but could not pick her up.
The following morning, nursing staff said the mum had to come to the NNU "right away" and inform the father to come too.
Child H was being treated, with "lots of medical" people surrounding her. They were resuscitating Child H.
The mum was told to sit with Child H and hold her hand. The staff successfully brought Child H back. The staff could not explain her "cardiac collapse".
Child H was then "doing really well" that day.
The parents had just gone to bed when staff knocked on the door. They said Child H was "not responding".
The parents were met with an "almost identical scene" as Child H was surrounded by medical staff. "Fortunately" this collapse did not last as long.
Following this, Child H was transferred to Arrowe Park Hospital on September 27.
The staff there removed and replaced the ventilator. They checked Child H over and a brain scan "fortunately showed no long-term damage".
Child H "improved dramatically" as soon as she was at Arrowe Park, and within 24 hours she was off a ventilator and back on to CPAP. 24 hours later she was then taken off CPAP, and made "a dramatic improvement".
She was then taken back to the Countess, and the "only difficulty" at that point was getting her to feed.
Child H stayed in the NNU until October 9, when she was discharged "earlier than normal" for a baby outpatient.
There had been "no long-term complications whatsoever" for Child H.
Father
The father's statement is now read out to court.
Child H was "quite healthy" at birth, but was "grimacing" and had complications with breathing, so was taken to the NNU.
The father says he was able to see Child H soon after, and saw she was on an incubator, with breathing assistance.
He recalls being woken up on September 26 and being called to the hospital, and seeing "a lot of commotion going on". He remembers Lucy Letby being there, doing chest massaging.
It was explained to the parents Child H had had "a collapse". He recalls Child H was "a very strange colour" and had "mottling running towards her fingers". A doctor explained the pressurised air in the lungs had caused a tear.
The parents stayed with Child H that day, and she "remained ok that day".
He said it was after they had gone to bed that they had a knock on the door and returned to the NNU.
The staff were in consultation with Arrowe Park.
The father says in the early hours of September 27, Child H was transferred to Arrowe Park, where she came on in "leaps and bounds".
The Arrowe Park was "a completely different setup" and staff were "more proactive", the father says.
Child H returned to the Countess of Chester Hospital and "nothing else really major happened" before she was discharged.
Midwife Deborah Moore
Prosecutor Nick Johnson is reading a statement (which is agreed evidence) from Countess of Chester Hospital midwife Deborah Moore. She took Child H's mother to theatre for her emergency C-section
Ms Moore says from reviewing her notes it was an 'uneventful birth and the mother did not require any additional treatment'
Unnamed nurse (1)
A member of nursing staff, who can't be named for legal reasons, recalls apologising to the parents of Child H for not informing theme sooner of their daughter's condition.
The nurse's statement, read to court, said: "We always try to inform the parents as soon as possible, but not if this is going to comprise health of the baby, if we felt the baby was going to die, parents would be informed right away – never felt the case with (Child H)'
Witness Evidence
Dr Alison Ventress
Giving evidence at Manchester Crown Court on Thursday, January 19, registrar Dr Alison Ventress said she received an urgent bleep call from nurses in the early hours of September 25.
She said she was informed Child H had breathing difficulties, poor chest movement and poor colour.
Child H’s oxygen levels plummeted shortly after her arrival and she called for a consultant to assist, Dr Ventress told the court.
More desaturations followed as Child H received a series of invasive needle treatments for a tension pneumothorax – an emergency situation where air accumulates between the chest wall and lung which causes it to collapse.
Dr Ventress agreed with Simon Driver, prosecuting, that it had been a “rocky night” for Child H.
Mr Driver asked: “Were the causes for those problems identified?”
Dr Ventress replied: “Yes, a tension pneumothorax is something that does happen. You never find an exact cause but for a premature baby needing breathing support it is a known complication of that.”
On the following night shift, she noted a “cluster” of desaturations in a two-hour period.
She said she later found a chest drain – a tube inserted to drain air – was in a sub-optimal position and it had “almost fallen out”.
Dr Ventress noted at 1am on September 26 that a combination of Child H needing more respiratory support and a drop in her blood pressure led her to think she may have another tension pneumothorax.
At 3.24am, she received a crash call from the nurses in the neo-natal unit, the court heard.
Child H had desaturated to a “level of real concern”, she said, and her heart rate had fallen below 100 beats per minute.
She said she was informed that “no trigger was identified”.
Chest compressions commenced at 3.26am when her oxygen levels and heart rate continued to drop, the court was told.
Child H was given several doses of adrenaline before compressions stopped at 3.46am when her heart rate rose to a safe level.
Dr Ventress said: “We followed the cardiac arrest protocol and she recovered, but we never found a reason why she got into that state.”
The court heard that three chest drains were put into Child H over several days before her first sudden collapse.
Cross Examination
Benjamin Myers KC, defending, asked Dr Ventress: “Do you agree there are numerous reasons why a baby on a chest drain may desaturate?”
“Yes,” said the doctor.
Mr Myers said: “If we look at the days leading up to the event on September 26, over those days there have been multiple desaturations with this little girl.”
Dr Ventress said: “Yes.”
Mr Myers went on: “Indeed in the hours leading up the event we are looking at, there was a series of desaturations over the night, weren’t they?”
“Yes,” repeated Dr Ventress.
She also agreed Child H had been suffering for a prolonged period of time from tension pneumothorax and “the reality is she had been through an awful lot of medical activity”.
Dr Ventress conceded it was “conceivable” that babies under that much intervention could suffer “quite a significant collapse”.
Prosecution
Mr Driver asked the witness: “You confirmed desaturations are not uncommon with babies experiencing the sort of problems Child H was experiencing. Are arrests as common as desaturations?”
Dr Ventress said: “No. Arrests are not all that common. I’m not saying they are impossible, but they are not all that common.”
Unnamed nurse (2)
Taken from Dan ODonohue live reporting on Twitter
A former nursing colleague of Ms Letby, who cannot be named for legal reasons, is now in the witness box. She is taking the court through her notes on Child H from 25 September 2015
Asked for her recollections of the events of 26 September, the nurse said she remembers Child H 'became unwell that night and needed some resuscitation'
The nurse is asked about 'a difference of opinion' that occurred that night over whether a baptism should be offered for Child H after her collapse. The baptism was offered to the parents, which was accepted
The nurse and a senior manager disagreed over whether it was the appropriate time for it to be offered
This disagreement arose mainly due to the fact it was early hours of the morning and the unit was busy. The nurse said it shouldn't be 'blown out of proportion'
Unnamed shift leader
The court heard that 13 children were in the unit in the early hours of September 26, with four nurses allocated to their care.
Letby was tasked with looking after a sole baby, Child H, in intensive care nursery room 1.
The evening’s nursing shift leader, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, agreed with Mr Myers that caring one-to-one for a baby such as Child H was “potentially quite a demanding job” for a nurse of Letby’s experience.
But she added: “Lucy was qualified in specialist neo-natal nursing at this time and very competent. She was not a totally inexperienced nurse … and I would trust that she would ask me if she had any problems.”
Cross Examination
Mr Myers asked the witness: “Was there an issue with Lucy Letby being relatively junior compared to others and some debate about her going into Nursery One to look after more poorly babies?”
“Sometimes, yes,” she replied.
Mr Myers said: “And sometimes a bit of an under-the-surface dispute about that, is that correct?”
The witness said: “Yes.”
Dr Ravi Jayaram
Taken from Dan ODonohue live reporting on twitter
Consultant paediatrician Dr Ravi Jayaram is now in the witness box, he is recalling the events of 26 September 2015. Dr Jayaram was called by junior colleague Dr Alison Ventress in the early hours as medics were having trouble with Child H
Child H needed a numerous procedures to drain air from her chest as she had suffered pneumothorax, this is where air leaks into the space between your lung and chest wall. Dr Jayaram is explaining this condition and how it is diagnosed/treated
Jury are being shown X-rays of Child H, which show excess air in the chest cavity. Child H had a chest drain and two needles (to drain air) in a bid to treat this
Dr Jayaram is currently describing in detail the process of inserting a chest drain
X-rays taken in the early hours of the morning of 25 September 2015 show that Child H's lung had re-inflated after the procedures. Lots of the black (air) present on previous X-rays in the chest area had disappeared
Cross Examination
Ben Myers KC, defending, is now questioning the consultant. He asks whether the act of fitting a chest drain can cause stress to a baby, he says it ‘can raise heart rate’
Mr Myers is asking whether a drain could come into contact with internal structures like the heart, Dr Jayaram says he has 'never seen that happen' - he says anatomical he can't see it, as the heart is surrounded by the lungs and the lungs would have to be punctured
Mr Myers puts it to Dr Jayaram, that due to improvements in medicine, pneumothorax is less common. He says 'generally speaking doctors now are likely to have less practice on chest drains', Dr Jayaram says he 'wouldn’t disagree with that'
He says that is why such treatments are more often carried out by consultants, as they're from a generation when they were more common
Mr Myers is asking Dr Jayaram where the optimum space is to insert a chest drain, he puts it to the consultant that the fifth intercostal space is the best area and is standard. Dr Jayaram says 'it doesn’t matter…as long as it is in, it is going to drain air'
Dr Jayaram eventually agrees that 'ideally' the fifth intercostal space is where a drain would be fitted
Discussion in court is currently centring on the use of different drains - a pig tail train and a straight drain. Child H has a pig tail drain fitted first, by Dr Ventress and then Dr Jayaram fitted a straight drain a short time later.
Dr Jayaram concedes that it would have been easier to fit a second pig tail drain, but there were none available
Mr Myers shows the jury an X-ray of the two drains in Child H. The first as established was in the 'ideal' fifth intercostal space. The second fitted by Dr Jayaram, is not in the fifth intercostal space (his notes written at the time say it is)
Dr Jayaram agrees it is 'clearly' not in there but says the drain is still in a 'good position'. He says it is in the plural cavity and that it is working
Mr Myers is repeatedly putting it to the consultant that the chest drain is in the wrong place. 'No it’s in the plural cavity, you’re focused on process rather than outcome. It needed to be put in. It isn’t going to have any great effect on heart function'
Mr Myers puts it to the medic that the tip of a drain that close to the heart could cause bradycardia if it moves, 'it could' Dr Jayaram says
Mr Myers says if the baby moves, is handled, when it breaths - can all cause the drain to move. Dr Jayaram agrees, but disputes the inference of the questions. He says any movement would be minimal
Mr Myers puts it to Dr Jayaram that he inserted the chest drain in a sub-optimal position and that this contributed to Child H's desaturations in the hours and days that followed. The consultant rejects this, he says the drain was not in the wrong place
He accuses Mr Myers of being focused on process over outcomes, he says the drain was inserted to drain air which it did.
Dr John Gibbs
Taken from Dan ODonohue live reporting on Twitter.
Dr John Gibbs, who was a consultant paediatrician at the Countess of Chester in 2015, is now in the witness box
Dr Gibbs' notes from around 5pm on 25 September show that the drain inserted by Dr Jayaram that morning had moved. Dr Gibbs fixed the drain more securely to stop it moving any further
Dr Gibbs is asked if there's any consequence to the drain moving, he says: 'The main worry is it moving out completely and falling out and being useless'
Asked if there would be any internal consequence,
Dr Gibbs says: 'Not that I’m aware of…you wouldn’t want to keep pulling and pushing, that would be rubbing against the lung. Pushing very far in would push against the heart…
'I wouldn’t expect it to cause any trauma or damage to (Child H)at all', he said
Dr Gibbs is now taking the court back over his notes from the early hours of 26 September, when Child H suffered a serious collapse which required CPR and three doses of adrenaline
Dr Gibbs' notes from the time say that it was 'unclear' why the infant went into cardiac arrest. His notes say the likely cause was hypoxia - low oxygen levels - but not clear what had caused that
Cross Examination
Ms Letby's defence counsel, Mr Myers is now questioning Dr Gibbs
Mr Myers puts it to Dr Gibbs that against the backdrop of all Child H had been through - the insertion of multiple chest drains - it was 'no surprise' she had a collapse on 26 September. Dr Gibbs says he 'was surprised' by her collapse as she had been stable
The judge has asked Mr Myers to clarify whether he is suggesting Child H's collapse came as a consequence of the procedures (chest drains/intubations etc), he says yes
He says, with particular reference to the drain fitted by Dr Jayaram, that he wants the jury to look 'where it goes and what it could have done'
Dr Matthew Neame
On Monday, January 23, in the 13th week of the trial before the jury, registrar Dr Matthew Neame told Manchester Crown Court about his involvement with the second incident and how he was twice summoned by nurses on the shift.
The first emergency crash bleep was received after a “profound” drop in Child H’s blood oxygen levels and heart rate as medics discovered her breathing tube was blocked with secretions, the court heard.
Several hours later at 12.55am on September 27, Child H suffered more profound desaturations while on a ventilator – but this time her breathing tube contained no secretions.
Child H’s heart rate plunged to 40 beats per minute at 1.07am and full resuscitation, including chest compressions and doses of adrenaline, was needed for six minutes before she recovered.
Asked how the second crash call was different, Dr Neame said: “The distinction is the lack of clear explanation for the event at this time and the fact that it has happened again in a relatively short space of time.
“Both those things would have made me more concerned about (Child H’s) condition.”
Dr Neame said he thought Letby was the nurse who he first spoke to upon his arrival to the second crash call.
Soon after Child H was transferred to Wirral’s Arrowe Park Hospital where she “came on in leaps and bounds”, said her parents, before she was discharged the following month.
In his discharge letter to Arrowe Park, Dr Neame wrote: “Thank you for accepting this baby who has had two significant episodes of bradycardia (low heart rate) requiring resuscitation, adrenaline and CPR in the last 24 hours with no clear precipitating factors.
“Her care has been complicated by the development of respiratory distress syndrome and pneumothoraces (collapsed lung) but the acute episodes with desaturation and bradycardia do not seem to be directly related to the respiratory problems.”
Nurse Shelley Tomlins
Nurse Shelley Tomlins, Child H’s designated nurse on the nightshift beginning September 26, said she would not have been in the baby’s presence throughout. She said she would have been covered by a colleague while on a break or if she had popped out of the room.
She told the court: “Given that she was unwell, I don’t think we would have left her in her room alone but I can’t be sure.”
Ms Tomlins said she she could offer no explanation why Child H’s blood oxygen levels dropped at 12.55am on September 27.
She told Ben Myers KC, defending, that her recollection of Child H was that she was a “very poorly baby”.
Nurse Christopher Booth
Fellow nurse Christopher Booth, who was on duty on both nightshifts, told Mr Myers that Letby had completed an overtime shift that week.
He said: “That was not unusual for her. She was very conscientious.”
Mr Myers went on: “Was she someone willing to work extra or have shifts changed at short notice?”
“Yes,” replied Mr Booth.
Mr Myers said: “Did you find her to be a hard worker?”
Mr Booth said: “Without doubt, yes.”
Asked if Letby became upset as events involving babies continued, Mr Booth said: “Oh definitely. It was a harrowing time. We were all upset. Without doubt, Lucy as well.”
Medical experts evidence
Dr Sandie Bohin
Today Dr Sandie Bohin, one of two paediatric experts brought in by the prosecution, was questioned in detail about the drain fitted by Dr Jayaram.
Nick Johnson KC, prosecuting, asked whether the tip of the drain might have interfered with the baby's heart or vagal nerve and therefore account for her two subsequent collapses.
Having viewed a series of x-ray images shown to the jury, the paediatrician replied: 'If the tip of a drain is abutting structures in the centre of the chest, that can cause – although I've never seen it – a failing heart rate and desaturation.
'But although it had moved, it hadn't moved after the x-ray on September 26, so I don't think that drain can be the cause of the collapses. By then it had been secured'.
Cross Examination
Cross-examined by Letby's barrister, Ben Myers KC, Dr Bohin agreed that Dr Jayaram had inserted the drain in what was technically a 'sub-optimal position'. But she added: 'He did it as a life-saving measure'.
The paediatrician agreed that there had been delays in intubating Baby H and in giving her surfactant, a protein used to help relax an infant's lungs.
The latter delay meant that when the baby was ventilated the increased air pressure needed had the effect of worsening her pneumothorax.
But again Dr Bohin insisted that staff were dealing with an emergency and that 'there was no option; it was a lifesaving measure'.
She said the butterfly needle left inside the baby's chest might have punctured lung tissue and contributed to the ongoing pneumothorax.
Mr Myers asked: 'Leaving a butterfly needle in situ is suboptimal practice, isn't it?'
Dr Bohin replied: 'Yes, because it's hazardous'.
She rejected Mr Myers' suggestion that the explanation for Baby H's two mystery collapses might have been the cumulative effect of a series of procedures she had been through.
'A baby will desaturate as the result of an event, but it's not cumulative and it certainly doesn't cause a cardiac arrest'.
Dr Bohin also rejected the barrister's suggestion that the pneumothoraces meant Baby H would have fared better if she had been moved earlier to a tertiary unit such as Arrowe Park.
'No, because they can occur spontaneously – and that would mean every baby would need to be born in a tertiary unit, which isn't practical'.
Dr Dewi Evans
Earlier, Dr Dewi Evans, the other paediatrician called as an expert witness by the prosecution, said he believed the overall care Baby H received had saved her life.
At one point Mr Myers accused him of 'deliberately identifying positive factors and ignoring the problems to support these allegations'.
Dr Evans replied: 'No, they are a series of problems that they dealt with, and the proof is she is a well little girl now'.
He added: 'I can't explain the (two) collapses, but the fact that she recovered so well before she left for Arrowe Park is a marker of clinical wellbeing and, retrospectively, an indicator that the care she had was satisfactory'.
Professor Arthur Owens
Taken from Dan O’Donohue Twitter 03/02/2023
Consultant paediatric radiologist Owen Arthurs is first up in the witness box this morning. He's giving expert evidence on CT scans, X-rays and other images in this case
Dr Arthurs is now going over the X-rays of Child H which show the drains
Dr Arthurs notes that the position of the drains have moved, but he says that the 'precise location isn’t really critical if it’s having the desired effect if it’s draining the pneumothorax' - essentially supporting what Dr Jayaram has previously said here
Cross Examination
Ben Myers KC, defending, is now questioning Dr Arthurs
He's asking Dr Arthurs about Child H and the positioning of her chest drains. Mr Myers asks if he is aware of guidelines on where chest drain should be inserted, in terms of the intercostal space
Dr Arthurs says that the guidance, to which Mr Myers is referring, 'refers to where they go in terms of the chest wall, not where they are inside chest'
Dr Arthurs accepts that a neonatologist is better placed to comment on positioning of drains and clinical impact
Mother
A statement from Child H's mother is being read out to the court.
She says Child H was born in September 2015, and had "a healthy Pregnancy", the only complication being she was a type 1 diabetic. Checks were carried out, but they were primarily for the mother's benefit, not the child.
She was admitted to medical care in September 2015 as her blood sugar levels kept dropping. Once there, staff talked about the possibility of inducing.
She went to hospital and had the view she was not to give birth for a few weeks. She was then visited by a consultant and told that, on September 22, for the birth to take place. There was a complication in that Child H would be a couple of weeks premature.
There were also 'no beds available' in the neonatal unit, or in any other equivalent centres, even as far away as Birmingham.
As preparations were made for the mum to give birth, a bed in the neonatal unit became available.
The birth took place, and Child H was "absolutely fine" and "might not even need to go to the NNU".
Both parents were allowed to hold the baby girl, but she became pale and began grunting.
Child H was then taken to the NNU for oxygen as she was "struggling to breathe".
The mother adds Child H was put on CPAP to assist her breathing.
The parents tried to go into the NNU and were informed that Child H had been placed on a ventilator. They were "quite annoyed" they had not been informed about this, and staff said they had been busy and no-one had found the time to inform them.
After several x-rays, it was established Child H had suffered a suspected lung puncture. The parents remained with her, but could not pick her up.
The following morning, nursing staff said the mum had to come to the NNU "right away" and inform the father to come too.
Child H was being treated, with "lots of medical" people surrounding her. They were resuscitating Child H.
The mum was told to sit with Child H and hold her hand. The staff successfully brought Child H back. The staff could not explain her "cardiac collapse".
Child H was then "doing really well" that day.
The parents had just gone to bed when staff knocked on the door. They said Child H was "not responding".
The parents were met with an "almost identical scene" as Child H was surrounded by medical staff. "Fortunately" this collapse did not last as long.
Following this, Child H was transferred to Arrowe Park Hospital on September 27.
The staff there removed and replaced the ventilator. They checked Child H over and a brain scan "fortunately showed no long-term damage".
Child H "improved dramatically" as soon as she was at Arrowe Park, and within 24 hours she was off a ventilator and back on to CPAP. 24 hours later she was then taken off CPAP, and made "a dramatic improvement".
She was then taken back to the Countess, and the "only difficulty" at that point was getting her to feed.
Child H stayed in the NNU until October 9, when she was discharged "earlier than normal" for a baby outpatient.
There had been "no long-term complications whatsoever" for Child H.
Father
The father's statement is now read out to court.
Child H was "quite healthy" at birth, but was "grimacing" and had complications with breathing, so was taken to the NNU.
The father says he was able to see Child H soon after, and saw she was on an incubator, with breathing assistance.
He recalls being woken up on September 26 and being called to the hospital, and seeing "a lot of commotion going on". He remembers Lucy Letby being there, doing chest massaging.
It was explained to the parents Child H had had "a collapse". He recalls Child H was "a very strange colour" and had "mottling running towards her fingers". A doctor explained the pressurised air in the lungs had caused a tear.
The parents stayed with Child H that day, and she "remained ok that day".
He said it was after they had gone to bed that they had a knock on the door and returned to the NNU.
The staff were in consultation with Arrowe Park.
The father says in the early hours of September 27, Child H was transferred to Arrowe Park, where she came on in "leaps and bounds".
The Arrowe Park was "a completely different setup" and staff were "more proactive", the father says.
Child H returned to the Countess of Chester Hospital and "nothing else really major happened" before she was discharged.
Midwife Deborah Moore
Prosecutor Nick Johnson is reading a statement (which is agreed evidence) from Countess of Chester Hospital midwife Deborah Moore. She took Child H's mother to theatre for her emergency C-section
Ms Moore says from reviewing her notes it was an 'uneventful birth and the mother did not require any additional treatment'
Unnamed nurse (1)
A member of nursing staff, who can't be named for legal reasons, recalls apologising to the parents of Child H for not informing theme sooner of their daughter's condition.
The nurse's statement, read to court, said: "We always try to inform the parents as soon as possible, but not if this is going to comprise health of the baby, if we felt the baby was going to die, parents would be informed right away – never felt the case with (Child H)'
Witness Evidence
Dr Alison Ventress
Giving evidence at Manchester Crown Court on Thursday, January 19, registrar Dr Alison Ventress said she received an urgent bleep call from nurses in the early hours of September 25.
She said she was informed Child H had breathing difficulties, poor chest movement and poor colour.
Child H’s oxygen levels plummeted shortly after her arrival and she called for a consultant to assist, Dr Ventress told the court.
More desaturations followed as Child H received a series of invasive needle treatments for a tension pneumothorax – an emergency situation where air accumulates between the chest wall and lung which causes it to collapse.
Dr Ventress agreed with Simon Driver, prosecuting, that it had been a “rocky night” for Child H.
Mr Driver asked: “Were the causes for those problems identified?”
Dr Ventress replied: “Yes, a tension pneumothorax is something that does happen. You never find an exact cause but for a premature baby needing breathing support it is a known complication of that.”
On the following night shift, she noted a “cluster” of desaturations in a two-hour period.
She said she later found a chest drain – a tube inserted to drain air – was in a sub-optimal position and it had “almost fallen out”.
Dr Ventress noted at 1am on September 26 that a combination of Child H needing more respiratory support and a drop in her blood pressure led her to think she may have another tension pneumothorax.
At 3.24am, she received a crash call from the nurses in the neo-natal unit, the court heard.
Child H had desaturated to a “level of real concern”, she said, and her heart rate had fallen below 100 beats per minute.
She said she was informed that “no trigger was identified”.
Chest compressions commenced at 3.26am when her oxygen levels and heart rate continued to drop, the court was told.
Child H was given several doses of adrenaline before compressions stopped at 3.46am when her heart rate rose to a safe level.
Dr Ventress said: “We followed the cardiac arrest protocol and she recovered, but we never found a reason why she got into that state.”
The court heard that three chest drains were put into Child H over several days before her first sudden collapse.
Cross Examination
Benjamin Myers KC, defending, asked Dr Ventress: “Do you agree there are numerous reasons why a baby on a chest drain may desaturate?”
“Yes,” said the doctor.
Mr Myers said: “If we look at the days leading up to the event on September 26, over those days there have been multiple desaturations with this little girl.”
Dr Ventress said: “Yes.”
Mr Myers went on: “Indeed in the hours leading up the event we are looking at, there was a series of desaturations over the night, weren’t they?”
“Yes,” repeated Dr Ventress.
She also agreed Child H had been suffering for a prolonged period of time from tension pneumothorax and “the reality is she had been through an awful lot of medical activity”.
Dr Ventress conceded it was “conceivable” that babies under that much intervention could suffer “quite a significant collapse”.
Prosecution
Mr Driver asked the witness: “You confirmed desaturations are not uncommon with babies experiencing the sort of problems Child H was experiencing. Are arrests as common as desaturations?”
Dr Ventress said: “No. Arrests are not all that common. I’m not saying they are impossible, but they are not all that common.”
Unnamed nurse (2)
Taken from Dan ODonohue live reporting on Twitter
A former nursing colleague of Ms Letby, who cannot be named for legal reasons, is now in the witness box. She is taking the court through her notes on Child H from 25 September 2015
Asked for her recollections of the events of 26 September, the nurse said she remembers Child H 'became unwell that night and needed some resuscitation'
The nurse is asked about 'a difference of opinion' that occurred that night over whether a baptism should be offered for Child H after her collapse. The baptism was offered to the parents, which was accepted
The nurse and a senior manager disagreed over whether it was the appropriate time for it to be offered
This disagreement arose mainly due to the fact it was early hours of the morning and the unit was busy. The nurse said it shouldn't be 'blown out of proportion'
Unnamed shift leader
The court heard that 13 children were in the unit in the early hours of September 26, with four nurses allocated to their care.
Letby was tasked with looking after a sole baby, Child H, in intensive care nursery room 1.
The evening’s nursing shift leader, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, agreed with Mr Myers that caring one-to-one for a baby such as Child H was “potentially quite a demanding job” for a nurse of Letby’s experience.
But she added: “Lucy was qualified in specialist neo-natal nursing at this time and very competent. She was not a totally inexperienced nurse … and I would trust that she would ask me if she had any problems.”
Cross Examination
Mr Myers asked the witness: “Was there an issue with Lucy Letby being relatively junior compared to others and some debate about her going into Nursery One to look after more poorly babies?”
“Sometimes, yes,” she replied.
Mr Myers said: “And sometimes a bit of an under-the-surface dispute about that, is that correct?”
The witness said: “Yes.”
Dr Ravi Jayaram
Taken from Dan ODonohue live reporting on twitter
Consultant paediatrician Dr Ravi Jayaram is now in the witness box, he is recalling the events of 26 September 2015. Dr Jayaram was called by junior colleague Dr Alison Ventress in the early hours as medics were having trouble with Child H
Child H needed a numerous procedures to drain air from her chest as she had suffered pneumothorax, this is where air leaks into the space between your lung and chest wall. Dr Jayaram is explaining this condition and how it is diagnosed/treated
Jury are being shown X-rays of Child H, which show excess air in the chest cavity. Child H had a chest drain and two needles (to drain air) in a bid to treat this
Dr Jayaram is currently describing in detail the process of inserting a chest drain
X-rays taken in the early hours of the morning of 25 September 2015 show that Child H's lung had re-inflated after the procedures. Lots of the black (air) present on previous X-rays in the chest area had disappeared
Cross Examination
Ben Myers KC, defending, is now questioning the consultant. He asks whether the act of fitting a chest drain can cause stress to a baby, he says it ‘can raise heart rate’
Mr Myers is asking whether a drain could come into contact with internal structures like the heart, Dr Jayaram says he has 'never seen that happen' - he says anatomical he can't see it, as the heart is surrounded by the lungs and the lungs would have to be punctured
Mr Myers puts it to Dr Jayaram, that due to improvements in medicine, pneumothorax is less common. He says 'generally speaking doctors now are likely to have less practice on chest drains', Dr Jayaram says he 'wouldn’t disagree with that'
He says that is why such treatments are more often carried out by consultants, as they're from a generation when they were more common
Mr Myers is asking Dr Jayaram where the optimum space is to insert a chest drain, he puts it to the consultant that the fifth intercostal space is the best area and is standard. Dr Jayaram says 'it doesn’t matter…as long as it is in, it is going to drain air'
Dr Jayaram eventually agrees that 'ideally' the fifth intercostal space is where a drain would be fitted
Discussion in court is currently centring on the use of different drains - a pig tail train and a straight drain. Child H has a pig tail drain fitted first, by Dr Ventress and then Dr Jayaram fitted a straight drain a short time later.
Dr Jayaram concedes that it would have been easier to fit a second pig tail drain, but there were none available
Mr Myers shows the jury an X-ray of the two drains in Child H. The first as established was in the 'ideal' fifth intercostal space. The second fitted by Dr Jayaram, is not in the fifth intercostal space (his notes written at the time say it is)
Dr Jayaram agrees it is 'clearly' not in there but says the drain is still in a 'good position'. He says it is in the plural cavity and that it is working
Mr Myers is repeatedly putting it to the consultant that the chest drain is in the wrong place. 'No it’s in the plural cavity, you’re focused on process rather than outcome. It needed to be put in. It isn’t going to have any great effect on heart function'
Mr Myers puts it to the medic that the tip of a drain that close to the heart could cause bradycardia if it moves, 'it could' Dr Jayaram says
Mr Myers says if the baby moves, is handled, when it breaths - can all cause the drain to move. Dr Jayaram agrees, but disputes the inference of the questions. He says any movement would be minimal
Mr Myers puts it to Dr Jayaram that he inserted the chest drain in a sub-optimal position and that this contributed to Child H's desaturations in the hours and days that followed. The consultant rejects this, he says the drain was not in the wrong place
He accuses Mr Myers of being focused on process over outcomes, he says the drain was inserted to drain air which it did.
Dr John Gibbs
Taken from Dan ODonohue live reporting on Twitter.
Dr John Gibbs, who was a consultant paediatrician at the Countess of Chester in 2015, is now in the witness box
Dr Gibbs' notes from around 5pm on 25 September show that the drain inserted by Dr Jayaram that morning had moved. Dr Gibbs fixed the drain more securely to stop it moving any further
Dr Gibbs is asked if there's any consequence to the drain moving, he says: 'The main worry is it moving out completely and falling out and being useless'
Asked if there would be any internal consequence,
Dr Gibbs says: 'Not that I’m aware of…you wouldn’t want to keep pulling and pushing, that would be rubbing against the lung. Pushing very far in would push against the heart…
'I wouldn’t expect it to cause any trauma or damage to (Child H)at all', he said
Dr Gibbs is now taking the court back over his notes from the early hours of 26 September, when Child H suffered a serious collapse which required CPR and three doses of adrenaline
Dr Gibbs' notes from the time say that it was 'unclear' why the infant went into cardiac arrest. His notes say the likely cause was hypoxia - low oxygen levels - but not clear what had caused that
Cross Examination
Ms Letby's defence counsel, Mr Myers is now questioning Dr Gibbs
Mr Myers puts it to Dr Gibbs that against the backdrop of all Child H had been through - the insertion of multiple chest drains - it was 'no surprise' she had a collapse on 26 September. Dr Gibbs says he 'was surprised' by her collapse as she had been stable
The judge has asked Mr Myers to clarify whether he is suggesting Child H's collapse came as a consequence of the procedures (chest drains/intubations etc), he says yes
He says, with particular reference to the drain fitted by Dr Jayaram, that he wants the jury to look 'where it goes and what it could have done'
Dr Matthew Neame
On Monday, January 23, in the 13th week of the trial before the jury, registrar Dr Matthew Neame told Manchester Crown Court about his involvement with the second incident and how he was twice summoned by nurses on the shift.
The first emergency crash bleep was received after a “profound” drop in Child H’s blood oxygen levels and heart rate as medics discovered her breathing tube was blocked with secretions, the court heard.
Several hours later at 12.55am on September 27, Child H suffered more profound desaturations while on a ventilator – but this time her breathing tube contained no secretions.
Child H’s heart rate plunged to 40 beats per minute at 1.07am and full resuscitation, including chest compressions and doses of adrenaline, was needed for six minutes before she recovered.
Asked how the second crash call was different, Dr Neame said: “The distinction is the lack of clear explanation for the event at this time and the fact that it has happened again in a relatively short space of time.
“Both those things would have made me more concerned about (Child H’s) condition.”
Dr Neame said he thought Letby was the nurse who he first spoke to upon his arrival to the second crash call.
Soon after Child H was transferred to Wirral’s Arrowe Park Hospital where she “came on in leaps and bounds”, said her parents, before she was discharged the following month.
In his discharge letter to Arrowe Park, Dr Neame wrote: “Thank you for accepting this baby who has had two significant episodes of bradycardia (low heart rate) requiring resuscitation, adrenaline and CPR in the last 24 hours with no clear precipitating factors.
“Her care has been complicated by the development of respiratory distress syndrome and pneumothoraces (collapsed lung) but the acute episodes with desaturation and bradycardia do not seem to be directly related to the respiratory problems.”
Nurse Shelley Tomlins
Nurse Shelley Tomlins, Child H’s designated nurse on the nightshift beginning September 26, said she would not have been in the baby’s presence throughout. She said she would have been covered by a colleague while on a break or if she had popped out of the room.
She told the court: “Given that she was unwell, I don’t think we would have left her in her room alone but I can’t be sure.”
Ms Tomlins said she she could offer no explanation why Child H’s blood oxygen levels dropped at 12.55am on September 27.
She told Ben Myers KC, defending, that her recollection of Child H was that she was a “very poorly baby”.
Nurse Christopher Booth
Fellow nurse Christopher Booth, who was on duty on both nightshifts, told Mr Myers that Letby had completed an overtime shift that week.
He said: “That was not unusual for her. She was very conscientious.”
Mr Myers went on: “Was she someone willing to work extra or have shifts changed at short notice?”
“Yes,” replied Mr Booth.
Mr Myers said: “Did you find her to be a hard worker?”
Mr Booth said: “Without doubt, yes.”
Asked if Letby became upset as events involving babies continued, Mr Booth said: “Oh definitely. It was a harrowing time. We were all upset. Without doubt, Lucy as well.”
Medical experts evidence
Dr Sandie Bohin
Today Dr Sandie Bohin, one of two paediatric experts brought in by the prosecution, was questioned in detail about the drain fitted by Dr Jayaram.
Nick Johnson KC, prosecuting, asked whether the tip of the drain might have interfered with the baby's heart or vagal nerve and therefore account for her two subsequent collapses.
Having viewed a series of x-ray images shown to the jury, the paediatrician replied: 'If the tip of a drain is abutting structures in the centre of the chest, that can cause – although I've never seen it – a failing heart rate and desaturation.
'But although it had moved, it hadn't moved after the x-ray on September 26, so I don't think that drain can be the cause of the collapses. By then it had been secured'.
Cross Examination
Cross-examined by Letby's barrister, Ben Myers KC, Dr Bohin agreed that Dr Jayaram had inserted the drain in what was technically a 'sub-optimal position'. But she added: 'He did it as a life-saving measure'.
The paediatrician agreed that there had been delays in intubating Baby H and in giving her surfactant, a protein used to help relax an infant's lungs.
The latter delay meant that when the baby was ventilated the increased air pressure needed had the effect of worsening her pneumothorax.
But again Dr Bohin insisted that staff were dealing with an emergency and that 'there was no option; it was a lifesaving measure'.
She said the butterfly needle left inside the baby's chest might have punctured lung tissue and contributed to the ongoing pneumothorax.
Mr Myers asked: 'Leaving a butterfly needle in situ is suboptimal practice, isn't it?'
Dr Bohin replied: 'Yes, because it's hazardous'.
She rejected Mr Myers' suggestion that the explanation for Baby H's two mystery collapses might have been the cumulative effect of a series of procedures she had been through.
'A baby will desaturate as the result of an event, but it's not cumulative and it certainly doesn't cause a cardiac arrest'.
Dr Bohin also rejected the barrister's suggestion that the pneumothoraces meant Baby H would have fared better if she had been moved earlier to a tertiary unit such as Arrowe Park.
'No, because they can occur spontaneously – and that would mean every baby would need to be born in a tertiary unit, which isn't practical'.
Dr Dewi Evans
Earlier, Dr Dewi Evans, the other paediatrician called as an expert witness by the prosecution, said he believed the overall care Baby H received had saved her life.
At one point Mr Myers accused him of 'deliberately identifying positive factors and ignoring the problems to support these allegations'.
Dr Evans replied: 'No, they are a series of problems that they dealt with, and the proof is she is a well little girl now'.
He added: 'I can't explain the (two) collapses, but the fact that she recovered so well before she left for Arrowe Park is a marker of clinical wellbeing and, retrospectively, an indicator that the care she had was satisfactory'.
Professor Arthur Owens
Taken from Dan O’Donohue Twitter 03/02/2023
Consultant paediatric radiologist Owen Arthurs is first up in the witness box this morning. He's giving expert evidence on CT scans, X-rays and other images in this case
Dr Arthurs is now going over the X-rays of Child H which show the drains
Dr Arthurs notes that the position of the drains have moved, but he says that the 'precise location isn’t really critical if it’s having the desired effect if it’s draining the pneumothorax' - essentially supporting what Dr Jayaram has previously said here
Cross Examination
Ben Myers KC, defending, is now questioning Dr Arthurs
He's asking Dr Arthurs about Child H and the positioning of her chest drains. Mr Myers asks if he is aware of guidelines on where chest drain should be inserted, in terms of the intercostal space
Dr Arthurs says that the guidance, to which Mr Myers is referring, 'refers to where they go in terms of the chest wall, not where they are inside chest'
Dr Arthurs accepts that a neonatologist is better placed to comment on positioning of drains and clinical impact
The father's statement was saying he went home around midnight (and nothing about any problems that evening), and when he left we know LL called Dr V and said the baby had been having serious desaturations for about 2 hours, and Dr V saw one of the drains was falling out. Then the father was called back to the hospital urgently in the early hours.
For the father ...maybe description of the rash ?
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The father's statement is now read out to court.
Child H was "quite healthy" at birth, but was "grimacing" and had complications with breathing, so was taken to the NNU.
The father says he was able to see Child H soon after, and saw she was on an incubator, with breathing assistance.
He recalls being woken up on September 26 and being called to the hospital, and seeing "a lot of commotion going on". He remembers Lucy Letby being there, doing chest massaging.
It was explained to the parents Child H had had "a collapse". He recalls Child H was "a very strange colour" and had "mottling running towards her fingers". A doctor explained the pressurised air in the lungs had caused a tear.
The parents stayed with Child H that day, and she "remained ok that day".
He said it was after they had gone to bed that they had a knock on the door and returned to the NNU. The staff were in consultation with Arrowe Park.
The father says in the early hours of September 27, Child H was transferred to Arrowe Park, where she came on in "leaps and bounds".
The Arrowe Park was "a completely different setup" and staff were "more proactive", the father says.
Child H returned to the Countess of Chester Hospital and "nothing else really major happened" before she was discharged.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 18
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One might speculate that they've already decided on the murder charges and are deliberating the intent portion of the AM murder charges?
All MOO, obvs.
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Baby H, a girl, was born at 34 weeks, weighing 5lb 2oz.
6.40pm – H was admitted to the Neonatal Unit, Room 1. She had breathing difficulties shortly after birth. Independent experts say there was an "unacceptable delay" intubating her and administering a protein which helps the lungs, which the prosecution say means the case is complicated by "sub-optimal treatment" at the hospital. Additionally, H "was put on a ventilator, she was not paralysed; she was also left with butterfly needles in her chest for prolonged periods which may have punctured her lung tissues and contributed to further punctured lungs." (Opening Speech)
Early morning - Dr Alison Ventress testifies she will always remember Child H as she was the first baby she performed a pneumothorax aspiration on (needle in the chest to remove air). Child H had poor blood gas and had a profound desaturation down to 'the 50%s and needed bagging with neopuff'. H slowly recovered and was placed on Bipap (a small machine that pushes air through a mask and into child's airway and lungs). Child H's breathing 'remained gasping pattern'. Dr Ventress says this is 'more serious than grunting' and agrees that it was 'indicative of a serious respiratory problem'
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
I'm back at Manchester Crown Court for the murder trial of nurse Lucy Letby. We'll be continuing to hear evidence in relation to two collapses of a baby, referred to as Child H, at the Countess of Chester Hospital in September 2015.
Court now sitting. Jury had made a request for notepads, Judge Goss tells them there is none in the building. 'I don't know if you know much about government procurement, but it's not as simple as going the stationary and buying it', he says
Update on this, a court official has gone to WHSmith - paper has been purchased....
Consultant paediatrician Dr Ravi Jayaram is now in the witness box, he is recalling the events of 26 September 2015. Dr Jayaram was called by junior colleague Dr Alison Ventress in the early hours as medics were having trouble with Child H
Child H needed a numerous procedures to drain air from her chest as she had suffered pneumothorax, this is where air leaks into the space between your lung and chest wall. Dr Jayaram is explaining this condition and how it is diagnosed/treated
Jury are being shown X-rays of Child H, which show excess air in the chest cavity. Child H had a chest drain and two needles (to drain air) in a bid to treat this
Dr Jayaram is currently describing in detail the process of inserting a chest drain
X-rays taken in the early hours of the morning of 25 September 2015 show that Child H's lung had re-inflated after the procedures. Lots of the black (air) present on previous X-rays in the chest area had disappeared
Ben Myers KC, defending, is now questioning the consultant. He asks whether the act of fitting a chest drain can cause stress to a baby, he says it ‘can raise heart rate’
Mr Myers is asking whether a drain could come into contact with internal structures like the heart, Dr Jayaram says he has 'never seen that happen' - he says anatomical he can't see it, as the heart is surrounded by the lungs and the lungs would have to be punctured
Mr Myers puts it to Dr Jayaram, that due to improvements in medicine, pneumothorax is less common. He says 'generally speaking doctors now are likely to have less practice on chest drains', Dr Jayaram says he 'wouldn’t disagree with that'
He says that is why such treatments are more often carried out by consultants, as they're from a generation when they were more common
Mr Myers is asking Dr Jayaram where the optimum space is to insert a chest drain, he puts it to the consultant that the fifth intercostal space is the best area and is standard. Dr Jayaram says 'it doesn’t matter…as long as it is in, it is going to drain air'
Dr Jayaram eventually agrees that 'ideally' the fifth intercostal space is where a drain would be fitted
Discussion in court is currently centring on the use of different drains - a pig tail train and a straight drain. Child H has a pig tail drain fitted first, by Dr Ventress and then Dr Jayaram fitted a straight drain a short time later.
Dr Jayaram concedes that it would have been easier to fit a second pig tail drain, but there were none available
Mr Myers shows the jury an X-ray of the two drains in Child H. The first as established was in the 'ideal' fifth intercostal space. The second fitted by Dr Jayaram, is not in the fifth intercostal space (his notes written at the time say it is)
Dr Jayaram agrees it is 'clearly' not in there but says the drain is still in a 'good position'. He says it is in the plural cavity and that it is working
Mr Myers is repeatedly putting it to the consultant that the chest drain is in the wrong place. 'No it’s in the plural cavity, you’re focused on process rather than outcome. It needed to be put in. It isn’t going to have any great effect on heart function'
6.40pm – H was admitted to the Neonatal Unit, Room 1. She had breathing difficulties shortly after birth. Independent experts say there was an "unacceptable delay" intubating her and administering a protein which helps the lungs, which the prosecution say means the case is complicated by "sub-optimal treatment" at the hospital. Additionally, H "was put on a ventilator, she was not paralysed; she was also left with butterfly needles in her chest for prolonged periods which may have punctured her lung tissues and contributed to further punctured lungs." (Opening Speech)
Early morning - Dr Alison Ventress testifies she will always remember Child H as she was the first baby she performed a pneumothorax aspiration on (needle in the chest to remove air). Child H had poor blood gas and had a profound desaturation down to 'the 50%s and needed bagging with neopuff'. H slowly recovered and was placed on Bipap (a small machine that pushes air through a mask and into child's airway and lungs). Child H's breathing 'remained gasping pattern'. Dr Ventress says this is 'more serious than grunting' and agrees that it was 'indicative of a serious respiratory problem'
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
I'm back at Manchester Crown Court for the murder trial of nurse Lucy Letby. We'll be continuing to hear evidence in relation to two collapses of a baby, referred to as Child H, at the Countess of Chester Hospital in September 2015.
Court now sitting. Jury had made a request for notepads, Judge Goss tells them there is none in the building. 'I don't know if you know much about government procurement, but it's not as simple as going the stationary and buying it', he says
Update on this, a court official has gone to WHSmith - paper has been purchased....
Consultant paediatrician Dr Ravi Jayaram is now in the witness box, he is recalling the events of 26 September 2015. Dr Jayaram was called by junior colleague Dr Alison Ventress in the early hours as medics were having trouble with Child H
Child H needed a numerous procedures to drain air from her chest as she had suffered pneumothorax, this is where air leaks into the space between your lung and chest wall. Dr Jayaram is explaining this condition and how it is diagnosed/treated
Jury are being shown X-rays of Child H, which show excess air in the chest cavity. Child H had a chest drain and two needles (to drain air) in a bid to treat this
Dr Jayaram is currently describing in detail the process of inserting a chest drain
X-rays taken in the early hours of the morning of 25 September 2015 show that Child H's lung had re-inflated after the procedures. Lots of the black (air) present on previous X-rays in the chest area had disappeared
Ben Myers KC, defending, is now questioning the consultant. He asks whether the act of fitting a chest drain can cause stress to a baby, he says it ‘can raise heart rate’
Mr Myers is asking whether a drain could come into contact with internal structures like the heart, Dr Jayaram says he has 'never seen that happen' - he says anatomical he can't see it, as the heart is surrounded by the lungs and the lungs would have to be punctured
Mr Myers puts it to Dr Jayaram, that due to improvements in medicine, pneumothorax is less common. He says 'generally speaking doctors now are likely to have less practice on chest drains', Dr Jayaram says he 'wouldn’t disagree with that'
He says that is why such treatments are more often carried out by consultants, as they're from a generation when they were more common
Mr Myers is asking Dr Jayaram where the optimum space is to insert a chest drain, he puts it to the consultant that the fifth intercostal space is the best area and is standard. Dr Jayaram says 'it doesn’t matter…as long as it is in, it is going to drain air'
Dr Jayaram eventually agrees that 'ideally' the fifth intercostal space is where a drain would be fitted
Discussion in court is currently centring on the use of different drains - a pig tail train and a straight drain. Child H has a pig tail drain fitted first, by Dr Ventress and then Dr Jayaram fitted a straight drain a short time later.
Dr Jayaram concedes that it would have been easier to fit a second pig tail drain, but there were none available
Mr Myers shows the jury an X-ray of the two drains in Child H. The first as established was in the 'ideal' fifth intercostal space. The second fitted by Dr Jayaram, is not in the fifth intercostal space (his notes written at the time say it is)
Dr Jayaram agrees it is 'clearly' not in there but says the drain is still in a 'good position'. He says it is in the plural cavity and that it is working
Mr Myers is repeatedly putting it to the consultant that the chest drain is in the wrong place. 'No it’s in the plural cavity, you’re focused on process rather than outcome. It needed to be put in. It isn’t going to have any great effect on heart function'
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I wonder if they wanted to hear Dr Jayaram's statements again. This was not his best look.
I do wonder if there is at least one member who is uncertain about the crown's case/
I do wonder if there is at least one member who is uncertain about the crown's case/
It's possible that they've looked at cases that they are in broad agreement about first. We can but hope!
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Ah yes another baby who collapsed as soon as their parents left but this time, if guilty she may have made the mistake of telling the doctor that there were earlier saturations that the prosecution suggest never took place, as the father would have been present and aware of them.
JMO, if guilty, etc.
"At about 3pm, a note from the jury requested copies of agreed statements in respect of the charges for Child H.
Trial judge Mr Justice James Goss replied that copies of the transcripts were not possible to be delivered to members of the jury, but he could re-read, on request, which of those 12 agreed statements as they had been heard in court.
The jury retired for a few moments to indicate which agreed statements they wished to hear again.
Upon their return, the trial judge re-read agreed three statements; one from Child H's father, and two doctors who had been involved in the transport and care of Child H to Arrowe Park.
After the judge had finished reading the statements, the jury was sent home shortly before 4pm."
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
BBM
Trial judge Mr Justice James Goss replied that copies of the transcripts were not possible to be delivered to members of the jury, but he could re-read, on request, which of those 12 agreed statements as they had been heard in court.
The jury retired for a few moments to indicate which agreed statements they wished to hear again.
Upon their return, the trial judge re-read agreed three statements; one from Child H's father, and two doctors who had been involved in the transport and care of Child H to Arrowe Park.
After the judge had finished reading the statements, the jury was sent home shortly before 4pm."
Lucy Letby trial jury sent home after deliberations for eighth day
THE jury in the trial of baby murder-accused nurse Lucy Letby has been sent home after deliberating for an eighth day today (Wednesday, July 26).
BBM
"At about 3pm, a note from the jury requested copies of agreed statements in respect of the charges for Child H.
Trial judge Mr Justice James Goss replied that copies of the transcripts were not possible to be delivered to members of the jury, but he could re-read, on request, which of those 12 agreed statements as they had been heard in court.
The jury retired for a few moments to indicate which agreed statements they wished to hear again.
Upon their return, the trial judge re-read agreed three statements; one from Child H's father, and two doctors who had been involved in the transport and care of Child H to Arrowe Park.
After the judge had finished reading the statements, the jury was sent home shortly before 4pm."
Lucy Letby trial jury sent home after deliberations for eighth day
THE jury in the trial of baby murder-accused nurse Lucy Letby has been sent home after deliberating for an eighth day today (Wednesday, July 26).
BBM
Was this the baby where LL was said to ask who the "transfer team" was?
Length of Deliberations Predictions (and backers!)
Mon 10th - day 1 (afternoon only) - 2pm to 4pm minus 5mins = 1h 55m
Tue 11th - day 2 - 4h 20m
Wed 12th - day 3 - 4h 20m
Thu 13th - day 4 - 4h 20m
Fri 14th - day 5 - 4h 20m
Mon 24th - day 6 - 4h 20m
Tue 25th - day 7 - 4h 20m
Wed 26th - day 8 - 4h 15m
Running total = 32h 10m
Still in the game -
32h 14m - @Kittybunny (backed by @marynnu )
34h - @bbsaz
35h 25m - @Dotta
41h 15m - @Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc
45h 10m - @esther43
58h - @Jw192
70h - @bobbymkii
75h - @CS2C
80h - @V347
Mon 10th - day 1 (afternoon only) - 2pm to 4pm minus 5mins = 1h 55m
Tue 11th - day 2 - 4h 20m
Wed 12th - day 3 - 4h 20m
Thu 13th - day 4 - 4h 20m
Fri 14th - day 5 - 4h 20m
Mon 24th - day 6 - 4h 20m
Tue 25th - day 7 - 4h 20m
Wed 26th - day 8 - 4h 15m
Running total = 32h 10m
Still in the game -
32h 14m - @Kittybunny (backed by @marynnu )
34h - @bbsaz
35h 25m - @Dotta
41h 15m - @Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc
45h 10m - @esther43
58h - @Jw192
70h - @bobbymkii
75h - @CS2C
80h - @V347
Ignore this it was baby N
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