UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #3

[Music2022]

The defense may not need any experts if they can destroy the credibility of the experts called by the prosecution.

mr myers mentioned a professor who can offer alternative theories so he will be called I think?

 

[Marantz4250b]

The prosecution stated Facebook search dates which were well before any police investigation?

I'm sure that one (or more) was done about three months prior to her arrest. April 2018?

 

[Music2022]

The defence says a lot of those things were not out of the ordinary : the gas, the screaming, the distended stomach etc.. but looks like the consultants working on the ward did find them out of the ordinary and unexpected? and they see sick neonatals all day so they’d know what’s normal in daily care. These events must’ve been unusual enough in their severity to warrant suspicion in the Drs?

 

[Powermjp]

The defense may not need any experts if they can destroy the credibility of the experts called by the prosecution.

Oh yes I know, I guess my point was for an opening statement I didn't find it very strong. Compared to the prosecution.

But there is a long way to go

 

[Rhomal]

I don't think they're wealthy but I don't think they're skint either. Just the impression I get.

Not relevant. Defence would be free.

 

[Gardenista]

Oh yes I know, I guess my point was for an opening statement I didn't find it very strong. Compared to the prosecution.

But there is a long way to go

The problem is that it's impossible to know without being able to watch it ourselves because we don't know exactly what was said.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I have never known any case of this magnitude to have so many twists, turns and outright staggeringly shocking events over such a length of time. It's just mind-boggling, quite frankly! At this point I'd be rather surprised if we got to six months will all the jurors still in place.

There are two reserve jurors, who are also hearing the evidence. They will replace anyone who drops out.

In the event that further jurors drop out after the reserves have been used, then there is technically provision for the jury to drop to 10 jurors (from 12) but no lower. In this case all 10 would need to agree on the verdict (guilty or not guilty).

if the jury dropped to 11 then in the first instance all would need to agree on the verdict. If after considerable deliberation a verdict could not be reached, on which they were all agreed, then the judge may accept a majority verdict of 10 jurors in agreement.

Without a majority verdict being reached or if the jury went below 10 then the remaining jury would be discharged and they would have to start all over again, from the beginning!

 

[Dcflag]

I disagree. If there is "no explanation" for something they are saying it isn't murder. The prosecution cannot prove murder in the face of there being nothing to explain the collapse/death.

No explanation just means they have no alternative explanation to the prosecution as far as I’m concerned. The prosecution have offered their explanation. The defence have no explanation other than, it might just be an unexplained collapse. The prosecution can still prove murder through supporting testimonies and other evidences.

 

[Music2022]

I'm sure that one (or more) was done about three months prior to her arrest. April 2018?

If she was interviewed by police before the arrest about a baby she could’ve then just checked on the said family after the interview?

 

[Dcflag]

3:15pm

The defence say Letby's lack of recollecting details in police interviews should be put into context, like other witnesses, who may not be able to recall anything beyond the notes they made at the time.
"Goodness knows how many babies she will have cared for over the years," Mr Myers said.

Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

THE prosecution in the trial of Lucy Letby, accused of murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Are they indicating she has Facebook searched lots of babies and not just those listed in the charges? Because she certainly has remembers many of these babies names to be searching them years later?

 

[Gardenista]

If I was the judge and already lost 2 jurors, I'd probably call a mistrial and start over. It's early in the process and they need way more alternates than they have for a 6 month trial.

 

[Marantz4250b]

There are two reserve jurors, who are also hearing the evidence. They will replace anyone who drops out.

In the event that further jurors drop out after the reserves have been used, then there is technically provision for the jury to drop to 10 jurors (from 12) but no lower. In this case all 10 would need to agree on the verdict (guilty or not guilty).

if the jury dropped to 11 then in the first instance all would need to agree on the verdict. If after considerable deliberation a verdict could not be reached, on which they were all agreed, then the judge may accept a majority verdict of 10 jurors in agreement.

Without a majority verdict being reached or if the jury went below 10 then the remaining jury would be discharged and they would have to start all over again, from the beginning!

One reserve has already gone, according to the reporting, along with one regular juror. That suggests there aren't any reserves left.

 

[JosieJo]

I'm sure that one (or more) was done about three months prior to her arrest. April 2018?

A lot of them were 2015 I think ..the Xmas one was also 2015

 

[Powermjp]

At what point are jurors dropping out an issue, is there a number they can still go on with? Any experts ? How many reserve ones would there be in a huge case like this

 

[Marantz4250b]

No explanation just means they have no alternative explanation to the prosecution as far as I’m concerned. The prosecution have offered their explanation. The defence have no explanation other than, it might just be an unexplained collapse. The prosecution can still prove murder through supporting testimonies and other evidences.

I think they are saying that there is no explanation for the event at all. Not murder nor any identifiable medical cause.

 

[KatherineGA]

The defence state that Ms Letby wouldn’t or couldn’t remember certain situations regarding the care of particular babies but she certainly remembered anniversaries of deaths .

The notes she wrote are very compelling!

 

[Marantz4250b]

If she was interviewed by police before the arrest about a baby she could’ve then just checked on the said family after the interview?

Yes, that's what I'm getting at.

 

[Marantz4250b]

If I was the judge and already lost 2 jurors, I'd probably call a mistrial and start over. It's early in the process and they need way more alternates than they have for a 6 month trial.

I'm not sure whether the law provides for more alternates?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Is legal aid only available if you're unemployed or would aid of that scale be available if you're employed and faced a court case as large as this one?

I haven't done any calculations but the vast majority of folk in employment would get full legal aid in such a case.

Put it like this, you'd need to be so well heeled that you could instruct three of the best barristers at the same time, rather than maybe a couple of junior ones on the team, sitting behind Mr M KC.

Additionally, the super team may have found a way to secure conditional bail, before the trial, too.

Mrs Rooney's costs were about £2M....although defamation cases aren't cheap. This one is 6 months in court and that doesn't include all the pre-trial and intra-trial preparation.....eye watering!

 

[Officer Dibble]

Now, this is indeed very DARK, if proven to be true.

Facebook stalking can be debatable. But this!

This part in the article you link was a chilling read:
"Dr Ravi Jayaram, a paediatric consultant who has appeared on This Morning and the One Show, had helped deliver the baby on February 17, 2016, weighing just 692g.

While arrangements were being made for Child K to be transferred to a specialist hospital, the medic was aware Letby was alone with her, it is alleged.

Nick Johnson KC, prosecuting, said: "Feeling uncomfortable with this because he had started to notice the coincidence between the unexplained deaths, serious collapses and the presence of Lucy Letby, Dr Jayaram decided to check on where Lucy Letby was and how child K was.

"As he walked into room one, he saw Letby standing over child K's incubator. She did not have her hands inside the incubator, but Dr Jayaram could see from the monitor on the wall that child K's oxygen saturation level was falling dangerously low, to somewhere in the 80s."


"But the alarm was not sounding as it should have been and Lucy Letby had not called for help, despite child K's oxygen levels falling.

"We allege she was trying to kill child K when Dr Jayaram walked in."

Especially the part bolded by me. BBM.

Edited to add: JMO MOO