GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #3

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Tbh it's reminding me of Beverley Allitt, the investigating officer said similar about her appearance and how well liked she was by the families as a reason why they didn't at first suspect her

Personally, I fail to see any comparison and BA was an overtly troubled person who could never have been able to work steadily never mind come off as a regular responsible hard working person, neither was she blessed with looking like an average middle class white 'English rose' type.

Verifying Device

 

[kittythehare]

Can't help but think about the ramifications of this trial. Firstly, regardless of outcome, there is going to be so much doubt from people who think she's innocent, and people who think she's guilty. It's already so muddy, but because of the content of the crimes (if indeed there are crimes) people will have an exceptionally strong opinion on it.

On top of that, it's going to change everything about patient records and so forth.

When Covid has managed to kill millions and changed nothing, this is a mere drop in the ocean. Someone chucked the rulebooks.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Total agree with this and know someone who demonstrated this when they were wrongly accused of rape and started to question their own sanity and memory.

There was a case in Iceland in the 1970's where a group of young people falsely confessed to a murder after having been essentially mentally tortured by police. I'm sure some of them came to believe that they had actually done what they were accused of when they hadn't.

Yes, it's very different to the case we are discussing here but it does show that people's minds can do very strange things under certain circumstances.

There is a documentary on this case called Out Of Thin Air. It's very good.

 

[Sundial]

Some good points in there. Do you have a link to the pic of her wearing a ring? I've never noticed anything like that.

I was a little reluctant to post the link but its definitely still there. I can’t recall if it was the same photo (I’ve seen two) where she’s wearing a ring (left hand fourth finger, looks very much like an engagement ring to me) and another photo (still wearing the ring) with a gentlemen next to her (perhaps it is the same night? Who knows ‍). In one photo his face is pixelated and in another, it is not.

Day one of the trial I couldn’t help but wonder if she’d lost a child herself perhaps, and where there is reference made to not having children/a family, it took my thoughts back to the photo with the ring and if something had happened there- hence her state of mind. I’m purely speculating and of course and have no actual idea. However, it appears she might have been engaged at some point, the photo was still recently available on images published by the press online just by searching the case by her name.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think I know the one being referred to. The ring is on the right hand so not likely to be an engagement ring. it's the commonly used one in a pink top and white jacket, holding a drink.

Aye, highly unlikely to be an engagement ring, tbh.

 

[elephantsomething]

When Covid has managed to kill millions and changed nothing, this is a mere drop in the ocean. Someone chucked the rulebooks.

Disagree. Shipman changed a lot of processes.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Handover sheets are not kept or part of patients notes.
They are just printed out each shift basically a list of names on your ward and then at handover you use it to document anything you need to know ..for example if nil by mouth or going home etc
Yes they are confidential and should be put in the confidential waste bin at the end of shift
Sometimes you forget
The only time you may get disciplinary action if you leave it accidentally in a public place and reported

If it has personal information on it (name, dob etc)....it is confidential personal data. This includes staff details

if it has ANY medical information relating to an individual it is Special Category Data (even more serious)

Removing or retaining it without the permission of the Data Controller is an offence under DPA 1996 or 2018

Additionally, a breach of Caldecot Principles and conditions in a contract of employment, regarding the security of data, and there could be a triple whammy of workplace discipline, being sued in the civil court and criminal proceedings.

Ignorance is no defence in law and many don't seem to be aware of this and how it could impact career and financial position.

 

[kittythehare]

Yes, it would be great to have a timeline for each baby we can refer to on the thread. It would probably take up a full page, though. <modsnip>

There is one and it's very well done.
@Tortoise ?
check if it's in media thread.

 

[annpats]

We are reading words and phrases hopefully all with reasonably well-balanced, rational heads on.

Seeing the note as judge, jury and executioner is to completely misunderstand the objectivity that is needed to assess the whole of the evidence on its relative (prosecution v defence) merits. We are in day 3 of 180 or so and some already want her head on a plate.

Thankfully, the court will progress calmly and diligently to their conclusion next Spring, when the heady days of Summer beckon.

I WAS reading the note objectively, and again, I will say I don't think it shows any compassion or remorse. But, that is just my opinion on it.

 

[merrypason]

I was a little reluctant to post the link but its definitely still there. I can’t recall if it was the same photo (I’ve seen two) where she’s wearing a ring (left hand fourth finger, looks very much like an engagement ring to me) and another photo (still wearing the ring) with a gentlemen next to her (perhaps it is the same night? Who knows ‍). In one photo his face is pixelated and in another, it is not.

Day one of the trial I couldn’t help but wonder if she’d lost a child herself perhaps, and where there is reference made to not having children/a family, it took my thoughts back to the photo with the ring and if something had happened there- hence her state of mind. I’m purely speculating and of course and have no actual idea. However, it appears she might have been engaged at some point, the photo was still recently available on images published by the press online just by searching the case by her name.

You're right! I hadn't noticed that photo before. It's not the most clear but there's definitely a ring on her left ring finger. Looks like she's between two lads with pixellated faces.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Personally, I fail to see any comparison and BA was an overtly troubled person who could never have been able to work steadily never mind come off as a regular responsible hard working person, neither was she blessed with looking like an average middle class white 'English rose' type.

Verifying Device

Exactly my thoughts. People constantly compare her to BA and there is no comparison I can see other than they're both nurses. LL and BA are two very different people and it's plainly obvious that their personalities are histories are vastly different.

 

[rick shaw]

Evening.
Question to members with knowledge of prescribing,dispensing rules/records in NHS re insulin in ward.
So we can be aware further in case.Thankd

 

[Powermjp]

I feel the NHS trust and staff were put in a horrible situation.

A spike in baby deaths over a course of time pointing to someone. And to someone who looks and seemed so nice. The thing they would be accusing of is one of the worst things possible. But having to be certain or be accused and have a lawsuit for bullying. It's a horrible situation for them, a lot of pressure.

And the defence is going to drag the trust and staff through the mud to push the blame onto them for inadequate care etc.

 

[kittythehare]

Personally, I fail to see any comparison and BA was an overtly troubled person who could never have been able to work steadily never mind come off as a regular responsible hard working person, neither was she blessed with looking like an average middle class white 'English rose' type.

Verifying Device

If she completed nurse training and passed her exams and required a full internal investigation before being identified she was steady enough to pass muster! I don't think she was unattractive based on photos in your link. I've heard of her case but not read up on it.
I don't think looks have much to do with it.
Reading Sun article it appears to be very similar.

 

[elephantsomething]

I feel the NHS trust and staff were put in a horrible situation.

A spike in baby deaths over a course of time pointing to someone. But having to be certain or be accused and have a lawsuit for bullying. It's a horrible situation for them, a lot of pressure.

And the defence is going to drag the trust and staff through the mud to push the blame onto them for inadequate care etc.

Fundamentally, regardless of whether LL is guilty of murder, the Trust/management are undoubtedly guilty of inadequate care. Either they've had X number of babies die due to bad practices over a year, or they've had an active serial killer for a year and did nothing meaningful to stop it.

 

[Jules2021]

Can someone confirm-they are only looking at a year long period to ensure a conviction and she actually could've started earlier?

 

[29 Acacia Road]

These cases are so rare (thankfully) I'm not sure the traditional jury trial is the right way to handle them. I have much more faith in the UK jury system than I do in the US (sorry to you people across the pond), but it is still a big ask for members of the public. I do wonder in these very limited circumstances, whether some sort of independant panel of experts and a judge would be better for these cases. With the evidence (described so far) being so circumstancial and statistical I wonder if people with knowledge of medical statistics, death rates all these type of things, along with a judge, would be better hearing and deciding these cases. I am aware a review was done before the police came involved.

 

[Tortoise]

There is one and it's very well done.
@Tortoise ?
check if it's in media thread.

It's in this thread, on page 2

link to post https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...mpted-murder-of-babies-3.639601/post-17816520

 

[Mother maiden crone]

Hi
Just a thought but could her note in fact be deliberate ,as in, she maybe knew she had been caught and there was no getting away from it in her mind,and she also knew her home would most likely be searched.So she scribbled lots of ramblings deliberately, aswell as admitting guilt in a round about way.
To deliberately put a twist on things..a sort of reverse psychology.
So people would in fact say , well...why write things like that down if you were actually guilty.You have basically thrown yourself under the bus.
These are the unhinged ramblings of a disturbed guilty person or are they ? That's maybe what she wanted to happen because she knew she was caught.
Does that make sense.

 

[smucklecrumble]

Personally, I fail to see any comparison and BA was an overtly troubled person who could never have been able to work steadily never mind come off as a regular responsible hard working person, neither was she blessed with looking like an average middle class white 'English rose' type.

Verifying Device

Dusing the documentary with Trevor McDonald it was comment ed about her small stature and soft voice making it initially unbelievable. I'm not saying the cases are the same simply that it reminded me of that