UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #3

[JosieJo]

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It would be quite difficult not to show emotion at those closing words whether you were guilty or not

 

[Powermjp]

The charge on baby Q looks very bad for the defence, hardly any milk in the stomach, but lots of air had been put inside the stomach. And that looks to be the one that got her put away from the babies and on clerical duties

 

[Whitehall 1212]

“On another piece of paper, she wrote: 'I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough”.

“'I am a horrible evil person' and in capital letters, 'I AM EVIL I DID THIS'.

"That, in a nutshell," Mr Johnson tells the court, "is your case."

Oh. My. Good. Lord. Sickening, god knows how the defence will ‘defend’ this.

Methinks the source of such a piece of paper will be put under the microscope!

Did anyone else have to gain if LL carries the can for this?

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

It would be quite difficult not to show emotion at those closing words whether you were guilty or not

well prepared by her lawyers, probably.
I have searched for a description of her court demeanour every day.

 

[kittythehare]

Yeah, using the argument they are all shorthand notes from a meeting with her Solicitor and that it was somehow her writing down what she was being accused of is the only quasi-plausible explanation I can come up with.

or a phone call..

 

[Rusty Braincells]

We are getting a much, much better idea of the evidence now. It’s clearly not just the coincidence of shift patterns and deaths.

 

[Supernovae]

I wonder if she may say she was writing down what she thought she was been accused of, what the investigation was trying to say about her, but rather than write;

"they are saying I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough. I am a horrible evil person' 'I AM EVIL I DID THIS"

She instead wrote it as if she was actually saying it herself, about herself.

I think that would be a stretch and most people would find it hard to believe, but I can't think of many other attempts to explain it.

The only other explanations are mental breakdown or it was a record of harassing comments by others, either online, over the phone or in person.

 

[Tortoise]

The death of baby Q looks very bad for the defence, hardly any milk in the stomach, but lots of air had been put inside the stomach. And that death looks to be the one that got her put away from the babies and on clerical duties

And the post mortem looks like the air was the cause of death. She took home those hand over notes home.

Baby Q survived, the charge is attempted murder.

List of charges here : UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #3

 

[gc105]

Just thinking out loud here…

So the writings were discovered upon the first arrest/house search in July 2018. At this point, LL would have been aware of the investigation by the trust/police and would have been on admin duty for approx 2 years. However, at this point, she had not yet been arrested or officially accused of any criminality. So these writings/the ‘confession’ note were made BEFORE her first arrest. IMO - the timing of these is pretty significant. Had it been at some point in between her arrests there could have been a possible argument that these were written in a state of mental distress following police interview etc. But personally, for me, having been written prior to any arrests is very telling.

Also - I believe the more rational writings:
“Why/how has this happened – what process has led to this current situation. What allegations have been made and by who? Do they have written evidence to support their comments?" - could also still be suggestive of guilt and LL trying to rationalise her thoughts on paper/writing down her though process with regards to any ‘actual’ evidence to prove guilt/who is responsible for her ultimately being ‘caught’ etc.

Furthermore, the handover notes pertaining to a number of her victims being found at her home is concerning to me. Patient notes are strictly confidential and should never be taken out of the clinical setting. For them to be discovered at her home 2-3 years after the incidents is damning. She had PLENTY opportunity to discard these but chose not to (if it was only one it could be excused as accidentally being taken home - that sometimes happens after a long shift, but are always returned and disposed of at the earlier opportunity).

Also to add - I’m finding it very difficult to buy into the ‘coincidence’ theory/reasoning (that I’m sure the defence will use). in cases of isolated incidents, absolutely. However, for 7 deaths and 15 near-deaths to occur in little over a years period under the care/eye of one staff member (who in a large number of the instances wasn’t even their designated nurse) is damning (IMO). Especially when in some instances these were infants who had been otherwise ‘well’ then suddenly deteriorated with no known cause.

All just my opinion of course. But I personally believe the handover notes & the writings found are damning evidence.

Edited to add: quotes above from The Leader Live LIVE: Prosecution to finish outlining its case in Lucy Letby trial

 

[Sarahlou]

“On another piece of paper, she wrote: 'I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough”.

“'I am a horrible evil person' and in capital letters, 'I AM EVIL I DID THIS'.

"That, in a nutshell," Mr Johnson tells the court, "is your case."

Oh. My. Good. Lord. Sickening, god knows how the defence will ‘defend’ this.

And there it is. Wow.... Absolutely sickening.

 

[Music2022]

So the writings were discovered upon the first arrest/house search in July 2018. At this point, LL would have been aware of the investigation by the trust/police and would have been on admin duty for approx 2 years. However, at this point, she had not yet been arrested or officially accused of any criminality. So these writings/the ‘confession’ note were made BEFORE her first arrest. IMO - the timing of these is pretty significant. Had it been at some point in between her arrests there could have been a possible argument that these were written in a state of mental distress following police interview etc. But personally, for me, having been written prior to any arrests is very telling.

I was just thinking that. These notes were made before she was arrested and charged.

 

[merrypason]

It does seem like multiple consultants were questioning her behaviour (Dr G sounds different to Dr R), not just one on a witch hunt. And it's good tbh they put her on admin duties and allowed a very long and thorough police investigation to happen before arresting her. The falsification of notes on so many of these cases too is just wrong, and the fact she never raised any alarms herself (not that has been disclosed so far).

On the other hand, irrespective of this case, I doubt she will work as a nurse again because the unprofessionalism and breach of patient privacy is not good.

Just thinking out loud here…

So the writings were discovered upon the first arrest/house search in July 2018. At this point, LL would have been aware of the investigation by the trust/police and would have been on admin duty for approx 2 years. However, at this point, she had not yet been arrested or officially accused of any criminality. So these writings/the ‘confession’ note were made BEFORE her first arrest. IMO - the timing of these is pretty significant. Had it been at some point in between her arrests there could have been a possible argument that these were written in a state of mental distress following police interview etc. But personally, for me, having been written prior to any arrests is very telling.

Also - I believe the more rational writings:
“Why/how has this happened – what process has led to this current situation. What allegations have been made and by who? Do they have written evidence to support their comments?" - could also still be suggestive of guilt and LL trying to rationalise her thoughts on paper/writing down her though process with regards to any ‘actual’ evidence to prove guilt/who is responsible for her ultimately being ‘caught’ etc.

Furthermore, the handover notes pertaining to a number of her victims being found at her home is concerning to me. Patient notes are strictly confidential and should never be taken out of the clinical setting. For them to be discovered at her home 2-3 years after the incidents is damning. She had PLENTY opportunity to discard these but chose not to (if it was only one it could be excused as accidentally being taken home - that sometimes happens after a long shift, but are always returned and disposed of at the earlier opportunity).

All just my opinion of course. But I personally believe the handover notes & the writings found are fanning evidence.

Yes, this is what I thought. Those handover notes are significant because she KNEW she was being suspected the day she took home Baby Q's notes. The texting with the doctor earlier. If you know you're being questioned, why would not be extra careful to not take home a document you absolutely shouldn't???

 

[merrypason]

DM has quoted her also writing "I will never have children or marry", "I can't breathe" and "Kill".

Lucy Letby 'wrote Post-It note declaring: I AM EVIL. I DID THIS'

Police also found post-it notes, allegedly written by Chester nurse Letby, including one that said: 'I don't deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough... to care for them'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

9m ago12:14

Court has resumed​

Once the jury has entered, it is expected the defence will begin its opening argument.

3m ago12:20

Defence begins by saying 'all we have so far is a theory of guilt based firmly on coincidence'​

Ben Myers KC has begun his opening statement, speaking in defence of Lucy Letby.
He begins by acknowledging to the jury how saddening the allegations are.
"It is difficult to think of allegations that could be more upsetting than these and it's difficult to think of allegations that strike harder at our desire to protect than these allegations," he says.
He says "the sympathy of everyone will rightly be with the families of the children involved in this case" and the defence is not here to "diminish" that.
He tells the jury it would be "easy for emotion to take the place of evidence" but says that would be "staggeringly unfair" to the defendant.
"There is a real danger that people will simply accept the prosecution theory of guilt," he tells the court.
"And that is all that we have so far. A theory of guilt, based firmly on coincidence."
Mr Myers tells the court blame should not be "heaped on that woman", while pointing at Letby, and says others may have made mistakes.
"Sometimes what happened was a genuine deterioration in the health of one or other of these children," he says.

https://news.sky.com/story/lucy-let...d-nurse-12716378?postid=4649595#liveblog-body
Lucy Letby trial - latest: Nurse 'took photo of baby brothers in cot after murdering them'

 

[gc105]

"What we are left with is coincidence.

"In the events that happened. Sometimes what happened was the result of deterioration in a baby.

"Sometimes, no-one can say what caused a deterioration.

"Sometimes, things have gone wrong, or the necessary standards of care have not been met, irrespective of anything to do with Lucy Letby. For that, she should not get the blame."

Exactly as I said previously, defence going down the route of ‘coincidence’.

I’ll repeat…I’m finding it very difficult to buy into the ‘coincidence’ theory/reasoning (that I’m sure the defence will use). in cases of isolated incidents, absolutely. However, for 7 deaths and 15 near-deaths to occur in little over a years period under the care/eye of one staff member (who in a large number of the instances wasn’t even their designated nurse) is damning (IMO). Especially when in some instances these were infants who had been otherwise ‘well’ then suddenly deteriorated with no known cause. Additionally, many of these infants ‘collapsed’ in similar manners and presented with similar symptoms (mottling/vomiting/air in abdomen etc). Also, in the attempted murder charges - these infants made remarkable recoveries when removed from LL’s care.

That to me is no coincidence. (Again, MOO).

Edited to add: quote above from The Leader Live (live trial coverage) LIVE: Prosecution to finish outlining its case in Lucy Letby trial

 

[kittythehare]

It does seem like multiple consultants were questioning her behaviour (Dr G sounds different to Dr R), not just one on a witch hunt. And it's good tbh they put her on admin duties and allowed a very long and thorough police investigation to happen before arresting her. The falsification of notes on so many of these cases too is just wrong, and the fact she never raised any alarms herself (not that has been disclosed so far).

On the other hand, irrespective of this case, I doubt she will work as a nurse again because the unprofessionalism and breach of patient privacy is not good.

Yes, this is what I thought. Those handover notes are significant because she KNEW she was being suspected the day she took home Baby Q's notes. The texting with the doctor earlier. If you know you're being questioned, why would not be extra careful to not take home a document you absolutely shouldn't???

Maybe pedantic of me but patient notes are written in a continuation..
The nurse writing subsequent notes would have raised an alarm at the missing notes..
unless there were duplications created for some reason?
She had overheard the consultant querying matters
'should I be worried?'
Were they originals or copies?

Not sure what system was in use there at the time.

 

[Legally Bland]

12:13pm

Mr Myers: "It is difficult to think of allegations that may be harder to stand back and look fairly and look at the actual evidence.
"The sympathy of everyone will rightly be with families of the children...involved in this case. We all share the same feelings and experiences."

12:15pm

"It is natural to sympathise - we all do it. We recognise the sadness, distress and anger that come with allegations like these.
"We acknolwedge the great loss suffered by all families.
"Nothing I can say in this trial is intended to diminish that in any way.
"It is obvious...where we have such terrible allegations, it would be terribly easy for emotion to overcome reason, and convict without hearing a word of evidence."

12:16pm

"There is a real danger people will simply accept the prosecution 'theory' of guilt.
"It is a theory built 'firmly' on coincidence."

12:18pm

"What we are left with is coincidence.
"In the events that happened. Sometimes what happened was the result of deterioration in a baby.
"Sometimes, no-one can say what caused a deterioration.
"Sometimes, things have gone wrong, or the necessary standards of care have not been met, irrespective of anything to do with Lucy Letby. For that, she should not get the blame."

Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

THE prosecution in the trial of Lucy Letby, accused of murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Music2022]

It does seem like multiple consultants were questioning her behaviour (Dr G sounds different to Dr R), not just one on a witch hunt.

I agree. I think it must've been extremely rare to see these kids dying and suffering from this inexplicable symptoms to cause the consultants to be worried of foul play. if they were dying from infection or more common things it would've been a different scenario but this huge amount of similar collapses is just scary.

 

[kittythehare]

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[Sarahlou]

DM has quoted her also writing "I will never have children or marry", "I can't breathe" and "Kill".

Lucy Letby 'wrote Post-It note declaring: I AM EVIL. I DID THIS'

Police also found post-it notes, allegedly written by Chester nurse Letby, including one that said: 'I don't deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough... to care for them'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Completely overwhelming evidence today.

Did she even try to go the insanity route? I can't remember now.