UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #4

[MsBetsy]

Those aren't comments about being bored at work though.

I wonder why she added that the babies died 'under different circumstances?'

She seemed to be the only one to think so or who didn't find anything unusual about babies who were doing well to suddenly collapse or die. Imo

 

[bastien]

Aired on 9th June sure. This video clip trailer of the show was posted on BBC website on 2 June.

BBC Two - An Hour To Save Your Life, Series 2, Surviving Birth, Neonatal surgery

Laura gives birth to a baby girl who has been diagnosed with CDH during the pregnancy.

www.bbc.co.uk

Any guesses what the trailer was about? Air in bowel.

For child B on 9th June.

After efforts to resuscitate Child B, Child B "recovered very quickly".

A doctor subsequently found "loops of gas filled bowel"

This doesn't necessarily suggest anything untoward, however. It would be easy to argue that air in the bowel is such a common concern that the BBC have just made a program about it.
Though some will undoubtedly claim that the show as a source of inspiration (despite the fact that all nurses on the ward are trained and will have training and experience regarding air in the bowel).

 

[notsure]

Regarding this morning's 11.50 court update, which said: "Letby's colleague messaged her there was something 'odd' about that night."

I wonder if they'll interview the colleague to find out what they meant by "something odd."

 

[Tortoise]

2:10pm

The trial has now resumed.
The next electronic evidence bundle is being shown, for Child B. Intelligence analyst Claire Hocknell has returned to give evidence.

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

 

[Tortoise]

I'm just going to be away for an hour or so, I'll catch up with updates later unless anyone else wants to jump in.

 

[JosieJo]

12:03pm

The court had earlier heard messages sent between Letby and colleagues.
Letby said in one message to a colleague, regarding the death of Child A: "Think we all need answers."
She later messaged to say she had been watching 'An Hour to Save Your Life', about a life working in a neonatal unit.
Letby's colleague responded: "...don't really watch thinks like that...get enough in work".
Letby responded: "I just find it interesting, to see how our work is portrayed to the public."

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

So she watched a TV programme that dealt partly with the dangers of air in babies stomach and how to manage it and a few days later Dr's are saying that baby died of air in stomach/ bowels am I reading correctly?

 

[JosieJo]

I do find the number of Facebook searches a little unnerving I also feel as if there was a need for her to seem to message her colleagues quite a lot about the events. Jmo

 

[Legally Bland]

2:34pm

The medical notes presented to the court are in the same format as for Child A.

2:45pm

Child B's lungs were examined to be "clear" and the child was "very alert" and "active", on the morning of June 9.
A 'weaning programme' note is made at 11am, which is for the weaning of Child B off breathing support.

2:49pm

A further nursing note showed Child B was 'very stable' after being weaned off CPAP and allowed time to be with Child B's mum, before returning to CPAP with a view to further weaning off.

3:00pm

A nursing note recorded in the afternoon of June 9 said "maximum support" was being offered to the family of Child A and B, who were still "understandably" very upset.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more while working as a Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[catgreen]

They were handover sheets and it's already been said that although they shouldn't be taken home they often are unintentionally.

The doctors medical notes have also been referred to as being made retrospectively. I'm thinking that they just mean made at a time that wasn't at the time it was happening which, as you say, is the story with any type of note so I don't really see why it's relevant.

that is interesting - over a period of 14 years I worked full time in approximately 10 different hospitals and I have never heard of this idea that confidential patient records (needed by colleagues at the hospital) were OFTEN taken home unintentionally! Even colleagues who were disorganised didn't do this because the records are legal docs that are kept at the hospital, it is hard for me to even imagine a scenario where I might 'accidentally' take someones records home with me and if I had I would be mortified to discover them. If it was happening often it would suggest there is a serious, systemic problem. Maybe I am 'out of date' and a handover sheet is not taken so seriously?

 

[Legally Bland]

3:07pm

A diagram of the neonatal unit, showing which nurses were designated to which rooms during the relevant shift on the night of June 9, is presented to the court.
Child B is in room 1, while Letby is assigned to look after two babies in room 3.
The court hears one of Letby's colleagues is the designated nurse for Child B and another baby in room 1. Following Child B's collapse, another nurse took over looking after the other baby in room 1.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more while working as a Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

that is interesting - over a period of 14 years I worked full time in approximately 10 different hospitals and I have never heard of this idea that confidential patient records (needed by colleagues at the hospital) were OFTEN taken home unintentionally! Even colleagues who were disorganised didn't do this because the records are legal docs that are kept at the hospital, it is hard for me to even imagine a scenario where I might 'accidentally' take someones records home with me and if I had I would be mortified to discover them. If it was happening often it would suggest there is a serious, systemic problem. Maybe I am 'out of date' and a handover sheet is not taken so seriously?

This was addressed the other day. I think it's the fact that they are simply hand-over sheets which are a one time use thing and then get destroyed. They don't constitute part of the person's medical record, it's an internal management thing. I think that more than one person on here has given accounts of them being taken home accidentally, in one case being found months later on a house move.

 

[JosieJo]

This was addressed the other day. I think it's the fact that they are simply hand-over sheets which are a one time use thing and then get destroyed. They don't constitute part of the person's medical record, it's an internal management thing. I think that more than one person on here has given accounts of them being taken home accidentally, in one case being found months later on a house move.

Yes they are taken accidentally quite a lot ..what we need to know when it's presented is where was it found and if there was any cause to think it was kept with purpose

 

[merrypason]

This doesn't necessarily suggest anything untoward, however. It would be easy to argue that air in the bowel is such a common concern that the BBC have just made a program about it.
Though some will undoubtedly claim that the show as a source of inspiration (despite the fact that all nurses on the ward are trained and will have training and experience regarding air in the bowel).

Think it's a bit of a stretch to say the BBC made a programme on air in the bowel. They were filming live in a ward and the doctors were talking about how they had to be careful to prevent it happening to one of their patients.

If she knew about it, she would have agreed with her colleague finding it odd that 4 babies had similar problems relating to air? Because air in bowel is considered a risky incident to be avoided?

Doesn't matter whether we think it odd, we don't know what was normal for her ward - we do know that her own colleague found it odd enough to text it to her. Not just a passing thought, but something she cared enough about to text.

Yet Lucy didn't see it as odd or even tell her colleague she'd seen it on the show - despite talking to her colleague about the show.

If you watch a show and days later a very similar thing on the show happens to you twice, you're discussing the show with a colleague - but don't mention the similarities between your patient and the show? At that point she would have known the doctor's diagnosis of air in the abdomen causing the collapse, she would see it on tv as causing suffocation - yet this happened multiple times more to patients she attended and she didn't find it odd or raise concerns?

 

[Legally Bland]

3:19pm

Nursing notes written by the designated nurse, written in retrospect, found Child B's CPAP prongs had been pushed out of the nose, and oxygen saturation levels had fallen to 75%, before midnight. The prongs were repositioned, and after "a little while", the oxygen levels recovered.
The heart rate was stable and there was "good respiratory effort throughout". Child B was observed to be "stable" prior to midnight.
Letby is then involved with administering nutrition at 12.05am.

3:23pm

Letby is a co-signer for the nutrition prescription at 12.05am on June 10.

3:30pm

A blood gases record by Letby of Child B is made at 12.16am and another at what appears to be 12.51am, the latter "during neopuffing".

3:33pm

The designated nurse's record for the desaturation and collapse event at 12.30am, written retrospectively, includes the notes: "Sudden desaturation to 50%.
"Colour changed rapidly to purple blotchiness with white patches.
"Emergency call for doctors put out."
A 'fast bleep' alert for a nurse to attend the neonatal unit as soon as they can is made at 12.33am.
The court hears this is a 'crash call'.

3:40pm

Following emergency treatment, Child B was placed on a ventilator and 'good air entry' was noted. A doctor entered the neonatal unit at 12.34am and the on-call consultant was called at home at 12.36am.
Child B's "colour started to improve almost as quickly as it had deteriorated", and morphine treatment began, while the parents were called to the unit and kept informed at cotside.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more while working as a Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[JosieJo]

3:19pm

Nursing notes written by the designated nurse, written in retrospect, found Child B's CPAP prongs had been pushed out of the nose, and oxygen saturation levels had fallen to 75%, before midnight. The prongs were repositioned, and after "a little while", the oxygen levels recovered.
The heart rate was stable and there was "good respiratory effort throughout". Child B was observed to be "stable" prior to midnight.
Letby is then involved with administering nutrition at 12.05am.

3:23pm

Letby is a co-signer for the nutrition prescription at 12.05am on June 10.

3:30pm

A blood gases record by Letby of Child B is made at 12.16am and another at what appears to be 12.51am, the latter "during neopuffing".

3:33pm

The designated nurse's record for the desaturation and collapse event at 12.30am, written retrospectively, includes the notes: "Sudden desaturation to 50%.
"Colour changed rapidly to purple blotchiness with white patches.
"Emergency call for doctors put out."
A 'fast bleep' alert for a nurse to attend the neonatal unit as soon as they can is made at 12.33am.
The court hears this is a 'crash call'.

3:40pm

Following emergency treatment, Child B was placed on a ventilator and 'good air entry' was noted. A doctor entered the neonatal unit at 12.34am and the on-call consultant was called at home at 12.36am.
Child B's "colour started to improve almost as quickly as it had deteriorated", and morphine treatment began, while the parents were called to the unit and kept informed at cotside.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more while working as a Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I'd be interested to know why she took a blood gas at 2.16 prior to the collapse?

 

[Tortoise]

This doesn't necessarily suggest anything untoward, however. It would be easy to argue that air in the bowel is such a common concern that the BBC have just made a program about it.
Though some will undoubtedly claim that the show as a source of inspiration (despite the fact that all nurses on the ward are trained and will have training and experience regarding air in the bowel).

The baby in the programme was born with her stomach and bowel in her chest, creating the danger that air in the bowel could suffocate her/squash her lungs.

The prosecution experts have concluded that babies A and B had air injected into their bloodstreams. According to the mother, the consultant wanted to photograph baby A's skin discolouration because she had never seen it before.

I think it's a mistake to compare the two. If it was a common naturally occurring event I think it would have factored into the prosecution experts conclusions. IMO

 

[Legally Bland]

3:43pm

Clinical notes recorded by the consultant recorded for 12.50am: "Suddenly purple blotching of body all over with slowing of heart rate.
"Bagged and then tubed by registrar. Heart rate came up. Adrenaline not required."

3:45pm

Letby is recorded taking the hourly observations at 1am for Child B in room 1.
The prosecution reminds the court Letby was the designated nurse for two babies in room 3 at the start of her shift.

3:48pm

A note timed at 1.09am from an x-ray said Child B's lungs were "mildly hyperinflated" and "clear".

3:52pm

Child B was also noted, from a note at 12.45am, to have a "full/mildly distended" abdomen.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more while working as a Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Dcflag]

I'd be interested to know why she took a blood gas at 2.16 prior to the collapse?

12.16. So not long after the initial desaturation where the cpap machine was dislodged. I’m not 100% sure though why she was in that room anyway? Presumably nurses assigned to babies in room one are fully qualified and capable of caring for their individual assigned baby? I understand nurses coming to a crash call if they’re able and needed but generally… why is she there?

 

[MsBetsy]

I'd be interested to know why she took a blood gas at 2.16 prior to the collapse?

I wonder if it's standard procedure to check the blood gas during 'neo puffing' or to check it twice within 30 minutes.

 

[Legally Bland]

4:02pm

Further medication is administered to Child B during the night, with Letby again listed as a co-signer.

4:06pm

At 2.40am, the 'purple discolouration' had been 'almost resolved'. The cause was '??', and Child B had been 'stabilised at present'.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more while working as a Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk