I believe she was the one who had left the immediate area and was already typing on the computer.
UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #5
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Interesting to note the inconsistencies in terms of lethality supposedly administered. Why different modes of murder and if “death” was the supposed intention presumably LL would have changed her approach to ensure it was lethal. It was suggested Different quantities of air were administered, presumably if she meant to kill she would make increasingly certain measures to insure it in light of her failing to succeed in causing death. I doubt she would choose a method she would have learned is seemingly less fatal if she was trying to hide it. Moo.
It’s a strong evaluation of the evidence offered. One inconsistency is that some are said to be attacked multiple times if that’s the case then presumably chances of recovery diminish with every attack? And again why do some and not others recover and why attack some more than others ?
It’s a strong evaluation of the evidence offered. One inconsistency is that some are said to be attacked multiple times if that’s the case then presumably chances of recovery diminish with every attack? And again why do some and not others recover and why attack some more than others ?
She wasn't just "on the ward" she was the one at the cot
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I'm sure it was reported that they were preparing meds together on one occasion
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In one or I believe two maybe three? Of the instances, that’s inconsistent and explained more in line with the nurses sometimes doing something with a baby not assigned to them.
It sounds like you are describing trial and error, or perfecting her technique, as the prosecution alleges.
I think other methods were introduced, which caused bleeding from the mouth and swollen vocal chords, so as not to be detected, or possibly, that was the only option at the time.
I don't know that chances of recovery diminish after each attempt. That might depend on many factors, such as how long it took for doctors to assist. If alarms didn't go off, the amount of time they were in distress may have played a role. Also each child was unique. There's no way to know why some fought back harder and others succumbed.
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I might also assume that babies who were under her direct care would likely have a greater chance of dying as there is greater opportunity for her to administer fatal methods or repeatedly attack the same child without raising suspicion by malingering around other nurses babies. Also a consistent pattern would be LL working the night shifts when a successful Murder attempt was made.
I'm looking for reports - unfortunately that was the day when there were no live updates.
I've found this one -
"Giving evidence at Manchester Crown Court on Monday, a nursing colleague of Letby recalled she was preparing medicines when the monitor alarm sounded at Child B’s incubator.
The nurse – who cannot be identified for legal reasons – said Letby was the first to go to the cot and she called her for help.
Asked about Child B’s appearance, she said: “She looked very ill. She looked very like her brother did the night before. Pale, white, with this purple blotchy discolouration. It was all over her body.
“I just remember thinking ‘not again’ – to see his sister with the same appearance.”
Nurse thought ‘not again’ when baby suddenly collapsed, murder trial told
eta - another one -
"The following night, at about 12.30am on June 10, 2015, Lucy Letby, the long-time friend she had once mentored as a student, called her over to the incubator of Baby B.
'Lucy went over to her,' the nurse told the jury on the 11th day of Letby's trial at Manchester Crown Court.
'She'd been standing with me, checking the medication. Lucy said 'She's apnoeic, she's not breathing'. She asked me to go and help'."
Lucy Letby trial: Nurse thought 'Oh no, not again' when baby collapsed
I think @Tortoise post above shows quite clearly how she was the one with the child for cases ABC so far
Interestingly this is baby B where its likely the amount of air was less
Sorry can't do today's updates but I've found the live link
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 31
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
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Did you ever have a friend, or know somebody who got absolute pleasure over the worst of gossip or discussing other people's tragedies? That's what comes to mind for me in reading over the whole of the FB searches and texts and messages. And there is also a sense of soliciting sympathy from others, "Gosh you poor thing, your job is so hard" sort of thing. This is what came to mind for me:
Of course, this is all just my own feelings.
Of course, this is all just my own feelings.
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Yep looking for the “fors” and the “againsts”. At current there aren’t many “fors” but we will see how it goes. I also believe the prosecution’s opening contained all instances of LL being in direct proximity to the cases before, during and after the events. All suspect behaviour is noted and there isn’t much of it.
I will when more evidence is presented bring a list of all correlating evidence together and we will see how it all fits together or not. Not currently much to connect the dots so to speak.
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Those are interesting and the first one appears to have a lot more detail about the defence opening statement than the others do, unless I missed a lot.
One thing that I find very illuminating is the defence talking about the note; they say that it was her pouring her anguish out on paper due to the things which were being said about her. Also he says;
" She was "going through a grievance procedure" with the NHS at the time, the court hears, and knew what was being said about her before her arrest."
I wasn't aware that she had initiated a grievance procedure. I'm not sure which way it turns my opinion, to be honest. Do we take it as her innocence - I mean, if you're guilty of all this then perhaps your reaction would be to keep your head down and not draw attention to yourself which maybe indicates innocence? Or, if you're guilty, do you go all out and initiate the grievance procedure to make it look like you're innocent?
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Big difference between laughing at someone’s wife cheating and laughing at the suffering you inflicted by killing someone’s baby IMO. Ones a bonafide sadist the others not so much.
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With virtually nothing that strongly suggests numerous lies being told aside from one instance of supposedly falsified notes I’m more swayed towards honesty. Also the sheer scale of dishonesty necessary for her to be guilty isn’t likely IMO.
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What I also note from the recent link to the other site is that the defence do intend to call their own expert witnesses to refute the allegations of deliberately administered air embolisms.
There seems to be a lot more of what the defence has said in response to the prosecution allegations than is being reported in other places. Are we perhaps seeing some bias creeping into the MSM reporting, I wonder?
There seems to be a lot more of what the defence has said in response to the prosecution allegations than is being reported in other places. Are we perhaps seeing some bias creeping into the MSM reporting, I wonder?
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Interesting, taken from today’s court proceedings.
“The nurse adds she would have allocated Sophie Ellis to look after Child C as the designated nurse, with Melanie Taylor supervising, as she believed her to be competent.
The nurse said she believed another baby on the neonatal unit - the one Lucy Letby was designated to look after that night - should have had more care, including a septic screening, as the nurse believed that child was the most concerning to her that night”
If the child LL was looking after was “more concerning” it suggests compromised health as not being a factor in target acquisition assuming this child is not part of the charges?
“The nurse adds she would have allocated Sophie Ellis to look after Child C as the designated nurse, with Melanie Taylor supervising, as she believed her to be competent.
The nurse said she believed another baby on the neonatal unit - the one Lucy Letby was designated to look after that night - should have had more care, including a septic screening, as the nurse believed that child was the most concerning to her that night”
If the child LL was looking after was “more concerning” it suggests compromised health as not being a factor in target acquisition assuming this child is not part of the charges?
I think sometimes it takes a long time to see the whole picture.
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10:44am
There has been a delay to the start of today's trial.
11:23am
The current estimated time for the trial to resume today is 11.30am.
11:33am
The trial is now resuming. The judge, Mr Justice James Goss, apologises for the delayed start, which he said was due to a cancelled Northern Rail train.
11:34am
The first witness to give evidence to day is from a nurse, who cannot be named due to reporting restrictions, who explains she was a shift leader at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit in June 2015.
11:40am
The nurse explains to the court the types of different care that would be provided to babies arriving in the neonatal unit.
11:43am
The nurse is now being asked questions on Child C.
A reminder that none of the children listed in the charges can be identified, so a naming system of 'Baby/Child A' to 'Baby/Child Q' is being used by the press.
11:47am
The nurse said back in 2015, she was not sure she was the one allocating the designated nurses to the babies for that shift, as the allocation system was in the process of changing.
She said she remembers Sophie Ellis was the designated nurse for Child C that evening.
She says Sophie was a "very competent nurse", having come through the neonatal unit as a student nurse.
11:49am
The nurse remembers there being 'no clinical concerns' for Child C at the start of the shift.
11:50am
The nurse says she remembers Melanie Taylor also being assigned to room 1, with Sophie Ellis who was looking after Child C.
Melanie Talylor "would be there for support, for Sophie".
11:54am
The nurse also recalls Lucy Letby was on duty that night, looking after 'at least' one different baby, in room 3.
The nurse said she had 'concerns over respiratory distress' for that baby at the start of that night shift. He was 'grunting', and such symptoms had not been present prior to that.
The nurse asked Lucy Letby to increase the observations for that baby from two-hourly to one-hourly and call the registrar in.
12:00pm
The prosecution asks the nurse about Child C's collapse at 11.15pm.
"I do not remember where, but I was not in nursery room 1."
She recalls "a shout for help", but does not remember who called it.
She entered room 1 and saw Melanie Taylor and Sophie Ellis, and a Neopuff device was being administered.
She noticed Child C was not breathing and the heart rate was very low.
The Neopuff gave Child C chest movement, but he did not breathe himself.
Child C had a "mottled" skin appearance, the nurse recalled.
She remembers a crash call being put out, and recalls Lucy Letby being present, but does not recall when Letby entered the room.
She recalled Sophie Ellis "becoming emotionally upset" and the nurse said she advised her to step outside.
12:02pm
The nurse remembers resuscitation efforts were made, and Child C was baptised, and overseeing palliative care to make the baby boy more comfortable before he died.
12:05pm
The prosecution asks: "Whose responsibility is it to ensure the memory box is made and who takes care of it?"
The nurse: "The designated nurse at the time, if they're able."
The nurse said Melanie Taylor took over as designated nurse and "partly" arranged the memory box.
The nurse explains she asked Lucy Letby to focus back on a baby in nursery room 3, but Letby went into the family room "a few times". The nurse recalled asking Lucy Letby to leave the family to Melanie Taylor.
The nurse tells the court Letby did not have any designated duties to be in the family room, and told her "more than once" not to be in the family room.
12:05pm
Ben Myers KC, for the defence, is now asking the nurse questions.
12:12pm
Mr Myers asks the nurse how busy the unit had been between 2015 and 2016, and from a statement she had made, there were more babies arriving into the unit, and more "intensive unit" babies arriving.
Mr Myers said the number of intensive unit babies arriving seemed more than what Arrowe Park, a tertiary centre, had.
Mr Myers says the nurse, in her 2018 statement, said a ward manager was "fighting" for more nursing staff for the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit. "She still is."
"We sometimes weren't meeting staff guidelines for ratios."
The nurse replies that was the case across the nursing network.
The nurse agrees it was "not an ideal experience for staff."
Mr Myers: "And not an ideal experience for babies? There will be a danger of a knock-on effect."
The nurse replies: "Just because the amount of babies increased does not mean we were not compliant on any shift."
The nurse says she did not say staff were "struggling to cope", after being asked about her statement saying staff were missing breaks during "busy" shifts.
12:17pm
Mr Myers asks about Child C, asking if he was in a "potentially fragile condition". The nurse agrees.
Mr Myers says that due to his size and prematurity, there was a risk he could die. The nurse agrees.
12:21pm
The nurse says she could have changed the staffing allocation for designated nurses for that night shift, had she wanted to.
She says she does not know whether Sophie Ellis had looked after a baby as premature as Child C before, but had confidence in her as Melanie Taylor was there for support.
She says she does not recall if Lucy Letby had asked her to spend some time in that room 1.
12:30pm
Mr Myers asks about Child C's collapse.
The nurse says she was not in room 1 at the time, but saw Sophie Ellis and Melanie Taylor in that room, attempting to assist Child C's breathing with the Neopuff device when she arrived.
The nurse says an initial crash call was put out, followed by one for a consultant.
Mr Myers says the police statement refers to "I think Lucy Letby was in the room by now".
The nurse said she made the statement three years after the incident, and could not recall precisely when Letby had entered.
Mr Myers asks the nurse if she was the one to take an upset Sophie Ellis aside and get her to step down from duty for that time. The nurse agrees.
The nurse said Lucy Letby returned to looking after the other babies "after a number of askings" not to be in the family room, as the nurse and Melanie Taylor were looking after Child C and his parents following the collapse.
12:34pm
Simon Driver, for the prosecution, rises to ask the nurse more questions.
The nurse is asked if, given the busy shift, the quality of care was in any way "diminished" for Child C. The nurse says "no".
The nurse adds she would have allocated Sophie Ellis to look after Child C as the designated nurse, with Melanie Taylor supervising, as she believed her to be competent.
The nurse said she believed another baby on the neonatal unit - the one Lucy Letby was designated to look after that night - should have had more care, including a septic screening, as the nurse believed that child was the most concerning to her that night.
12:38pm
The nurse says, from her police interview, she "believed" Sophie Ellis and Melanie Taylor were in room 1 with the Neopuff device when she arrived.
The court hears the response from police was "ok", followed by the nurse saying: "But I...100 per cent couldn't tell you", which the prosecution say meant she was not 100 per cent sure.
12:49pm
The next witness to give evidence is Dr Katherine Davis, who in June 2015 was a paediatric registrar at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
The court hears she had been working night shifts for the night Child C collapsed, and the previous night.
12:52pm
Dr Davis says she does not recall the previous night shift, but from her nursing notes on the night shift of June 12-13 she recalls the observations for Child C at 9.20pm on June 12, 2015.
The notes include "suspected sepsis" and "jaundice" on a list of ongoing problems. The latter is, the court hears, "very common" in premature babies.
12:54pm
Dr Davis added that, at that point, there had been 'no desaturations' or 'bradys' (bradycardia).
Child C was 'NBM' (nil by mouth) due to "billious aspirates".
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
There has been a delay to the start of today's trial.
11:23am
The current estimated time for the trial to resume today is 11.30am.
11:33am
The trial is now resuming. The judge, Mr Justice James Goss, apologises for the delayed start, which he said was due to a cancelled Northern Rail train.
11:34am
The first witness to give evidence to day is from a nurse, who cannot be named due to reporting restrictions, who explains she was a shift leader at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit in June 2015.
11:40am
The nurse explains to the court the types of different care that would be provided to babies arriving in the neonatal unit.
11:43am
The nurse is now being asked questions on Child C.
A reminder that none of the children listed in the charges can be identified, so a naming system of 'Baby/Child A' to 'Baby/Child Q' is being used by the press.
11:47am
The nurse said back in 2015, she was not sure she was the one allocating the designated nurses to the babies for that shift, as the allocation system was in the process of changing.
She said she remembers Sophie Ellis was the designated nurse for Child C that evening.
She says Sophie was a "very competent nurse", having come through the neonatal unit as a student nurse.
11:49am
The nurse remembers there being 'no clinical concerns' for Child C at the start of the shift.
11:50am
The nurse says she remembers Melanie Taylor also being assigned to room 1, with Sophie Ellis who was looking after Child C.
Melanie Talylor "would be there for support, for Sophie".
11:54am
The nurse also recalls Lucy Letby was on duty that night, looking after 'at least' one different baby, in room 3.
The nurse said she had 'concerns over respiratory distress' for that baby at the start of that night shift. He was 'grunting', and such symptoms had not been present prior to that.
The nurse asked Lucy Letby to increase the observations for that baby from two-hourly to one-hourly and call the registrar in.
12:00pm
The prosecution asks the nurse about Child C's collapse at 11.15pm.
"I do not remember where, but I was not in nursery room 1."
She recalls "a shout for help", but does not remember who called it.
She entered room 1 and saw Melanie Taylor and Sophie Ellis, and a Neopuff device was being administered.
She noticed Child C was not breathing and the heart rate was very low.
The Neopuff gave Child C chest movement, but he did not breathe himself.
Child C had a "mottled" skin appearance, the nurse recalled.
She remembers a crash call being put out, and recalls Lucy Letby being present, but does not recall when Letby entered the room.
She recalled Sophie Ellis "becoming emotionally upset" and the nurse said she advised her to step outside.
12:02pm
The nurse remembers resuscitation efforts were made, and Child C was baptised, and overseeing palliative care to make the baby boy more comfortable before he died.
12:05pm
The prosecution asks: "Whose responsibility is it to ensure the memory box is made and who takes care of it?"
The nurse: "The designated nurse at the time, if they're able."
The nurse said Melanie Taylor took over as designated nurse and "partly" arranged the memory box.
The nurse explains she asked Lucy Letby to focus back on a baby in nursery room 3, but Letby went into the family room "a few times". The nurse recalled asking Lucy Letby to leave the family to Melanie Taylor.
The nurse tells the court Letby did not have any designated duties to be in the family room, and told her "more than once" not to be in the family room.
12:05pm
Ben Myers KC, for the defence, is now asking the nurse questions.
12:12pm
Mr Myers asks the nurse how busy the unit had been between 2015 and 2016, and from a statement she had made, there were more babies arriving into the unit, and more "intensive unit" babies arriving.
Mr Myers said the number of intensive unit babies arriving seemed more than what Arrowe Park, a tertiary centre, had.
Mr Myers says the nurse, in her 2018 statement, said a ward manager was "fighting" for more nursing staff for the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit. "She still is."
"We sometimes weren't meeting staff guidelines for ratios."
The nurse replies that was the case across the nursing network.
The nurse agrees it was "not an ideal experience for staff."
Mr Myers: "And not an ideal experience for babies? There will be a danger of a knock-on effect."
The nurse replies: "Just because the amount of babies increased does not mean we were not compliant on any shift."
The nurse says she did not say staff were "struggling to cope", after being asked about her statement saying staff were missing breaks during "busy" shifts.
12:17pm
Mr Myers asks about Child C, asking if he was in a "potentially fragile condition". The nurse agrees.
Mr Myers says that due to his size and prematurity, there was a risk he could die. The nurse agrees.
12:21pm
The nurse says she could have changed the staffing allocation for designated nurses for that night shift, had she wanted to.
She says she does not know whether Sophie Ellis had looked after a baby as premature as Child C before, but had confidence in her as Melanie Taylor was there for support.
She says she does not recall if Lucy Letby had asked her to spend some time in that room 1.
12:30pm
Mr Myers asks about Child C's collapse.
The nurse says she was not in room 1 at the time, but saw Sophie Ellis and Melanie Taylor in that room, attempting to assist Child C's breathing with the Neopuff device when she arrived.
The nurse says an initial crash call was put out, followed by one for a consultant.
Mr Myers says the police statement refers to "I think Lucy Letby was in the room by now".
The nurse said she made the statement three years after the incident, and could not recall precisely when Letby had entered.
Mr Myers asks the nurse if she was the one to take an upset Sophie Ellis aside and get her to step down from duty for that time. The nurse agrees.
The nurse said Lucy Letby returned to looking after the other babies "after a number of askings" not to be in the family room, as the nurse and Melanie Taylor were looking after Child C and his parents following the collapse.
12:34pm
Simon Driver, for the prosecution, rises to ask the nurse more questions.
The nurse is asked if, given the busy shift, the quality of care was in any way "diminished" for Child C. The nurse says "no".
The nurse adds she would have allocated Sophie Ellis to look after Child C as the designated nurse, with Melanie Taylor supervising, as she believed her to be competent.
The nurse said she believed another baby on the neonatal unit - the one Lucy Letby was designated to look after that night - should have had more care, including a septic screening, as the nurse believed that child was the most concerning to her that night.
12:38pm
The nurse says, from her police interview, she "believed" Sophie Ellis and Melanie Taylor were in room 1 with the Neopuff device when she arrived.
The court hears the response from police was "ok", followed by the nurse saying: "But I...100 per cent couldn't tell you", which the prosecution say meant she was not 100 per cent sure.
12:49pm
The next witness to give evidence is Dr Katherine Davis, who in June 2015 was a paediatric registrar at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
The court hears she had been working night shifts for the night Child C collapsed, and the previous night.
12:52pm
Dr Davis says she does not recall the previous night shift, but from her nursing notes on the night shift of June 12-13 she recalls the observations for Child C at 9.20pm on June 12, 2015.
The notes include "suspected sepsis" and "jaundice" on a list of ongoing problems. The latter is, the court hears, "very common" in premature babies.
12:54pm
Dr Davis added that, at that point, there had been 'no desaturations' or 'bradys' (bradycardia).
Child C was 'NBM' (nil by mouth) due to "billious aspirates".
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 31
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
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