He should be focusing on making it clear that LL couldn't have done what she's accused of - not on accusing a bereaved mother of exaggerating how awful her dying baby's cries were. The baby died, that's not in dispute, so lets not pretend the baby was happy and healthy at the time. It's not this poor mother on trial here.
UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #6
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He should be focusing on making it clear that LL couldn't have done what she's accused of - not on accusing a bereaved mother of exaggerating how awful her dying baby's cries were. The baby died, that's not in dispute, so lets not pretend the baby was happy and healthy at the time. It's not this poor mother on trial here.
LadyEdgeworth
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Also just a inane question because it changes nothing, who cares just how horrendous the screaming was or wasn't, doesn't change the fact that at 9pm there was a screaming baby with blood on it's face in a room where LL was the only other person and she was ignoring it, plus it's noted in the baby's notes. The jury aren't going to go ohhh the screaming was only a bit horrendous not THAT horrendous I guess that's that
Thank you for this, this surely is huge evidence. She has written in the notes she aspirated baby prior to a feed, and it was decided baby shouldn’t have the feed. The mother then shows up and baby is bleeding, presumably from whatever LL has done during this aspirate process. Mother has then called her husband as per phone records.
It’s backed up by both her notes (even though she’s omitted the bleeding her notes show she was caring for baby e at that moment in time), the mothers recollection and the phone records.
Problem is that the 9pm notes don’t say that, so the defence is saying there was a bit of crying at 9 to make it seem like there was nothing to note down? What about the blood then. Also why would the mum make up a story about a feeding tube. Or are they saying someone else told the mum about a feeding tube? Also what time was the registrar called? Or did LL never called the registrar? So many questions
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Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
Apologies, I meant it was omitted from the baby's notes. Which you're right why on earth would mum just make up this whole tale at 9pm, she wouldn't.
LadyEdgeworth
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12:09pm
The father of Child E and Child F is now giving evidence.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The father of Child E and Child F is now giving evidence.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
LadyEdgeworth
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12:14pm
He confirms the birth date for Child E and Child F.
Mr Johnson asks about the progress on their twins.
The father says he was "very happy" with the twins' progress before the phone call on August 3, they were doing "good".
He confirms he had gone home on the evening of August 3, and then received a phone call from his wife that night.
He tells the court the phone call he received from his wife at 9.11pm, wo was "upset and very worried" about the bleeding from the baby's mouth.
He said he was sure the medical staff knew what they were doing, and she was panicking over nothing.
The second phone call was split between the midwife and his wife. He was told: "Don't panic, but get over here now."
Mr Myers asks if the bleeding was referred to at the 10.52pm phone call, rather than 9.11pm. The father replies it was not; that was referred to in the 9.11pm phone call.
12:16pm
That completes the father's evidence.
Nicholas Johnson KC says the court will now go through the sequence of events, with intelligence analyst Claire Hocknell directing the jury through the electronic evidence bundle for Child E and Child F.
A reminder the jury have access to the evidence in this case on iPads, rather than the traditional paper bundles.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
He confirms the birth date for Child E and Child F.
Mr Johnson asks about the progress on their twins.
The father says he was "very happy" with the twins' progress before the phone call on August 3, they were doing "good".
He confirms he had gone home on the evening of August 3, and then received a phone call from his wife that night.
He tells the court the phone call he received from his wife at 9.11pm, wo was "upset and very worried" about the bleeding from the baby's mouth.
He said he was sure the medical staff knew what they were doing, and she was panicking over nothing.
The second phone call was split between the midwife and his wife. He was told: "Don't panic, but get over here now."
Mr Myers asks if the bleeding was referred to at the 10.52pm phone call, rather than 9.11pm. The father replies it was not; that was referred to in the 9.11pm phone call.
12:16pm
That completes the father's evidence.
Nicholas Johnson KC says the court will now go through the sequence of events, with intelligence analyst Claire Hocknell directing the jury through the electronic evidence bundle for Child E and Child F.
A reminder the jury have access to the evidence in this case on iPads, rather than the traditional paper bundles.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
It would actually work more in LL defence to agree this whole incident, because potentially the blood could be down to the tube while trying to aspirate him or similar? It gives her a legitimate reason to have been doing anything with him and to me, sounds a lot like something that could be done accidentally and not necessarily a big deal.Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
Apologies, I meant it was omitted from the baby's notes. Which you're right why on earth would mum just make up this whole tale at 9pm, she wouldn't.
Is this the baby they later struggled to intubate because of a swollen throat?
Are the defence going to try and say someone else had time during the 9pm notes and the 10.52pm call to hurt baby E? Surely that would be the only reason to try and discredit the 9pm interaction, to take away that opportunity of harm.
So the father confirms the bleeding was mentioned on the 9.11 phone call and mother was very upset and worried.
See the defence is also denying that LL said the registrar was coming soon or that she called them.
The defence have to minimise this as LL didn't even note down the bleed or call a registrar about it.
See the defence is also denying that LL said the registrar was coming soon or that she called them.
The defence have to minimise this as LL didn't even note down the bleed or call a registrar about it.
Reminder of (part) prosecution opening - (BBM)
In police interview, Letby said she could remember Child E and he was "stable" at the time of the handover, with nothing of concern "before the large bile aspirate".
She said she and another member of staff had disposed of the aspirate and the advice was to omit the feed.
She said Child E's abdomen was becoming fuller and there was a purple discolouration, so had asked a doctor to review Child E.
She said she had got blood from the NG tube.
She was asked about the 10pm note and said if there had been any blood prior to the 9pm feed, "she would have noted it".
She said it was after 9pm that the SHO had reviewed Child E but could not recall if it was face-to-face or over the phone.
She said she could remember the mum leaving after 'the 10pm visit'.
In a June 2019 interview, she was pressed over a conversation with the SHO.
She said she had no independent memory of it.
She said she could not remember the mum coming into the room at 9pm with milk, nor Child E being upset, with blood coming from the mouth.
She said she would not have told the mum to go back upstairs.
"We have a stark contrast between what the mum says and what Lucy Letby says," Mr Johnson tells the court.
"You know he was due to be fed...breastmilk. You know, we say, that is why [the mum] was there.
"This has been wiped out of the records, by Lucy Letby, because she knows the consequences of [the mum] being right about this."
12:54pm
In a November 2020 interview, Letby is asked why she had sent a text referring to Child E had queried whether he had Down Syndrome.
She said she could not remember whether there had ever been any mention of Downs in the medical notes.
The prosecution say Lucy Letby "took an unusual interest" in the family of Child E. She did social media searches on the parents two days after Child E’s death, and on August 23, September 14, October 5, November 5, December 7, and even on December 25.
The prosecution say there were further searches in January 2016.
Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders
In police interview, Letby said she could remember Child E and he was "stable" at the time of the handover, with nothing of concern "before the large bile aspirate".
She said she and another member of staff had disposed of the aspirate and the advice was to omit the feed.
She said Child E's abdomen was becoming fuller and there was a purple discolouration, so had asked a doctor to review Child E.
She said she had got blood from the NG tube.
She was asked about the 10pm note and said if there had been any blood prior to the 9pm feed, "she would have noted it".
She said it was after 9pm that the SHO had reviewed Child E but could not recall if it was face-to-face or over the phone.
She said she could remember the mum leaving after 'the 10pm visit'.
In a June 2019 interview, she was pressed over a conversation with the SHO.
She said she had no independent memory of it.
She said she could not remember the mum coming into the room at 9pm with milk, nor Child E being upset, with blood coming from the mouth.
She said she would not have told the mum to go back upstairs.
"We have a stark contrast between what the mum says and what Lucy Letby says," Mr Johnson tells the court.
"You know he was due to be fed...breastmilk. You know, we say, that is why [the mum] was there.
"This has been wiped out of the records, by Lucy Letby, because she knows the consequences of [the mum] being right about this."
12:54pm
In a November 2020 interview, Letby is asked why she had sent a text referring to Child E had queried whether he had Down Syndrome.
She said she could not remember whether there had ever been any mention of Downs in the medical notes.
The prosecution say Lucy Letby "took an unusual interest" in the family of Child E. She did social media searches on the parents two days after Child E’s death, and on August 23, September 14, October 5, November 5, December 7, and even on December 25.
The prosecution say there were further searches in January 2016.
Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders
Thank you tortoise. I had just gone back and was reading this! I completely forgot the mention of the text and Down syndrome! Or that the registrar doesn’t remember signing off omitting a feed or seeing baby e until the collapse.
LadyEdgeworth
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12:19pm
The first evidence refers to text messages sent to and from Lucy Letby's phone on July 27, asking if Letby, on her time off, will be back in time for a debrief regarding the death of Child A. Letby says she will be looking to get back in time for that.
12:21pm
Child E was 1.327kg at birth (2lb 14oz), with APGAR scores of 7/10 at 1 minute and 9/10 at five minutes (APGAR scores recording how well a baby is presenting in the minutes after birth).
Clinical notes refer to the admission of the twins to the neonatal unit.
12:27pm
The debrief for Child A takes place on July 30, with Letby having confirmed her attendance in a text message prior.
Letby is then the designated nurse for Child F on the night shift of August 1 and August 2. Melanie Taylor was the designated nurse for Child E on the night of August 2.
Melanie Taylor's notes record for Child E for that night shift: "Self ventilating in 24% oxygen, resps 6-70, minimal recession evident."
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The first evidence refers to text messages sent to and from Lucy Letby's phone on July 27, asking if Letby, on her time off, will be back in time for a debrief regarding the death of Child A. Letby says she will be looking to get back in time for that.
12:21pm
Child E was 1.327kg at birth (2lb 14oz), with APGAR scores of 7/10 at 1 minute and 9/10 at five minutes (APGAR scores recording how well a baby is presenting in the minutes after birth).
Clinical notes refer to the admission of the twins to the neonatal unit.
12:27pm
The debrief for Child A takes place on July 30, with Letby having confirmed her attendance in a text message prior.
Letby is then the designated nurse for Child F on the night shift of August 1 and August 2. Melanie Taylor was the designated nurse for Child E on the night of August 2.
Melanie Taylor's notes record for Child E for that night shift: "Self ventilating in 24% oxygen, resps 6-70, minimal recession evident."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
But the fact the baby then brought up a lot of blood before he sadly died suggests that the 9pm bleed did in fact happen. In fact cause of death was speculated to be air embolism alone with acute bleeding.
LadyEdgeworth
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I'm away for the next 30 minutes if anyone would like to take over the live reporting if there's anything further, or I'll catch it up when I am back
Can anyone medical confirm 2 questions please?
1) would a ng tube cause bleeding?
2) would pre feed aspirating be done from the top of the ng tube, so the process wouldn't even touch the baby's face/throat?
Wow she did a lot of searches on this couple. And speculated the baby had DS? Had anyone else at all suggested this or all just her? She is, IMO, a very awkward person. I'm beginning to agree with that random ex-boyfriend of a friend. JMO.
If so their point is completely moot. The Father confirms the blood was mentioned on the 9.11 phone call and this is backed up by phone records.
11:19pm
The first evidence refers to text messages sent to and from Lucy Letby's phone on July 27, asking if Letby, on her time off, will be back in time for a debrief regarding the death of Child A. Letby says she will be looking to get back in time for that.
11:21pm
Child E was 1.327kg at birth (2lb 14oz), with APGAR scores of 7/10 at 1 minute and 9/10 at five minutes (APGAR scores recording how well a baby is presenting in the minutes after birth).
Clinical notes refer to the admission of the twins to the neonatal unit.
11:27pm
The debrief for Child A takes place on July 30, with Letby having confirmed her attendance in a text message prior.
Letby is then the designated nurse for Child F on the night shift of August 1 and August 2. Melanie Taylor was the designated nurse for Child E on the night of August 2.
Melanie Taylor's notes record for Child E for that night shift: "Self ventilating in 24% oxygen, resps 6-70, minimal recession evident."
11:31pm
A message sent from nursing colleague Jennifer Jones-Key to Lucy Letby at 10.34pm on August 2 says: "Hope work ok".
Letby replies: "...yeah it's fine, bit too Q word really."
The reply: "Don't complain as Wed and Thurs horrible lol! It will pick up again."
11:37pm
The court is shown further nursing notes by Melanie Taylor recording two Brady desats (slow heart rate) at the early hours of August 3, requiring 'gentle stimulation' to correct. One of the Bradys is recorded as lasting 45 seconds.
Child E's tummy was 'soft, not distended', had satisfactory blood gas readings and heart/respiratory rate, and fluids were being administered. The bowels were not yet opened.
11:40pm
Melanie Taylor's notes at the end of the night shift said 'feeds tolerated, tummy remains soft'.
A family communication note is also made by the nurse.
"Mum and dad visiting at start of shift, mum has been 2x with [expressed breast milk] overnight."
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The first evidence refers to text messages sent to and from Lucy Letby's phone on July 27, asking if Letby, on her time off, will be back in time for a debrief regarding the death of Child A. Letby says she will be looking to get back in time for that.
11:21pm
Child E was 1.327kg at birth (2lb 14oz), with APGAR scores of 7/10 at 1 minute and 9/10 at five minutes (APGAR scores recording how well a baby is presenting in the minutes after birth).
Clinical notes refer to the admission of the twins to the neonatal unit.
11:27pm
The debrief for Child A takes place on July 30, with Letby having confirmed her attendance in a text message prior.
Letby is then the designated nurse for Child F on the night shift of August 1 and August 2. Melanie Taylor was the designated nurse for Child E on the night of August 2.
Melanie Taylor's notes record for Child E for that night shift: "Self ventilating in 24% oxygen, resps 6-70, minimal recession evident."
11:31pm
A message sent from nursing colleague Jennifer Jones-Key to Lucy Letby at 10.34pm on August 2 says: "Hope work ok".
Letby replies: "...yeah it's fine, bit too Q word really."
The reply: "Don't complain as Wed and Thurs horrible lol! It will pick up again."
11:37pm
The court is shown further nursing notes by Melanie Taylor recording two Brady desats (slow heart rate) at the early hours of August 3, requiring 'gentle stimulation' to correct. One of the Bradys is recorded as lasting 45 seconds.
Child E's tummy was 'soft, not distended', had satisfactory blood gas readings and heart/respiratory rate, and fluids were being administered. The bowels were not yet opened.
11:40pm
Melanie Taylor's notes at the end of the night shift said 'feeds tolerated, tummy remains soft'.
A family communication note is also made by the nurse.
"Mum and dad visiting at start of shift, mum has been 2x with [expressed breast milk] overnight."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
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