UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #7

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  • #421
Updated draft timeline for baby F following today's evidence

29 Jul 2015, Wednesday

Identical twin boys E and F born, prematurely, at 29 weeks, by C-Section. They shared a placenta which can increase the risks for NEC. (consultant’s testimony) Dr Christopher Wood (SHO) was present at the births. Dr Gail Beech was also present at the births and looked after E. Her first involvement with F was on the day shift on 4 Aug 2015.

E weighed 2lb 14oz (1.327kg). He was given oxygen then weaned to air and transferred to Room 1. He was at risk of NEC and started on antibiotics, IV fluids and caffeine. He had a nasogastric tube inserted.


F was marginally younger, and he required some resuscitation at birth. His birth weight was 3lb 2oz (1.434kg). He was later intubated, ventilated and given medicine to help his lungs.


30 Jul 2015, Thursday

Mother says she was able to visit the twins in the neonatal unit, from upstairs in the post-natal wards. She said that would take about 5-10 minutes to get from one place to the other, due to having had a C-section, which made the journey time longer. She said she was able to cuddle E as he wasn't on CPAP, while F was on CPAP.


31 Jul 2015, Friday

A high blood sugar reading was recorded and F was prescribed a tiny dose of insulin to correct it.
His breathing tube was removed and he was given breathing support.


1 Aug 2015, Saturday

Mother said E was progressing better, of the two twins, over July 30-31, but both were doing "really well" by August 1. She was keen to get home and was keen to transport both babies to a hospital closer to home, and was waiting for two ambulances to be provided. She said she and her partner were under the impression both babies were well enough to travel. By that stage, she had had skin-to-skin contact with both twins, and both were managing "fine". "We were never informed about anything to say they weren't fine."

8pm night shiftLL was designated nurse for F.


2 Aug 2015, Sunday


By August 2, mother says they were still waiting for transport. She said on that day, the twins were both out of their incubators by this stage. [E] was breathing "easily" and [F] was "great".

8pm night shiftLL was designated nurse for F. Melanie Taylor was designated nurse for E.

10.34pmLL’s texts with nursing colleague:
JJ-K: "Hope work ok".
LL: "...yeah it's fine, bit too Q word really."
JJ-K: "Don't complain as Wed and Thurs horrible lol! It will pick up again."



3 Aug 2015, Monday

Mother says by August 3 the twins were "great - doing really well". "We were absolutely thrilled that both boys were doing so well and we couldn't have asked for any more than that. They were both progressing."

8am -8pm day-shift - “unnamed nurse” [in court testimony] was the designated nurse for E & F.

7.30-8pm night shift – LL is designated nurse for twins E & F
in room 1. Nurse Caroline Oakley was the shift-leader. There were 3 babies in room 2, one baby in room 3, and four babies in room 4. There is also a baby in the transitional care unit.

Just prior to 9pmAllegation against LL of intentionally inflicting injury to baby E's upper gastrointestinal tract, with bleeding contributing to his death

9.13pm
– LL made a note in twin F’s records. (opening statement)

Just prior to 11.40pm - Allegation against LL of intentionally injecting air into baby E, causing his collapse and death


4 Aug 2015, Tuesday

1.40am – Baby E's time of death was recorded as 1.40am.


8am
End of LL’s night shift

Day shift
- Registrar Dr Gail Beech was on duty. A ‘ward round-up’ filled in in preparation for Wednesday’s weekly consultant ‘grand round’ ward round-up is presented to the court. The list of problems, readings and observations for each child is noted, concluding with a management plan. The note recorded that E had died aged 6 days. Dr B explains F was on Optiflow with 'suspected sepsis' noted, a raised urea and creatinine, 'jaundice' but not on phototherapy at this stage. F was also 'establishing feeds' and awaiting genetics test for Down's, but F was not showing any clinical features, and 'hyperglycaemia - resolved'. Prosecutor says the genetic test results were received on August 7. Dr B said they confirmed there wasn't a presence of Down's. Dr B confirms she was satisfied the hyperglycaemia [high blood sugar] level had been resolved. Dr B said a standard list of medication was prescribed. The Optiflow reading was not supplemented with oxygen - F had been 'in air since 3.30am'. Oxygen saturation levels were 92-97%, which were 'satisfactory'. Dr B says there 'weren't any concerns' on the cardiovascular system. F weighed 1.296kg [2lb 13oz], from a birth weight of 1.434kg [3lb 2oz] - Dr B said this was not a concern as babies, particularly neonates, lose weight in the first days following birth. Dr B confirms F was receiving nutrition via a TPN bag. F was 'active, moving all 4 limbs'. F was 'active and pink', with a 'clear' chest, no increased rate of breathing. A note saying F required further tests on 'mouth and palate', and 'eyes', as part of a 'top to toe examination'. The management plan says, for F, 'wean Optiflow flow when in air.' 'Complete 7 days of antibiotics'. "Continue increasing feeds as tolerated'. 'Chase genetics [for results]'. 'Complete examination and baby check later (parents arrived, upset about twin 1)'. Dr B is now asked to look at a chart for a prescription for Babiven, which she has dated, but does not recall writing it. She had signed for a rate of lipid, but that was zero as it wasn't required. Babiven is a "standard bag" which would be given at a bespoke rate for F. Dr B says the second prescription, with different Babiven levels and a new lipid level, was made as F had been made 'nil by mouth' and the increased levels were so F could acquire the same level of nutrients in his body. Dr B is asked if there was anything notable from previous clinical records that she could recall in respect of F. She says there was not. X-exam – Dr B clarifies she was waiting for genetic test results for F for the presence of Down's Syndrome. Those results came back on August 7, with no evidence of Down's Syndrome. Defence asks if a further, microarray genetics test can be conducted to show for further potential genetic disorders; Dr B confirms that is the case. Defence says on August 4, the fluids were being administered via TPN, and milk coming in via the NGT [nasogastric tube], with no lipid required as F was getting milk in. Defence asks about the management plan - 'continue increasing feeds as tolerated'. He then refers to the two August 4 prescriptions of fluids [the first being crossed out], and if Dr B had completed the figures; Dr B confirms that was the case, and that she signed for them. At the first one, there is no component of lipid. Dr B says she would have written these figures after the ward round, so the TPN could be made up. Dr B says it would take some time from prescribing the TPN bag to it then being administered. Defence asks for clarity on how the second prescription comes to be made, with a different rate of administration of Babiven and a new lipid and new 10% dextrose doses; Dr B confirms she did not prescribe these additional nutritions, as they are signed by a colleague. The total nutrition administration is now 165ml and the rate is slightly increased from the first, crossed-out prescription of total 150ml fluid. Dr B says the additional nutrition would come on separate infusions. That concludes Dr B's evidence. (Dr Beech’s evidence)

8.21am - LL noted: 'Parents resident on unit overnight. Wish to be left alone.' (electronic evidence)

8.58amLL’s texts

Colleague who can’t be named: "You ok? Just heard about baby [E]. Did you have him? Sending hugs xx"
LL: "News travels fast - who told you? Yeah I had them both, was horrible."
Colleague responded that someone at the handover 'told me just now'. 'Had he been getting poorly or was it sudden?' ‘Poor you. You’re having a 🤬🤬🤬🤬 time of it.”
LL: E had a 'massive gastrointestinal haemorrhage'.
Colleague: ‘Damn. He’d always struggled feeding. I just feel for his parents and you. You’ve had really tough times recently.’
LL: “E was 'IUGR [Intrauterine growth restriction] and REDF [Reversal of umbilical artery end-diastolic flow]'. Guess he was very high risk. Was just awful, he was bleeding from everywhere during resus. Got him back but gas incompatible. Parents completely distraught. I feel numb.”
(source Mail Podcast)

4pmBaby F’s bespoke TPN bag was delivered to the neonatal unit. It had to be used within 48 hours of 11.30pm on the 4th. (opening speech)

Just before 5pm - a nursing note records family communication in which F's parents wish to transfer care to another hospital in the North West, but transport was unavailable due to an emergency. The note adds 'sincere apologies given to parents'.

7.30-8pm - LL night shift starts. Baby F had been moved to room 2. LL was not baby F’s designated nurse. LL was designated a single baby that night, also in room 2. Belinda Simcock was the shift leader. There were 7 babies in the unit that night, and 5 nurses working. Room 3 – 1 baby. Room 4 – twins. Two other babies whose location hasn’t been established from the records. (electronic evidence Tues 22/11/2022)

7.55pm LL’s texts
Jennifer Jones-Key: "Hey how's you?"
8.01pm -
LL: "Not so good, we lost [E] overnight."
8.02pm
-
JJ-K: "That’s sad. ‘We’re on a terrible run at the moment. Were you in 1? x"
8.02pm
LL: "Yes. I had him and baby [F] x"

JJ-K: "That’s not good, you need a break from it being on your shift. x"
LL: "It's the luck of the drawer (sic) isn’t it, unfortunately. Only three trained, so I ended up having both, whereas just baby F the other shifts."
JJ-K: "You seem to be having some very bad luck though."
LL: "Not a lot I can do really. He had massive haemorrhage could have happened to any baby. x"
JJ-K: "No, you did everything you could, I know it can happen to any baby, very scary", I have seen one, my baby did it in nursery 3 once, horrible.”
LL: "Wasn’t nice. This was abdominal. I’ve only seen pulmonary before.”
JJ-K: Hope your be ok. Chin up”
LL: I’m ok. Went to [colleague] for a chat earlier on and with nice people tonight.
JJ-K: Hope your night goes ok.”
(Mail podcast and Chester Standard)

9-10pm: The court is shown medication is being administered to F at this time, between 9-10pm.

Dr Wood’s last night shift with the CoCH as he’d come to the end of his 4-month training placement. (Dr Wood's testimony for E)

11.32pm - A blood gas result shows a blood glucose level of 5.5. (electronic evidence)


5 August 2015, Wednesday

[12.10amIn police interview in July 2018, LL confirmed signing for a lipid syringe at 12.10am. The prosecution say she should have had someone to co-sign for it. "She accepted that the signature tended to suggest she had administered it." "Interestingly, at the end of this part of the interview she asked whether the police had access to the TPN bag that she had connected," Mr Johnson added. (prosecution opening speech)]

12.25am - A 48-hour bag prescription of nutrition is signed, solely, by LL, recording it ending at 12.25am on August 5. (electronic evidence)

12.25am - Two records are shown for the next administration, the first being crossed out. The second nutrition bag has a higher level of babiven, along with quantities of lipid and 10% dextrose that weren't on the first, crossed out, administration. The babiven is stated to start at 12.25am, and the lipid administration is signed to begin at 3am. LL is a co-signer for both the babiven prescriptions, but not the lipid administration. The 12.25am prescription for the TPN bag starts to be administered at 12.25am. F then suffered a deterioration, the court hears. (electronic evidence)
Allegation against LL of intentional insulin poisoning of F

[In police interview in July 2018 LL confirmed her signature on the TPN form. She had no recollection of having had involvement with administering the TPN bag contents to F, but confirmed giving F glucose injections and taking observations. (prosecution opening speech) The defence say F's TPN bag was put up by LL and hours later there were blood sugar problems. That bag was replaced, in the absence of LL, but the problems continued. The sample taken [at 5.56pm] came from "the second bag", the defence say. (defence opening speech)]

1am - A fluid chart shows in the 'NGT aspirate/vomit' column, four '+' signs. The nursing note, written retrospectively and timed for 1am, records: "large milky vomit. Heart rate increased to 200-210. [respiration rate] increased to 65-80. [Oxygen saturation levels] >96%. Became quieter than usual. Abdomen soft and not distended. Slightly jaundiced in appearance but no loss of colour. Dr Harkness R/V." (electronic evidence)

1.15am - An observation chart for F: The heart rate is shown having increased, along with the respiration rate, at this time, into the 'yellow area', which the court has previously heard is something medical staff would note and raise concerns if necessary. Prosecutor Nicholas Johnson KC says the relevant nurse will be asked to give further details on this in due course. (electronic evidence)

1.54am – A blood gas reading has F’s blood glucose level as 0.8. (electronic evidence)

2.05am – Medication of 10% dextrose is administered intraveneously, along with various other medications. (electronic evidence)

2.15am - 2.17am – Blood tests are ordered for F by doctors at 2.15am and 2.17am. (electronic evidence)

2.33-2.45am – Blood tests are collected between 2.33am and 2.45am. (electronic evidence)

2.55am - F's blood glucose level is recorded as 2.3. This is still "below where it should safely have been", Mr Johnson tells the court. (electronic evidence)

3am – (see entry at 12.25am) - the lipid administration is signed to begin at 3am.

3.10am - The lipid prescription is administered. (electronic evidence)

3.35am - 0.9% saline administered (electronic evidence)

3.50am - A 10% dextrose infusion is recorded (electronic evidence)

4.02am - F's blood glucose reading is 1.9. (electronic evidence)

4.25am – Further saline and 10% dextrose medications are administered (electronic evidence)

5am – F’s blood glucose level is recorded as 2.9 (electronic evidence)

7.30 -8am – The shift handover is carried out at 7.30am (electronic evidence)

8amday shift nurse Shelley Tomlins recorded F’s blood glucose level as 1.7. Prosecutor Mr Johnson says this is a "dangerously low level". (electronic evidence)


8amLL’s night shift ended.

Prior to 10am
LL has been messaging the night-shift designated nurse for F;
LL: "Did you hear what [F]'s sugar was at 8[am]?"
Nurse: "No?"
LL: "1.8"
Nurse: "[S***]!!!!", adding she felt "awful" for her care of F that night.
LL: "Something isn't right if he is dropping like that," adding that F's heel has to be taken into consideration [as blood gas tests are taken via heel pricks, and cannot be done too regularly].
Nurse: "Exactly, he had so much handling. No something not right. Heart rate and sugars."
LL: "Dr Gibbs came so hopefully they will get him sorted. "He is a worry [though]."
Nurse: "Hpe so. He is a worry."
LL: "Hope you sleep well...let me know how [F] is tonight please."
Nurse: "I will hun".

(electronic evidence)

[In police interview LL was asked about the text, and she said she must have looked on his chart. (opening speech)]


10am – Dr Ogden records a blood glucose level for F of '1.3'. (electronic evidence)

Time? –A doctor instructed the nursing staff to stop the TPN via the long line, provide dextrose, and move the TPN to a peripheral line while a new long line was put in. (opening speech, Chester Standard)

Morning (time? 11am?) – Further medication administrations are made throughout the morning. A new long line is also inserted at this time. (electronic evidence)

11am – All fluids were interrupted while a new long-line was put in. (opening speech)

11.46am – Nurse Shelley Tomlins recorded a blood glucose reading of 1.4. (electronic evidence)

[
NoonA TPN bag was re-fitted to F. This was either the same bag that was interrupted at 11am, which LL had signed for, or a stock bag from the fridge. (opening speech)]

12 midday - F's blood glucose level is recorded by a doctor as 2.4. (electronic evidence)

2pm - F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 1.9 (electronic evidence)

3.01pm - F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 1.3 (electronic evidence)

c.3pm - 10% dextrose solution is administered. (electronic evidence & Dr Beech’s testimony)

4pm - The blood glucose level is still "very low", the court hears, at 1.9 (electronic evidence)

4pm - 10% dextrose solution is administered. (Dr Beech’s testimony)

[
4pm – A new bespoke TPN was delivered to the unit for F. (opening speech)]

4pm - At 4pm, LL’s phone receives an invitation from an estate agency firm confirming a viewing for a property in Chester, near the hospital. This home would be the address where LL stayed until her 2018 arrest. (electronic evidence) The court heard the defendant had a house-viewing appointment the following day (6 Aug). (source Independent)

5.40pm – Dr Beech’s note at 5.40pm on August 5 documented 'asked to prescribe 150ml/kg/day 15% dextrose over 24hr at handover with 5ml/kg/day in it. "Also to stop TPN, check urinary [sodium], cortisol and insulin." Dr B says she cannot remember if F had been prescribed additional dextrose doses. She says the 15% dextrose - a "high amount" - would normally be due to low blood sugar levels. An intensive care chart is shown to the court, showing blood sugar levels which are "all low". "2.9 [the 5am reading] isn't bad for a neonate - anything less than 2.6 is considered low." Readings of 1.8 and 1.9 are shown for much of the day, up to 6pm. 10% dextrose solutions are administered at 3pm and 4pm. (Dr Beech’s testimony)

5.56pm – F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 1.3 at 5.56pm. A blood test is recorded for insulin to the Royal Liverpool Hospital at 5.56pm. The court hears those results did not come back for a week. (electronic evidence). A blood test is recorded at 5.56pm, sent to a laboratory, with 'relevant clinical details: preterm neonate, hypoglycaemia, on 10% dextrose'. The blood glucose levels recorded are 1.3. The 'lab sample' "tends to be more accurate" than one on a blood gas machine, Dr B tells the court. The cortisol reading is 364, which is within the range of 155 to 607. The insulin reading is 4,657. The insulin c-pep reading is less than 169. Dr B says the insulin reading is "very high" - while there is no 'normal upper limit', that reading could be considered high, the court hears. The insulin c-pep reading is the lowest reading the machine can record. The two readings [insulin and insulin c-pep] are "expected to be similar," Dr B tells the court. (Dr Beech’s testimony)

[
5.56pm – F's blood sample at 5.56pm had a very low glucose level, and after he was taken off the TPN and replaced with dextrose, his blood glucose levels returned to normal by 7.30pm. He had no further episodes of hypoglycaemia. "These episodes were sufficiently concerning" that medical staff checked F's blood plasma level. The 5.56pm sample recorded a "very high insulin measurement of 4,657". F's hormone level of C-peptide was very low - less than 169. "That, we say, means that somebody gave F synthetic insulin - somebody poisoned him." "All experienced medical and nursing members of staff would know the dangers of introducing insulin into any individual whose glucose values were within the normal range and would know that extreme hypoglycaemia, over a prolonged period of time, carries life threatening risks. "No other baby on the neonatal unit was prescribed insulin at the time." In a June 2019 police interview, LL agreed with the idea that insulin would not be administered accidentally. (prosecution opening speech)]

6pm - F's blood glucose level is recorded as 1.9 at 6pm. (electronic evidence)

6pm LL’s texts to a colleague Minna Lappalainen:
LL: "Hi! Are you going to salsa tonite?"
Coll: "Should do really as I haven't been for ages. Meet at TF 2020?”
LL: 'ok' emoji. LL adds: "Need to try and find some sort of nites energy", before clarifying "post nites"
Coll: “Don’t have to stay late.”
LL: "Hasta luego".

(electronic evidence)

6.43pm –A urine sample sent at 6.43pm had 'no unusual readings', but Dr B tells the court she cannot think, off the top of her head, how to interpret those results recorded. (Dr Beech’s testimony)

7pm – A chart showing a 7pm prescription of 15% dextrose, with sodium chloride, is administered intraveneously. Dr B has signed that. (Dr Beech’s testimony)

7pm - A nursing note records there was a change from the TPN/lipid and 10% dextrose administration to 'just 15% dextrose with sodium chloride added'. The new fluids were commenced at 7pm. (electronic evidence)

8pm – night shift – The designated nurse for the previous night shift returns to care for F on the night shift for August 5-6.

Texts:
She messaged LL: "He is a bit more stable, heart rate 160-170." (The long line had "tissued" and F's thigh was "swollen". It was thought the tissued long line "may be" the cause of the hypoglycemia.)
Colleague: "Changed long line but sugars still 1.9 all afternoon. Seems like long line tissued was not cause of sugar problem, doing various tests to try to find answers”
LL: "Oh dear, thanks for letting me know."
Nurse: "He’s defo better tho. Looks well, handling fine."
LL: "Good."

(electronic evidence)

9.17pm - F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 4.1. (electronic evidence)

11.58pmLL’s text to same colleague (designated nurse)
LL: "Wonder if he has an endocrine problem then. Hope they can get to bottom of it. "On way home from salsa with Minna. Feel better now I’ve been out."
Colleague: "Good, glad you feel better. Maybe re endocrine. Maybe just prematurity."
LL: "How are parents?"
Colleague: "OK. Tired. They've just gone to bed."
LL: "Glad they feel able to leave him."
Colleague: "Yes. they know we'll get them so good they trust us."
LL: Yes.
?: "Hope you have a good night."

(electronic evidence)


6 August 2015, Thursday

1.30am
- F's blood glucose levels rose to 9.9 (electronic evidence)

2am - a repeat blood glucose 9.9 reading. (electronic evidence)

7.58pm - LL did Facebook searches on the mother of E&F, as well as on August 23, September 14, September 21st, November 5, December 7, 11.26pm on December 25 and twice in January 2016. The last search was January 10th 2016. She searched the father of E&F on Facebook at 1.17am on October 5 2015. (opening speech and electronic evidence)


7 August 2015, Friday (about, a few days after giving E’s parents a memory box)

LL gave the mother a photograph of [F] 'holding' E's teddy. The mother had just made one of her daily visits to the hospital's chapel of rest. 'Lucy Letby told me 'I got this picture. I thought it was so amazing I took a picture for you'. She was suggesting F had rolled over and cuddled the bear'.



9 August 2015, Sunday

10.17pm
LL’s texts
LL texted the designated nurse of F on the night shift of the insulin allegation: I said goodbye to [E&F’s parents] as [F] might go tomorrow. They both cried and hugged me saying they will never be able to thank me for the love and care I gave to [E] and for the precious memories I’ve given them. It’s heartbreaking’
Coll: 'It’s heart-breaking, but you’ve done your job to the highest standard with compassion and professionalism. 'When we can’t save a baby we can try to make sure that the loss of their child is the one regret the parents have. It sounds like that’s exactly what you have done. You should feel very proud of yourself esp as you’ve done so well in such tough heartbreaking circumstances. Xx’
LL: 'I just feel sad that they’re thanking me when they have lost him and for something that any of us would have done. But it’s really nice to know that I got it right for them. That’s all I want.'
Coll: ‘It has been tough. You’ve handled it all really well. They know everything possible was done and that no-one gave up on E till it was in his best interest. As a parent you want the best for your child and sometimes that isn’t what you’d choose. Doesn’t mean that your [sic] not grateful to those that helped your child and you tho.’
LL: ‘Thank you xx
(electronic evidence)


12 Nov 2015LL’s texts
8.32pm
Another colleague texted LL: E&F’s parents brought a gorgeous huge hamper in today. Felt awful as couldn’t remember who they were till opened the card. Was very nice of them though n F looks 'fab x'.
LL: 'Oh gosh, did they, awe wish I could have seen them. That’ll stay with me forever. Lovely family x'.
(electronic evidence)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attempted Murder charge baby F – by alleged insulin poisoning

Prosecution Opening speech – Chester Standard Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders
Prosecution Opening speech – ITV Who are the children alleged to have been murdered by Lucy Letby? | ITV News
Defence opening speech - Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement
Dr Wood (SHO)’s testimony – Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 15
Mother’s testimony for baby E – Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
Unnamed nurse’s testimony (day shift 3 Aug) – Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 15
Electronic evidence – Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
Supplementary text details Daily Mail Colleagues of Lucy Letby told her she was 'terrible run of bad luck'
Electronic evidence 22 Nov 2022 - Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 22
Dr Gail Beech’s evidence Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 22
Round up 22/11 2022 Independent - Accused nurse went salsa dancing the night after ‘murder bid’, court told
Mail podcast (additional text info) The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 7: Baby E, 'I trusted her completely...'...
 
  • #422
5 aug night shigt
---------------------


.A 48-hour bag prescription of nutrition is signed, solely, by Lucy Letby, recording it ending at 12.25am on August 5.



*****glucose lvls low***** over repeated readings




5 aug day shift
--------

.A nursing note records there was a change from the TPN/lipid and 10% dextrose administration to 'just 15% dextrose with sodium chloride added'.
The new fluids were commenced at 7pm


.At 9.17pm, Child F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 4.1




.Child F's blood glucose levels rose to 9.9 at 1.30am on August 6





----------------

!IMO!

the tpn bag signed for by Letby had insulin introduced. Once this bag is removed Child F improves.

!IMO!
----------------



"

The insulin reading is 4,657.
The insulin c-pep reading is less than 169

The two readings [insulin and insulin c-pep] are "expected to be similar," Dr Beech tells the court

"


I think this means the insulin can not be naturally occuring. prehaps someone with medical background can confirm.
 
  • #423
I'm sure we are all curious why the info about salsa class and house viewings have been included...
 
  • #424
I'm sure we are all curious why the info about salsa class and house viewings have been included...
I think the viewing of a new house took her mind off other things.

Moo
 
  • #425
I'm sure we are all curious why the info about salsa class and house viewings have been included...
I think there's a massive contrast between her earlier messages after A, C and D died, and her mindset a day after E died a horrific death, and she left work that morning with F in perilous condition -

A

Haven't had much sleep. Don't really want to see parents but it's got to be done. 'I said to [another nurse] that I can't look after [Child B] because I just don't know how I'm going to feel seeing parents. 'Dad was on the floor crying saying ''please don't take our baby away'' when we took him to the mortuary. It's just heart-breaking. 'It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

"I just keep thinking about Monday. I just feel I need to be in 1, to get the image out of my head. To be in 3 is eating me up. All I can see is him in 1. It probably sounds odd but it's how I feel x"

C

"I was struggling to accept what happened to [Child A], now we’ve lost [Child C] as well and it's all a bit much."
“I just keep seeing them both. No one should have to see and do the things we do. It’s heartbreaking.”

D

"We had such a rubbish night. Our job is just far too sad sometimes."We lost baby [D]."
So upsetting for everyone. Parents absolutely devastated, dad screaming. Andrew Brunton and Liz Newby said it will probably be investigated. Dad is beside himself.”
It’s just been another shock for us all. I feel a bit numb this time. But it's part of the job and it's hard for everyone."

Work has been awful. We have had three unexpected deaths, transfer out, few sick ones, unit full”. "What I’ve seen has really hit me tonight."
No, been off since Wednesday morning and now it has all hit me."
Colleague asks if LL tries "talking to a proper counsellor".
LL replies that she does not think she can.
Colleague: "Why not?"
LL: "I can't talk about it now...I can't stop crying...I just need to get it out of my system."

"I had a mini meltdown last night about what's happened at work..."I just need some time off with mum and dad."

E

"You ok? Just heard about baby [E]. Did you have him? Sending hugs xx"
LL: "News travels fast - who told you? Yeah I had them both, was horrible."
Guess he was very high risk. Was just awful, he was bleeding from everywhere during resus. Got him back but gas incompatible. Parents completely distraught. I feel numb.

Jennifer Jones-Key: "Hey how's you? x"
LL: "Not so good, we lost baby [E] overnight.x"
JJ-K: "That’s sad. You’re on a terrible run at the moment. Were you in room 1?"
LL: "I had him and Baby [F]x"
JJ-K: "That is not good, you need a break from it being on your shift.x"
LL: "It's the luck of the draw isn’t it, unfortunately. Only three trained, so I ended up having them both, whereas just baby F the other shifts."
JJ-K: "You seem to be having some very bad luck though."
LL: "Not a lot I could do really. He had a massive haemorrhage. It could’ve happened to any baby x."


F

LL’s texts to a colleague Minna Lappalainen:
LL: "Hi! Are you going to salsa tonite?"
Coll: "Should do really as I haven't been for ages. Meet at TF 2020?”
LL: 'ok' emoji. LL adds: "Need to try and find some sort of nites energy", before clarifying "post nites"
Coll: “Don’t have to stay late.”
LL: "Hasta luego".



One might almost think she was on a high, IMO
 
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  • #426
I think there's a massive contrast between her earlier messages after A, C and D died, and her mindset a day after E died a horrific death, and she left work that morning with F in perilous condition -

A

Haven't had much sleep. Don't really want to see parents but it's got to be done. 'I said to [another nurse] that I can't look after [Child B] because I just don't know how I'm going to feel seeing parents. 'Dad was on the floor crying saying ''please don't take our baby away'' when we took him to the mortuary. It's just heart-breaking. 'It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

"I just keep thinking about Monday. I just feel I need to be in 1, to get the image out of my head. To be in 3 is eating me up. All I can see is him in 1. It probably sounds odd but it's how I feel x"

C

"I was struggling to accept what happened to [Child A], now we’ve lost [Child C] as well and it's all a bit much."
“I just keep seeing them both. No one should have to see and do the things we do. It’s heartbreaking.”

D

"We had such a rubbish night. Our job is just far too sad sometimes."We lost baby [D]."
So upsetting for everyone. Parents absolutely devastated, dad screaming. Andrew Brunton and Liz Newby said it will probably be investigated. Dad is beside himself.”
It’s just been another shock for us all. I feel a bit numb this time. But it's part of the job and it's hard for everyone."

Work has been awful. We have had three unexpected deaths, transfer out, few sick ones, unit full”. "What I’ve seen has really hit me tonight."
No, been off since Wednesday morning and now it has all hit me."
Colleague asks if LL tries "talking to a proper counsellor".
LL replies that she does not think she can.
Colleague: "Why not?"
LL: "I can't talk about it now...I can't stop crying...I just need to get it out of my system."

"I had a mini meltdown last night about what's happened at work..."I just need some time off with mum and dad."

E

"You ok? Just heard about baby [E]. Did you have him? Sending hugs xx"
LL: "News travels fast - who told you? Yeah I had them both, was horrible."
Guess he was very high risk. Was just awful, he was bleeding from everywhere during resus. Got him back but gas incompatible. Parents completely distraught. I feel numb.

Jennifer Jones-Key: "Hey how's you? x"
LL: "Not so good, we lost baby [E] overnight.x"
JJ-K: "That’s sad. You’re on a terrible run at the moment. Were you in room 1?"
LL: "I had him and Baby [F]x"
JJ-K: "That is not good, you need a break from it being on your shift.x"
LL: "It's the luck of the draw isn’t it, unfortunately. Only three trained, so I ended up having them both, whereas just baby F the other shifts."
JJ-K: "You seem to be having some very bad luck though."
LL: "Not a lot I could do really. He had a massive haemorrhage. It could’ve happened to any baby x."


F

LL’s texts to a colleague Minna Lappalainen:
LL: "Hi! Are you going to salsa tonite?"
Coll: "Should do really as I haven't been for ages. Meet at TF 2020?”
LL: 'ok' emoji. LL adds: "Need to try and find some sort of nites energy", before clarifying "post nites"
Coll: “Don’t have to stay late.”
LL: "Hasta luego".

IMO
I wonder if she is worried colleagues are starting to suspect a pattern, so she isn't going to them for the emotional support and validation that she did in the earlier cases? And is letting them know she is just fine and dandy, it's very sad, but it's fate laa dee dah...

To be honest, I wouldn't have noticed the difference, but the fact the prosecution included those details shows they must mean something to them
 
  • #427
Perhaps the salsa texts inclusion is intended to demonstrate that on the one hand LL is claiming to be distraught and traumatised (my paraphrasing) but on the other hand going out dancing as if the two things cannot mutually exist. On the subject of sounds like she's high, I don't personally agree with what little info we have so far but I do wonder how much any type of regular alcohol / substance use is perhaps involved in this story. JMO MOO
 
  • #428
Perhaps the salsa texts inclusion is intended to demonstrate that on the one hand LL is claiming to be distraught and traumatised (my paraphrasing) but on the other hand going out dancing as if the two things cannot mutually exist. On the subject of sounds like she's high, I don't personally agree with what little info we have so far but I do wonder how much any type of regular alcohol / substance use is perhaps involved in this story. JMO MOO
'on a high' means excited, not high as in under the influence.
 
  • #429
'on a high' means excited, not high as in under the influence.

Acknowledged and agreed. Although I am personally wondering in the literal sense too. On the grounds that many people self medicate overwhelming anxiety and work stress which can then turn into something else in its own right. There were so many pictures of LL holding drinks when the story first broke that I wasn't sure if the mainstream media was trying to imply something as I don't know where they got them all from but there must be a full range including many where she's not. JMO MOO
 
  • #430
I wanted to understand the TPN bag history so took the liberty of vastly condensing Tortoise's excellent timeline for focus:


8am – LL’s night shift ended.

10am – Dr Ogden records a blood glucose level for F of '1.3'. (electronic evidence)

[Noon – A TPN bag was re-fitted to F. This was either the same bag that was interrupted at 11am, which LL had signed for, or a stock bag from the fridge. (opening speech)]

[4pm – A new bespoke TPN was delivered to the unit for F. (opening speech)]

5.40pm – "Also to stop TPN, check urinary [sodium], cortisol and insulin."

5.56pm – F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 1.3 at 5.56pm.

[5.56pm – F's blood sample at 5.56pm had a very low glucose level, and after he was taken off the TPN and replaced with dextrose, his blood glucose levels returned to normal by 7.30pm. He had no further episodes of hypoglycaemia. ... (prosecution opening speech)]

6pm - F's blood glucose level is recorded as 1.9 at 6pm.

7pm - A nursing note records there was a change from the TPN/lipid and 10% dextrose administration to 'just 15% dextrose with sodium chloride added'. The new fluids were commenced at 7pm.

9.17pm - F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 4.1.


So yeah, that clarifies things a lot: if the TPN was not changed at noon, then LL's bag was in place until 4pm (arrival of new bag) or until it was removed at 5.40pm, and while there isn't specific timings given to confirm the prosecution's assertion that the blood sugar level was normal by 7.30pm, it certainly was by 9.17pm, and I can well believe an upwards trajectory from the removal of the TPN bag.

Of course we don't yet know if the bag was changed or not (it appears the defense say it was, although that could've been at 4pm rather than noon?), but even if it was changed at 4pm, I guess the insulin would continue to have an effect for a while? Since my limited knowledge of diabetes is that people aren't injecting themselves constantly, but only 1-2 times a day, it must have some staying power.

The question now is if it was changed at noon, as I'd think that that would add serious doubt... but if there's no proof of that happening, it's a very significant case as there's no doubt that this one was deliberate, the only question is by whom.
 
  • #431
Yes I did notice that virtually every tabloid picture of LL printed by MSM she is holding a drink.
 
  • #432
What is the significance of the Salsa dancing to the prosecution? It seems like the sort of detail included only for the press to have some headlines. The more they stick to the medical evidence the stronger the case
 
  • #433
Yes I did notice that virtually every tabloid picture of LL printed by MSM she is holding a drink.
Yes I did notice that virtually every tabloid picture of LL printed by MSM she is holding a drink.
I don't think that's unusual if the pics were taken from social media. The majority of pics friends have posted of me on social media would show me with a drink in my hand, but that's only because the pics are normally taken when we're out having a drink. Nobody takes pics of me when I'm working, or out shopping or sat at home on my laptop when I don't have a drink in my hand.
 
  • #434
3:22pm

Dr Beech says it would take some time from prescribing the TPN bag to it then being administered.
Mr Myers asks for clarity on how the second prescription comes to be made, with a different rate of administration of Babiven and a new lipid and new 10% dextrose doses.
Dr Beech confirms she did not prescribe these additional nutritions, as they are signed by a colleague.
The total nutrition administration is now 165ml and the rate is slightly increased from the first, crossed-out prescription of total 150ml fluid.
Dr Beech says the additional nutrition would come on separate infusions.

3:22pm

That concludes Dr Beech's evidenc


This bit is confusing me. So Babiven is TPN? At first Dr Beech appeared to be saying that she prescribed both bags(the crossed out one for 150 ml and the new one of 165 ml) but then here she's saying she only prescribed the crossed out 150ml one, and a "colleague" prescribed the other bag. Who is the colleague? Presumably the 165ml one is the one that LL then took out the fridge and used?
 
  • #435
But how can a nurse give glucose injections to a baby without consulting with a doctor?
And to not a designated patient into the bargain?

This case is absolutely out of this world o_O

Moo
This is confusing me too . They appear to be saying that Baby F's blood sugar dropped after the TPN bag was administered, while LL was still on shift and that they administered dextrose to raise his blood sugar. Surely that disproves her defence's claim that the insulin was in a new bag that was (possibly) fitted on the next shift after LL had gone home?

But also if they were already aware of the low blood sugar while LL was on shift, and were administering dextrose (via a line?) for it... then why was LL also giving Baby F glucose injections?
 
  • #436
Yes I hear you but I wondered if the press were saying something with the drink photographs without actually “ saying anything “ if you get my drift ?
As for the salsa dancing maybe they were trying to infer she was heartless by allegedly killing a baby one day, the following day trying to kill another then the following day off to salsa ? Who knows it’s relevance yet but it will not be mentioned for nothing.
I also think she wanted to go out to gauge what her friends and colleagues were saying about everything. IMO obviously
 
  • #437
Perhaps the salsa texts inclusion is intended to demonstrate that on the one hand LL is claiming to be distraught and traumatised (my paraphrasing) but on the other hand going out dancing as if the two things cannot mutually exist.

I agree that the two things can co-exist. I don't think her going to Salsa is damning on its own at all. If she is innocent then it wouldn't be unusual for somebody in her line of work to have a social life and hobbies to take their mind off the upsetting part of their job. However, if she is guilty and the prosecution is able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt then it shows a real callousness, lack of remorse and almost detachment to go to Salsa, so soon after killing one baby and trying to kill that baby's twin. Maybe that would influence the sentencing?

IMO
 
  • #438

I wanted to understand the TPN bag history so took the liberty of vastly condensing Tortoise's excellent timeline for focus:


8am – LL’s night shift ended.

10am – Dr Ogden records a blood glucose level for F of '1.3'. (electronic evidence)

[Noon – A TPN bag was re-fitted to F. This was either the same bag that was interrupted at 11am, which LL had signed for, or a stock bag from the fridge. (opening speech)]

[4pm – A new bespoke TPN was delivered to the unit for F. (opening speech)]

5.40pm – "Also to stop TPN, check urinary [sodium], cortisol and insulin."

5.56pm – F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 1.3 at 5.56pm.

[5.56pm – F's blood sample at 5.56pm had a very low glucose level, and after he was taken off the TPN and replaced with dextrose, his blood glucose levels returned to normal by 7.30pm. He had no further episodes of hypoglycaemia. ... (prosecution opening speech)]

6pm - F's blood glucose level is recorded as 1.9 at 6pm.

7pm - A nursing note records there was a change from the TPN/lipid and 10% dextrose administration to 'just 15% dextrose with sodium chloride added'. The new fluids were commenced at 7pm.

9.17pm - F's blood glucose level is recorded as being 4.1.


So yeah, that clarifies things a lot: if the TPN was not changed at noon, then LL's bag was in place until 4pm (arrival of new bag) or until it was removed at 5.40pm, and while there isn't specific timings given to confirm the prosecution's assertion that the blood sugar level was normal by 7.30pm, it certainly was by 9.17pm, and I can well believe an upwards trajectory from the removal of the TPN bag.

Of course we don't yet know if the bag was changed or not (it appears the defense say it was, although that could've been at 4pm rather than noon?), but even if it was changed at 4pm, I guess the insulin would continue to have an effect for a while? Since my limited knowledge of diabetes is that people aren't injecting themselves constantly, but only 1-2 times a day, it must have some staying power.

The question now is if it was changed at noon, as I'd think that that would add serious doubt... but if there's no proof of that happening, it's a very significant case as there's no doubt that this one was deliberate, the only question is by whom.


But even if the bag was changed at noon on the day shift, it wouldn't explain why Baby F's blood sugar had already started dropping throughout LL's night shift, when it was definitely the bag she'd signed for on that shift.

So if the prosecution are saying insulin in a TPN bag caused the low blood sugar, and we can see that the low blood sugar started on LL's night shift and continued through the day shift till they stopped using the TPN completely, then that must mean there was either one bag with insulin in that was used on the night shift and then on the day shift, (even after the line change on the day shift).... OR that there were two bags and both had insulin in. I can't see how the defence's claim that the bag was changed, would mean there was no insulin in the first bag. Granted, we don't know what Baby F's insulin levels were on LL's night shift (as they never tested) , but we know that his blood sugar was low
 
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  • #439
But even if the bag was changed at noon on the day shift, it wouldn't explain why Baby F's blood sugar had already started dropping throughout LL's night shift, when it was definitely the bag she'd signed for on that shift.

So if the prosecution are saying insulin in a TPN bag caused the low blood sugar, and we can see that the low blood sugar started on LL's night shift and continued through the day shift till they stopped using the TPN completely, then that must mean there was either one bag with insulin in that was used on the night shift and then on the day shift, (even after the line change on the day shift).... OR that there were two bags and both had insulin in. I can't see how the defence's claim that the bag was changed, would mean there was no insulin in the first bag. Granted, we don't know what Baby F's insulin levels were on LL's night shift (as they never tested) , but we know that his blood sugar was low

It's not that it would mean there was no insulin in the first bag; there clearly was so that's not a question in my mind - it's that it could mean there was also insulin in the second bag, which was prepared when LL wasn't present. In other words, the insulin poisoner couldn't be her in that situation (I'm sure people can come up with complicated theories to explain it, but not being present for 4/8 hours before the change is very clear "reasonable doubt" IMO). And since it seems clear that someone caused such a high level of insulin to occur, what chance is there of there being two people with murderous intent in the same hospital at the same time?

Which makes it extremely important to determine if or when the bag was changed - and if it was, how long that much insulin would continue having an effect inside baby F after the source is removed. It may well be the second bag is a red herring, either there never was one, or it wouldn't have shown an effect in that much time anyway (assuming it was benign), in which case, case very near proved.

Hopefully there can be some clarity on that from future witnesses, as it seems so important to me, as in, make or break the entire case level of importance. So, no doubt there'll be no confirmation either way and we'll be left to speculate for the rest of the trial ;)
 
  • #440
Acknowledged and agreed. Although I am personally wondering in the literal sense too. On the grounds that many people self medicate overwhelming anxiety and work stress which can then turn into something else in its own right. There were so many pictures of LL holding drinks when the story first broke that I wasn't sure if the mainstream media was trying to imply something as I don't know where they got them all from but there must be a full range including many where she's not. JMO MOO
I think if anyone were to say to me they were going to Salsa after a stressful few days at work I would say that's a great idea, and pleased they were doing something that would probably help them cope. People can be very stressed and even traumatised but still try things to help themselves.

At the moment we don't know the significance of the texts, they may have been mentioned only as incidental texts in between the other ones, or they may turn out to contradict something in other evidence to be introduced later in the trial.
 
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