UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #9

[ColourPurple]

2:54pm

A series of messages recovered from Letby's phone, of messages sent to and from her phone at around 9am on September 26, are shown to the court. They include Letby's colleague Yvonne Griffiths commending Letby for "all your hard work these last few nights". She says Letby "composed" herself "very well during a stressful situation" and it was "nice to see" her "confidence grow" as she advanced throughout her career.
Letby shows this message to a colleague and asks her how she should reply. Her colleague expresses surprise. A series of messages are exchanged between Letby and the colleague acknowledging there had previously been "bitchiness" among staff and there had been "comments" about Letby regarding her role which Letby had found "upsetting".

2:56pm

Medical notes record Child H's parents were present as treatment continued for the baby girl, with further medication administered during the day of September 26.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 18

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Finding this one a bit harder to follow (timeline wise). Are they saying Baby H was born on 22nd September, had her first collapse on the 25/26 September night shift when LL was her designated nurse. On the morning of the 26th LL got praised for her compusure during the collapse, and then on the next night shift 26/27th September Baby H collapsed again while LL was her designated nurse?

 

[Dotta]

Arrowe park is a higher level unit, I would expect it to have a different set-up. They deal with more high dependency babies.

Yes, Thank you.
I remember ppl wrote here that it is some kind of Emergency hospital.

 

[ColourPurple]

I Think the post it note really was a stupid thing to write either way but especially if she is guilty as charged. Stupid thing to write when she knew she was under suspicion and even more stupid to keep it around rather than dispose of, the same as the other medical documents found by the police. I kind of think it’s presence is more indicative of someone who was just distraught and in turmoil and perhaps prone to making mistakes as any normal person would be in that situation. Nothing quite like pressure and feeling to make a person slip up.
JMO

I'm wondering if she didn't even realise she still had the post it note. To me, a post it note is a more temporary/disposable way of recording information than say a diary, which is a permanent record. A post it note could easily be lost or hidden away unintentionally.

It would be interesting to find out how much she knew at each stage, about what she was being accused of and at what stage she was aware that police were likely to become involved and possibly search her home.At what point did she realise that she wasn' just being accused of not doing her job properly but was actually going to be accused of murdering babies.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

sorry guys I got pulled into a meeting (not about my computer use at work lol) I'll catch us up quickly now!

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:11pm

The trial is now resuming following a short break.
Intelligence analyst Kate Tyndall is continuing to talk through the sequence of events, which had reached the night shift of September 26-27, 2015.

3:14pm

At this point, Child H was the only baby in room one of the neonatal unit, and for this night shift (September 26-27), Letby was the designated nurse for two babies in room two.

3:19pm

There is a further, profound desaturation for Child H, with a crash call made at 8.49pm.
Dr Matthew Neame recorded attending to the neonatal unit.
Letby, on shift, messages a colleague at 9.31pm to give an update on Child H's progress throughout the day.
She messages colleague Alison Ventress a couple of moments later to say Child H 'had a stable day', and took out the original drain at 8pm, adding 'just blocked tube, lots of secretions!'.

3:22pm

Letby messages her colleague, for Child H, 'I've been helping Shelley [Tomlins, designated nurse for Child H that night] so least still involved but haven't got the responsibility'.
Colleague Alison Ventress messaged Letby: "Never known a baby block tubes so often!! Glad she's had a stable day..."

3:26pm

Letby messages a colleague just before 11pm, lamenting that she had forgotten to record Strictly that night, and BBC iPlayer doesn't work on her iPad.
Letby then is recorded as being on Facebook at 12.45am and 12.46am, liking a post and photo.
Child H then has a 'profound desaturation' timed at 12.55am. Nurse Shelley Tomlins recorded: 'profound desaturation to 40% despite equal bilateral entry and positive capnography'.

3:31pm

Staff were crash called to the neonatal unit room 1. Dr Matthew Neame reincubated Child H and chest compressions were started at 1.07am. Child H's heart rate dropped to 40bpm.
Adrenaline was administered.
Chest compressions were discontinued at 1.13am.
A request was made to transfer Child H to Arrowe Park Hospital.
"No explanation" could be found for why Child H had had such a profound desaturation, the court hears.

3:37pm

Child H had a further desaturation at 3.30am, and medication was administered.
The transport team arrived at 4.10am and Child H was handed to the transport incubator at 4.45am and the handover was completed at 5.20am.
Child H was cared for at Arrowe Park Hospital between 6.10am on September 27 to 11.30am on September 30.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 18

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Finding this one a bit harder to follow (timeline wise). Are they saying Baby H was born on 22nd September, had her first collapse on the 25/26 September night shift when LL was her designated nurse. On the morning of the 26th LL got praised for her compusure during the collapse, and then on the next night shift 26/27th September Baby H collapsed again while LL was her designated nurse?

The prosecution say Letby attempted to kill Child H on September 26 at 3.24am, and on September 27 at 12.55am, she was the designated nurse *in room 2* for both of those night shifts

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:49pm

Child H returned to the Countess at 12.15pm on September 30, and was discharged on 5.05pm on October 9, 2015.

3:51pm

Further messages found on Letby's phone from that morning are relayed to the court. Letby informed two colleagues what had happened to Child H that night.
Colleague Alison Ventress replied: "Think of all the babies you have saved and have gone home happily."

3:53pm

On October 5, 2015, Letby searched on Facebook for the mother of Child H, as well as two other parents involved in the case, in the space of three minutes at 1.15am.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 18

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:57pm

A corrected slide from the sequence of events is now shown to the court, showing that for the September 26-27 night shift, Shelley Tomlins was the designated nurse for Child H in room 1 - the only baby in that room that night.
Lucy Letby was a designated nurse for two babies in room 2, with another nurse, Christopher Booth, looking after Child G in room 2. Four babies, including Child I, were being looked after in room 3, and four babies were being looked after in room 4.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 18

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

I'm wondering if she didn't even realise she still had the post it note. To me, a post it note is a more temporary/disposable way of recording information than say a diary, which is a permanent record. A post it note could easily be lost or hidden away unintentionally.

It would be interesting to find out how much she knew at each stage, about what she was being accused of and at what stage she was aware that police were likely to become involved and possibly search her home.At what point did she realise that she wasn' just being accused of not doing her job properly but was actually going to be accused of murdering babies.

you see I would think that if she were guilty and writing that note, the accompanying emotion felt at that time would mean she would write it and then immediately dispose of it Because it would be so significant in her own mind. Regardless of her understanding of the severity of potential punishment. I also agree writing anything on a post it note is more disregardable. Does that mean the words and their meaning are of less importance in her own mind or that she wrote it with the intention of discarding it? I would go with the former just looking at the language. I think it simply wouldn’t be found Because she would understand the gravity of the situation and that would create the precedent for making sure it was disposed of, assuming her self preserving instincts are working and in order As well as her knowing she is guilty And trying to avoid incriminating herself Which would be in line with her not guilty plea. I’m no expert but that’s what I think.

 

[Sweeper2000]

@LadyEdgeworth any ideas on the likelihood of a cold blooded killer watching a soap like coronation street? I would guess eastenders would be more their thing.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

4:02pm

Intelligence analyst Claire Hocknall has been recalled to talk the court through the neonatal review schedule for Child H.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 18

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

...
3:31pm

Staff were crash called to the neonatal unit room 1. Dr Matthew Neame reincubated Child H and chest compressions were started at 1.07am. Child H's heart rate dropped to 40bpm.
Adrenaline was administered.
Chest compressions were discontinued at 1.13am.
A request was made to transfer Child H to Arrowe Park Hospital.
"No explanation" could be found for why Child H had had such a profound desaturation, the court hears.

3:37pm

Child H had a further desaturation at 3.30am, and medication was administered.
The transport team arrived at 4.10am and Child H was handed to the transport incubator at 4.45am and the handover was completed at 5.20am.
Child H was cared for at Arrowe Park Hospital between 6.10am on September 27 to 11.30am on September 30.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 18

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

We've heard that story before, where a baby had a desaturaton and the decision was made to transfer them to Arrowe Park and then they had another desat, right before they were due to go. Thankfully Baby H survived .

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

@LadyEdgeworth any ideas on the likelihood of a cold blooded killer watching a soap like coronation street?

lol! No idea I don’t really watch soaps, they are a lot of drama though. My nana watched corrie though so I hope there isn’t some link there!

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Court being shown more messages between Ms Letby and a nursing colleague, who can't be named for legal reasons, sent after Child H's second collapse on September 27

Ms Letby's then colleague commented that 'there’s something odd with (Child H)' Ms Letby responded: 'Hopefully she’ll sort herself out'

Ms Letby later said: 'It’s all just so rubbish lately... 'Everyone is pretty burnt out and unit been awful'

 

[Sundial]

3:11pm

The trial is now resuming following a short break.
Intelligence analyst Kate Tyndall is continuing to talk through the sequence of events, which had reached the night shift of September 26-27, 2015.

3:14pm

At this point, Child H was the only baby in room one of the neonatal unit, and for this night shift (September 26-27), Letby was the designated nurse for two babies in room two.

3:19pm

There is a further, profound desaturation for Child H, with a crash call made at 8.49pm.
Dr Matthew Neame recorded attending to the neonatal unit.
Letby, on shift, messages a colleague at 9.31pm to give an update on Child H's progress throughout the day.
She messages colleague Alison Ventress a couple of moments later to say Child H 'had a stable day', and took out the original drain at 8pm, adding 'just blocked tube, lots of secretions!'.

3:22pm

Letby messages her colleague, for Child H, 'I've been helping Shelley [Tomlins, designated nurse for Child H that night] so least still involved but haven't got the responsibility'.
Colleague Alison Ventress messaged Letby: "Never known a baby block tubes so often!! Glad she's had a stable day..."

3:26pm

Letby messages a colleague just before 11pm, lamenting that she had forgotten to record Strictly that night, and BBC iPlayer doesn't work on her iPad.
Letby then is recorded as being on Facebook at 12.45am and 12.46am, liking a post and photo.
Child H then has a 'profound desaturation' timed at 12.55am. Nurse Shelley Tomlins recorded: 'profound desaturation to 40% despite equal bilateral entry and positive capnography'.

3:31pm

Staff were crash called to the neonatal unit room 1. Dr Matthew Neame reincubated Child H and chest compressions were started at 1.07am. Child H's heart rate dropped to 40bpm.
Adrenaline was administered.
Chest compressions were discontinued at 1.13am.
A request was made to transfer Child H to Arrowe Park Hospital.
"No explanation" could be found for why Child H had had such a profound desaturation, the court hears.

3:37pm

Child H had a further desaturation at 3.30am, and medication was administered.
The transport team arrived at 4.10am and Child H was handed to the transport incubator at 4.45am and the handover was completed at 5.20am.
Child H was cared for at Arrowe Park Hospital between 6.10am on September 27 to 11.30am on September 30.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 18

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

This seems a little strange IMO, (unless I’m misreading), whilst she certainly does seem to like to message colleagues somewhat, how could the baby be “stable” when she’d collapsed that day?
Also interesting how (this doctor) Ventress comments on a blocked tube so many times but i don’t see any mention of blocked tubes in LL reports as yet.

 

[ColourPurple]

you see I would think that if she were guilty and writing that note, the accompanying emotion felt at that time would mean she would write it and then immediately dispose of it Because it would be so significant in her own mind. Regardless of her understanding of the severity of potential punishment. I also agree writing anything on a post it note is more disregardable. Does that mean the words and their meaning are of less importance in her own mind or that she wrote it with the intention of discarding it? I would go with the former just looking at the language. I think it simply wouldn’t be found Because she would understand the gravity of the situation and that would create the precedent for making sure it was disposed of, assuming her self preserving instincts are working and in order As well as her knowing she is guilty And trying to avoid incriminating herself Which would be in line with her not guilty plea. I’m no expert but that’s what I think.

Its hard to make sense of it. Some of it looks like a confession, other bits look like a denial. And to me it looks like it wasn't all written in one go. If you read the left side top to bottom(which I'd guess she wrote first) she starts off saying she's done nothing wrong but ends up saying " I killed them on purpose". Then it looks like the writing on the right hand side was squeezed in afterwards, and then it looks like the writing in capitals with stuff like "I AM EVIL I DID THIS" and "HATE" was squeezed in and written over some of the other stuff so was possibly written last. It also looks like there's possibly some creasing which might indicate it was screwed up after it was written. I don't think writing it on a post it note makes the words any less important. I just think it makes it more likely that she wasnt intending to keep them as a permanent record.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/10/13/16/63434967-0-image-a-6_1665675781772.jpg

ETA I dont want to distract from Baby H's case. I'm sure we'll get a bit more detail about the note and the timeline for her being suspended/questioned etc later in the trial.

 

[ColourPurple]

This seems a little strange IMO, (unless I’m misreading), whilst she certainly does seem to like to message colleagues somewhat, how could the baby be “stable” when she’d collapsed that day?
Also interesting how (this doctor) Ventress comments on a blocked tube so many times but i don’t see any mention of blocked tubes in LL reports as yet.

I wonder if this bit from LL's notes is about the tubes? "Serous fluid +++ from all 3 drains, "

 

[Sundial]

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Court being shown more messages between Ms Letby and a nursing colleague, who can't be named for legal reasons, sent after Child H's second collapse on September 27

Ms Letby's then colleague commented that 'there’s something odd with (Child H)' Ms Letby responded: 'Hopefully she’ll sort herself out'

Ms Letby later said: 'It’s all just so rubbish lately... 'Everyone is pretty burnt out and unit been awful'

Really strange vibe with this case, all things considered.

Colleagues appear to notice something is off IMO and earlier it’s mentioned LL is “praised” by unit manager which she shared with her colleague.. said colleague is reportedly surprised given comments about LL by other staff about her role. I wonder therefore if it isn’t necessarily bitchiness (as was discussed in that text), but staff were raising genuine concern about competence (her confidence was mentioned by the manager) and general ability to do her job adequately.

Perhaps there were already discussions amongst staff on the floor (not just consultants as mentioned in opening speeches) of this very nature. Thinking back to her note she wrote something along the lines of; slander, bullying etc. Is this what she was referring to perhaps?

Whilst she may see it as bullying or slander; perhaps it was genuine concern regarding her performance. She seems to flit back and forth a lot with these messages between various colleagues almost to make a point of being competent, finding the poorly baby, raising the alarm, messaging doctors etc. It seems almost over-compensatory to prove a point of being “outstanding” with all this information and knowledge but can’t remember searching all these families on Facebook.

When we looked at baby G, her colleague stated what was reported online was untrue over the whole monitor (on/off) saga with the doctors and yet the messages regarding baby’s Hs case seems to give more indication to work-colleagues thoughts. Is she trying to impress the unit manager and then making a point of showing a colleague to prove her capability?

It’s all just absolutely bizarre imo

 

[Sundial]

I wonder if this bit from LL's notes is about the tubes? "Serous fluid +++ from all 3 drains, "

Ah yes, thank you.

It’s odd though isn’t it;

Colleague Alison Ventress messaged Letby: "Never known a baby block tubes so often!! Glad she's had a stable day...

It was reported in evidence they couldn’t find what caused the collapses. Possibly, this may be one indicator, but it was suggested they didn’t know what the reason was for the others. It’s really strange imo.

 

[ColourPurple]

Really strange vibe with this case, all things considered.

Colleagues appear to notice something is off IMO and earlier it’s mentioned LL is “praised” by unit manager which she shared with her colleague.. said colleague is reportedly surprised given comments about LL by other staff about her role. I wonder therefore if it isn’t necessarily bitchiness (as was discussed in that text), but staff were raising genuine concern about competence (her confidence was mentioned by the manager) and general ability to do her job adequately.

Perhaps there were already discussions amongst staff on the floor (not just consultants as mentioned in opening speeches) of this very nature. Thinking back to her note she wrote something along the lines of; slander, bullying etc. Is this what she was referring to perhaps?

Whilst she may see it as bullying or slander; perhaps it was genuine concern regarding her performance. She seems to flit back and forth a lot with these messages between various colleagues almost to make a point of being competent, finding the poorly baby, raising the alarm, messaging doctors etc. It seems almost over-compensatory to prove a point of being “outstanding” with all this information and knowledge but can’t remember searching all these families on Facebook.

When we looked at baby G, her colleague stated what was reported online was untrue over the whole monitor (on/off) saga with the doctors and yet the messages regarding baby’s Hs case seems to give more indication to work-colleagues thoughts. Is she trying to impress the unit manager and then making a point of showing a colleague to prove her capability?

It’s all just absolutely bizarre imo

There do seem to have been a few occasions where colleagues have picked up on something being strange. When the colleague said there was something odd about Baby H I would have expected LL to ask what they meant by odd rather than just saying hopefully she'll sort herself out. But we could definitely do with hearing what the "bitchy" comments about her performance were. She doesn't mention bullying on the post it note from what I can see but does write the words "slander" and "discrimination" and what looks like "victiminisation".