UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #9

[Dotta]

I recall seeing this too. Isn’t it strange how even the parents noticed and questioned if there was something amiss aswell.

I guess in "medical killings" - when even the laypersons start noticing sth is off - it usually means the "final stage" of a SK.

When the perp becomes soooo careless and arrogant that it is her/his downfall.

JMO

 

[mart321]

Going back slightly but can anyone clarify in regards to the "confession" note found at LL's property.

What are the dates that this was estimated to have been wrote. Sometime between the house move 2016? And her first arrest June 2018 was it??

What suspicions where there at the point it was written?

She was suspended but at what stage was there an investigation?

Hopefully someone can clarify the main points of this

 

[ColourPurple]

Discussion follows further with the same colleague regarding baby H;

I think everyone is pretty burnt out and unit Been awful. Yvonne working way more than she should."

Letby and her colleague than discuss about looking "at a change of unit".

Letby messaged her colleague: "I still think about the women's. if only it were closer, would make decision much easier"

Alison Ventress messaged Letby at 1.11pm on Sunday: "Try to think of all the babies you've saved and have gone home happily with their parents. You're a fab nurse. Hope you manage some sleep *advertiser censored*"

Lucy Letby: Nurse 'commended' for work during 'stressful situation'

TEXT messages recovered from Lucy Letby's phone show the baby murder-accused nurse was commended for her "hard work" during a busy time at…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

She's talking about beng tired and burnt out but she volunteered to do the extra shift didnt she?

Interesting that she was considering moving to the women's hospital. Liverpool I assume, where she did her training and also the hospital where series 7-10 (aired 2015-2017) of the TV documentary series "One Born Ever Minute" was filmed.

Series 7 aired 10th March 2015 - 21 April 2015
Series 8 aired 22 July 2015 - 2nd September 2015
Series 9 aired 22nd March 2016 - 18 May 2016
Series 10 aired 4th April 2017 - 27th June 2017

www.thetvdb.com/series/one-born-every-minute/allseasons/official

One Born Every Minute​

Every minute of every day, a baby is born in Britain. One Born Every Minute celebrates what it really feels like to become a parent, by taking a bustling maternity hospital and filling it with forty cameras. Filming from the reception desk to the neo-natal ward; from the operating theatre to the birthing pool, this ground-breaking and tender new series observes the dramatic, emotional and often funny moments that go hand in hand with bringing a new life into the world, from the perspective of the soon-to-be parents and family, as well as the hospital staf

 

[Sweeper2000]

Going back slightly but can anyone clarify in regards to the "confession" note found at LL's property.

What are the dates that this was estimated to have been wrote. Sometime between the house move 2016? And her first arrest June 2018 was it??

What suspicions where there at the point it was written?

She was suspended but at what stage was there an investigation?

Hopefully someone can clarify the main points of this

I kind of think it would be irrelevant in the mind of LL were she fully aware that she was guilty of murdering and harming babies in her care. If she did know that and was trying to avoid suspicion she simply would not have written it at all Or if she had it would have been disposed of immediately after writing it. That would be more fitting for a deceitful person Knowing her own culpability And knowing she was under investigation Which she would have known at this point in time.

“Letby was told on Thursday that police had recovered several handwritten documents from her home after her arrest in July 2018. On one note shown to the jury, headlined “Not good enough,” she wrote: “I will never have children or marry. I will never know what it’s like to have a family” and “I can’t breathe.”

“Letby was moved from the neonatal ward in June 2016, the court heard, after consultants suspected “that the deaths and life-threatening collapses of these 17 children were not medically explicable” and were the result of “the actions of Lucy Letby”. She was moved to clerical duties where she would not come into contact with children, Johnson said.”

“Letby was eventually removed from the neonatal ward in June 2016 – four months after a senior doctor had started to connect her to unexplained deaths and collapses, the trial has heard. In that four-month period she is alleged to have murdered two brothers from a set of triplets and to have attempted to kill five other babies.”

Lucy Letby: police found note saying ‘I killed them on purpose’, court hears

Nurse accused of murdering seven babies on neonatal ward also wrote ‘I am a horrible evil person’, jury told

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sundial]

She's talking about beng tired and burnt out but she volunteered to do the extra shift didnt she?

Interesting that she was considering moving to the women's hospital. Liverpool I assume, where she did her training and also the hospital where series 7-10 (aired 2015-2017) of the TV documentary series "One Born Ever Minute" was filmed.

Series 7 aired 10th March 2015 - 21 April 2015
Series 8 aired 22 July 2015 - 2nd September 2015
Series 9 aired 22nd March 2016 - 18 May 2016
Series 10 aired 4th April 2017 - 27th June 2017

www.thetvdb.com/series/one-born-every-minute/allseasons/official

One Born Every Minute​

Every minute of every day, a baby is born in Britain. One Born Every Minute celebrates what it really feels like to become a parent, by taking a bustling maternity hospital and filling it with forty cameras. Filming from the reception desk to the neo-natal ward; from the operating theatre to the birthing pool, this ground-breaking and tender new series observes the dramatic, emotional and often funny moments that go hand in hand with bringing a new life into the world, from the perspective of the soon-to-be parents and family, as well as the hospital staf

I assume she did put herself forward for extra shifts yes. It’s been reported she would often agree to shifts at short notice too. This also from the Chester standard;

The text messages showed Letby messaging a colleague to say she was working an extra night shift on September 23. The following morning, referring to the number of babies at the neonatal unit and the staffing levels, Letby messaged a colleague to say: "It's completely unsafe."

She then messaged a friend to say: "I won't be able to make to hula hoop [exercise] – work mad so doing extra nights x".

But like you mention; if she (or other staff) are burnt out etc, why volunteer for further shifts. We’ve seen in evidence other colleagues state they needed a break, and whilst she acknowledges burn out and tiredness, why (even between everything going on with baby G and H at that time and previous deaths), would she then do another extra shift on 23 September aswell.

I noticed this also with the woman’s hospital. She made reference to that in earlier cases aswell where she said some ring along the lines of not much team spirit and referred to women’s unit then.

*eta this should read “something along the lines of” (not some ring!)

 

[ColourPurple]

Going back slightly but can anyone clarify in regards to the "confession" note found at LL's property.

What are the dates that this was estimated to have been wrote. Sometime between the house move 2016? And her first arrest June 2018 was it??

What suspicions where there at the point it was written?

She was suspended but at what stage was there an investigation?

Hopefully someone can clarify the main points of this

As far as I know we don't know the date it was written. It mentions "police investigation" so I'd assume it was written when she found out there could be or would be one, but we donlt know when she found that out either.
I can't make out what the word after police investigation is . Is it "forget" "forged" ?

'I AM EVIL. I DID THIS': Post-It notes written by nurse Lucy Letby

On day four of her trial at Manchester Crown Court the jury was told that messages written by Lucy Letby, 32, were found at her home after her arrest including one that said: 'I killed them on purpose.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Parker Knoll]

The defence are making mincemeat of the witnesses today.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Discussion follows further with the same colleague regarding baby H;

I think everyone is pretty burnt out and unit Been awful. Yvonne working way more than she should."

Letby and her colleague than discuss about looking "at a change of unit".

Letby messaged her colleague: "I still think about the women's. if only it were closer, would make decision much easier"

Alison Ventress messaged Letby at 1.11pm on Sunday: "Try to think of all the babies you've saved and have gone home happily with their parents. You're a fab nurse. Hope you manage some sleep *advertiser censored*"

Lucy Letby: Nurse 'commended' for work during 'stressful situation'

TEXT messages recovered from Lucy Letby's phone show the baby murder-accused nurse was commended for her "hard work" during a busy time at…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

im looking at that conversation and drawing conclusions in my own mind at least. I would agree that most people seem to be noticing something isn’t right or at least in line with what is normal. I’m specifically looking at how she mentions a desire for a potential transfer. It’s really interesting to me, one would think if she knew she had been doing things on that level of wrong, with many people including herself noticing things being at least unusual, the bitchiness of recent times and her own apparent aversion to the unit would create a precedent for that transfer with location not being an issue really Or offset by the positives of not being on the NNU. That conversation seems very genuine to me. She doesn’t seem to display any particular interest in being on the NNU which I would assume to be a prerequisite for her if she was actually attacking babies as alleged. Ofc it could be lies but so could everything she says.

 

[Sweeper2000]

As far as I know we don't know the date it was written. It mentions "police investigation" so I'd assume it was written when she found out there could be or would be one, but we donlt know when she found that out either.
I can't make out what the word after police investigation is . Is it "forget" "forged" ?

'I AM EVIL. I DID THIS': Post-It notes written by nurse Lucy Letby

On day four of her trial at Manchester Crown Court the jury was told that messages written by Lucy Letby, 32, were found at her home after her arrest including one that said: 'I killed them on purpose.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

It’s forget.

 

[ColourPurple]

Going back slightly but can anyone clarify in regards to the "confession" note found at LL's property.

What are the dates that this was estimated to have been wrote. Sometime between the house move 2016? And her first arrest June 2018 was it??

What suspicions where there at the point it was written?

She was suspended but at what stage was there an investigation?

Hopefully someone can clarify the main points of this

This is a heplful timeline of events up until LL's arrest on 3rd July 2018. So the hospital asked police to investigate the deaths in May 2017 and she was arrested in July 2018 and the documents were found when police searched her home after her arrest. No idea if that means that police did not speak to her at all up until that point, but presumably she was aware of the police investigation or th epossibility of it, as it was mentioned on her note.

Timeline of baby probe​

2013: Two babies die on Countess of Chester Hospital’s neonatal unit.
2014: A further three babies die at the unit.
JUNE 2015 to JULY 2016: 15 babies die on neonatal unit and six others suffer non-fatal collapses.
FEBRUARY: Senior doctors and nursing staff carry out a “high level” review into ten neonatal deaths at the hospital.
JUNE: Hospital bosses ask the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health to investigate why the number of deaths on its neonatal unit had increased.
JULY: Chiefs announce that gravely-ill babies will be cared for at neighbouring units.
SEPTEMBER: Review team visits hospital and interviews staff.
NOVEMBER: RCPCH publishes report making 24 recommendations.
MAY 2017: Hospital asks Cheshire Police to investigate 15 baby deaths and six non-fatal baby collapses. Operation Hummingbird is launched.
YESTERDAY: Female healthcare worker is arrested on suspicion of murder of eight babies and attempted murder of a further six infants.
Cheshire Police also reveal the scope of the investigation has been widened to 17 baby deaths and 15 non-fatal collapses between March 2015 and July 2016.

Nurse held over 8 baby murders investigated by ANOTHER hospital she worked at

A SECOND hospital is investigating a nurse at the centre of a police probe into the suspected murder of eight babies in Chester. Liverpool Women’s Hospital said today it is assisting detectiv…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

It’s forget.

So the full sentence might be
"police investigation forget slander discrimination victimisation"
or just simply
"police investigation forget"

Neither version makes an awful lot of sense tbf.

 

[katydid23]

I think (whether guilty or innocent) her texts showed a manipulative side when she'd been trying to get back into Room 1 after Baby A's death.

The other examples of possible manipulation depend on whether or not she's guilty so it's hard to say for sure. For example her talk of fate, and her throwing in the longwinded explanation about how one little thing could tip a baby over the edge - both are manipulative if she was responsible for the deaths and collapses, but obviously aren't if she isn't. If she's guilty then I think she is incredibly manipulative. "Trust me I'm a nurse".

Agreed, that if she is Guilty of the alleged attacks, she is incredibly manipulative. Especially when dealing with the grieving parents, and bathing the dead children and 'comforting' the families. If she is Guilty of the alleged murders, that behaviour would be pathologically manipulative, imo.

Also, her possible tampering with the times and data on the babies handover notes, is manipulative and deceptive, allegedly.

So is her alleged attempt at diagnosing the ailing babies, in the texts between her and her colleagues, if. in fact she was the perpetrator. That was pretty manipulative, considering the alleged circumstances. JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

So the full sentence might be
"police investigation forget slander discrimination victimisation"
or just simply
"police investigation forget"

Neither version makes an awful lot of sense tbf.

Yeh that’s it, the first sentence makes more sense Contextually. It also matches the way she writes the letter t in other words on the note. The entire note doesn’t make sense really, in my mind can be explained by someone outpouring nonsensical emotionally driven thoughts onto paper.

 

[katydid23]

Is it just me or are they not being as clear as they normally are when reporting on Baby H. Might just be me , after having a break following the updates since December tbf.

This is just speculation on my part----but I wonder if allegedly, LL was getting nervous about the 'talk' going around connecting her to the run of bad luck in the unit.

Her earliest alleged assaults were pretty simple and straight forward, compared to this one on baby H. I'm wondering if she was attempting, allegedly, to obfuscate, deflect and be more circumspect in this case ?

If this was the first and only case, probably no charges would have been brought because it is not seemingly as straight forward and unexpected. JMO

 

[JosieJo]

I've been so busy this week ..can anyone explain the baptism disagreement? Was LL involved? ..and the bitchiness comment? Thanks

 

[katydid23]

I kind of think it would be irrelevant in the mind of LL were she fully aware that she was guilty of murdering and harming babies in her care. If she did know that and was trying to avoid suspicion she simply would not have written it at all Or if she had it would have been disposed of immediately after writing it. That would be more fitting for a deceitful person Knowing her own culpability And knowing she was under investigation Which she would have known at this point in time.

“Letby was told on Thursday that police had recovered several handwritten documents from her home after her arrest in July 2018. On one note shown to the jury, headlined “Not good enough,” she wrote: “I will never have children or marry. I will never know what it’s like to have a family” and “I can’t breathe.”

“Letby was moved from the neonatal ward in June 2016, the court heard, after consultants suspected “that the deaths and life-threatening collapses of these 17 children were not medically explicable” and were the result of “the actions of Lucy Letby”. She was moved to clerical duties where she would not come into contact with children, Johnson said.”

“Letby was eventually removed from the neonatal ward in June 2016 – four months after a senior doctor had started to connect her to unexplained deaths and collapses, the trial has heard. In that four-month period she is alleged to have murdered two brothers from a set of triplets and to have attempted to kill five other babies.”

Lucy Letby: police found note saying ‘I killed them on purpose’, court hears

Nurse accused of murdering seven babies on neonatal ward also wrote ‘I am a horrible evil person’, jury told

www.theguardian.com

As to the bolded portion above, I am not sure we can look at this so logically or rationally.

What you say is true if the person you describe is thinking clearly---of course they would never write " I am Guilty, I did this" and then leave the confession in their desk drawer.

However, if an allegedly guilty person is coping with the weight of 15 tiny victims, and all that an upcoming trial may bring, then they may not be thinking rationally or acting logically or calmly. So doing something so irrational and damaging does make more sense. JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

I've been so busy this week ..can anyone explain the baptism disagreement? Was LL involved? ..and the bitchiness comment? Thanks

Hope not too busy. The disagreement about the baptism relates to whether or not it was appropriate timing. I would guess it could be seen by the parents that staff were kind of preparing for the worst And certain staff thought it unnecessary at that time To give them that idea. I think.

the bitchiness is a question mark to us with no references to the actual comments made. The context is comments made to LL seniors.

“Letby responds to Ms Griffiths: "Thank you. That's really nice to hear as I gather you are aware of some of the not so positive comments that have been made recently regarding my role which I have found quite upsetting.

"Our job is a pleasure to do & just hope I do the best for the babies & their Family. Thank you to you & [another colleague] for your support X".


Letby messages her colleague: "Im still frustrated/upset with what's gone on but don't think such rubbish nights & being tired help"

Her colleague responds: "Good reply as it's important they know about the bitchiness which is all it is. Yes re tired..."

The colleague added: "Anyway. You're a star. You e done yourself proud. You've given positive memories to the family whatever the outcome. Let's hope they can tease her in a few yrs about her 'attention seeking' ways. Sleep well. Xx”

Lucy Letby: Nurse 'commended' for work during 'stressful situation'

TEXT messages recovered from Lucy Letby's phone show the baby murder-accused nurse was commended for her "hard work" during a busy time at…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

As to the bolded portion above, I am not sure we can look at this so logically or rationally.

What you say is true if the person you describe is thinking clearly---of course they would never write " I am Guilty, I did this" and then leave the confession in their desk drawer.

However, if an allegedly guilty person is coping with the weight of 15 tiny victims, and all that an upcoming trial may bring, then they may not be thinking rationally or acting logically or calmly. So doing something so irrational and damaging does make more sense. JMO

I would agree but I’m not sure something written in a time of great duress should be taken without a pinch of salt.

 

[Sundial]

So the full sentence might be
"police investigation forget slander discrimination victimisation"
or just simply
"police investigation forget"

Neither version makes an awful lot of sense tbf.

I read it as: although she is being questioned/investigated, this is an internal dialogue with herself, thinking something like;
Police forget the slander, victimisation and discrimination -towards me.
Perhaps this would seem a likely thing for her to think given the conversations where other colleagues were not happy with her role, her performance?

We do get a sense that whilst people were noticing things, stating things were wrong/off with these nights and the babies, there was “bitchiness”, she appears unhappy at the unit. Things being said about or maybe even directly to her? Is some of it all genuine work-place bitchiness, OR are people genuinely raising concern and it’s gotten bitchy. I can see how some might portray that as slander in some way.

Could the note therefore imply whilst they police are investigating these cases against HER, that she’s stating they seem to forget the negative things she’s experienced by THEM (some of her colleagues)?
I’d be interested to hear more of the conversation between the baptism and the other colleagues. If it was blown up out of proportion, it does make you wonder (aside from the unit being busy that night), what was actually said or at least by whom.
JMO

 

[Anxala]

LL remains as elusive as ever and will likely continue to do so since it seems highly unlikely we'll ever get to hear from her.
We're no closer to understanding or knowing who (and what) she is now than we were at the beginning of this trial.

It's frustrating and fascinating in equal measure, that her character, the essence of her, continues to be so difficult to read/pin down. I can't think of any case I've ever come across/followed where the defendant remains so absent.

Grateful thanks as ever to all who're doing the heavy 'updates' lifting. Sterling and much appreciated work.

 

[Supernovae]

The defence are making mincemeat of the witnesses today.

I think it just is a very weak case. One of the weakest, if not the weakest of the lot.