• #21
  • #22
The father and older child were on vacation? Seems weird to me they go on vacation and leave the rest behind.


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Maybe a bit of special time for the eldest, who didn't have the special needs of her siblings so might have sometimes had a little less time with parents than the others?

I read in one article the family had recently returned from the US; a vacation, I think?
 
  • #23
  • #24
Gary Clarence has arrived back in the UK with his mother and siblings. He's reported to be in a total state of shock and had no clue Tania was feeling under pressure or struggling to cope. Max, Ben and Olivia were last seen by neighbours Easter Sunday, looking happy.

Police were called after nobody could contact mother Tania for 24 hours.

Gary Clarence's family are well known entrepeneurs in SA apparently, and are still grieving over the recent and sudden death of Gary's father.

The family spokesman is Lloyd Marshall.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...amas-mother-dead-24-hours-police-arrived.html
 
  • #25
The father and older child were on vacation? Seems weird to me they go on vacation and leave the rest behind.


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I guess it was supposed to be some sort of treat for the eldest, who would be easier to look after just on her own. :(
 
  • #26
Tania Clarence has been charged with the murder of her three year old twins, Max and Ben, and her four year old daughter, Olivia. She'll make a brief appearance in court tomorrow but I don't think a plea will be entered then.

The children's post mortems are 'ongoing'.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-malden-deaths-tania-clarence-3452729

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-27151343

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dren-murdered-mother-Tania-flies-Britain.html
This is a picture of the paramedics who found the children, when they returned to pay tribute. I really feel for them. They must be heartbroken they couldn't save the poor little souls.
 

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  • #27
  • #28
There seems to be the suggestion out there that because the children were likely to have died young, paralyzed and unable to breath, what happened to them is somehow understandable, even justifiable?

I think, if reports they were suffocated prove true, it was a wicked thing to do. Dying in a hospice naturally with pain management when a child cannot breathe is hard enough. Suffocation is just horrible.

ETA: In my opinion. I am not very good at discrimination. I tend to think people of all shapes/sizes/colours and abilities have the same right to life as everyone else.
 
  • #29
ETA: In my opinion. I am not very good at discrimination. I tend to think people of all shapes/sizes/colours and abilities have the same right to life as everyone else.
We do. A lot of people don't think about it too much because they don't have disabilities themselves, but for people with a disability, it's their everyday normal. People assume that living with a disability must be something like suddenly losing that ability themselves--that, for example, a blind person must be as lost and frightened as a sighted person lost in the dark. But that's not the case; people adapt. People find their own happiness. If you can't see, then hear. If you can't move, then think. If your brain is on the fritz, love with your heart.

I won't deny that disability can produce suffering. Goodness knows I've been in shutdown mode, or been completely confused, or been unable to get the words out, and that's not pleasant--but there are unpleasant parts of a life without a disability, too--breaking up with a boyfriend, getting stuck in traffic, losing a parent. When there's pain and sadness in somebody's life, we should help that person, support them through it.

To kill someone just because they are disabled is the worst sort of hate crime. It's saying, "Your life is not worth living, and you don't have the right to decide for yourself what you want to do with it. Your greatest joys are not worth experiencing; your deepest loves are irrelevant. Because you are disabled, I have decided that you are a burden, and what you think of yourself does not matter, because it is my opinion, not yours, that is real and relevant. It is my values and my experiences that matter--not yours. In fact, you are not really a person at all. You are an obstacle. You are the changeling that took my real, healthy child. You are an un-person without potential, and I am better off without you."
 
  • #30
"Police said she had suffered minor injuries and was taken to hospital but was later discharged and arrested on suspicion of murder."

Minor injuries, huh? I hope those kids fought back. I hope they hurt her. I hope they smashed her into the wall with their wheelchairs. She deserved every ounce of pain and then some.

I have two friends with similar disorders--progressive muscular weakness, different types of muscular dystrophy, with both of them now using wheelchairs and needing daily assistance. They're both graduate students, one in history and the other in psychology. They're happy. Their lives are as fulfilling as anyone else's. Their life expectancies are shorter than the average person's, and yeah, it's a progressive disability--but they're just living their lives, like anybody.

That article's all whining about how they had to make their house wheelchair accessible and how much it cost and what the kids needed... I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Kids take money and kids take time and that's true whether they're disabled or not. If somebody complained about needing to change a baby's diaper or take a kid to school or cook dinner for them, and then killed the children because taking care of them was "such a burden", we'd call them monstrous. But when the child's disabled, oh, hey, they're a saint for even allowing the child to exist at all! Too bad it got so tough, totally understandable that they resorted to murder! Nobody asks whether the child wanted to live. Nobody asks what it was like to know your parents thought so little of your worth that they decided to kill you--the fear, the pain, the betrayal. Oh, no, they just talk about how hard it is to raise a disabled child. Shortened life expectancy is no excuse, either. Say those kids had twenty years to live--does that make it okay to, say, kill a healthy sixty-year-old? No? Then it's not okay to kill children with a disability that'll shorten their lives. If anything, a shorter life makes the time they have that much more precious.

I want to grab that reporter, shake them, and give them a piece of my mind. People who kill children--especially their own, disabled, children--should not be excused like that.

That was a difficult post to read. A lot of judgement there.

I am absolutely not going to judge.

All I feel is sadness. Nothing beyond total sadness for each and every one of that family. Including the beautiful babies' mother.
 
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  • #33
I think what prosecutors said this morning may prove important; that they believe the children were killed sometime between Sunday and Tuesday.

I'm presuming that is not meant to suggest the children were killed over a period of days, but rather that they haven't been able to establish yet, exactly when they died.

The family were reported to have a nanny and a maid. Even if they had weekends off, I would have thought they would be back to work at the home Monday and would have sounded the alarm when there was no reply? So it is making me wonder why police were not called until Tuesday, and if perhaps the staff had been given an extra day off, that week?

The reason I think it could be so important, is that it could imply planning in advance; ie, premeditation.
 
  • #34
If police don't know exactly when the children died, does that mean the mother isn't co-operating with police, and hasn't made a statement?
 
  • #35
'There will be a bail application April 29th.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-malden-children-tania-clarence-3455146

Her full name is Tania Kim Clarence, a graphic designer (though she had opted to be a stay at home mum and was not working outside the home).
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/25/mother-accused-killing-three-children-tania-clarence

The Citizen has an interview with the mother of a child who also suffered from SMA.
http://citizen.co.za/165559/mom-tells-of-heartache/

Going by previous, similar cases, I don't think bail will be granted because of:
The seriousness of the charges
Clarence having strong links abroad
The safety and welfare of her remaining child
 
  • #36
  • #37
I think what prosecutors said this morning may prove important; that they believe the children were killed sometime between Sunday and Tuesday.

The family were reported to have a nanny and a maid. Even if they had weekends off, I would have thought they would be back to work at the home Monday and would have sounded the alarm when there was no reply? So it is making me wonder why police were not called until Tuesday, and if perhaps the staff had been given an extra day off, that week?

The reason I think it could be so important, is that it could imply planning in advance; ie, premeditation.

It's the Easter holidays weekend. Granted, with 3 special needs children, it seems unlikely that the mother would have granted leave to both nanny and maid. But then, everything might have appeared hunky dory to the house helps. That is, they didn't raise an eyebrow when both of them were given time off as it was Easter.
 
  • #38
The Monday was a bank holiday, so Nanny and Maid may well have had the day off.
 
  • #39
  • #40

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