GUILTY UK - Paige Doherty, 15, Clydebank, 19 March 2016

[mrazda71]

Yes, it's maddening he could have had any woman of his choosing in his position nearly and yet he has to go after a child. Sicko


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Yes!!! some idiots were sharing a photo of his stunning fiance and mother of his child (well, ex fiance now, good on her!) Wrongly - Saying 'I don't blame Aj when this is what the 15 year old 'victim' looks like, I would do her too' ... i've seen a photo of the victim and she very much looks like a very young girl, not a glamour model at all, just an average pretty child. This is the kind of world we live in sadly ... I can't think of any scenario where Paige would go to buy food and then end up dead other than the sexual motive ... though I guess as more is revealed the puzzle pieces will fit together.

 

[Elainera]

It's about 10 am in Scotland. I can't find any official confirmation (yet) that JL was arrested.

This new article gives a few more details though about what happened that Saturday morning:

Witnesses have told detectives that Johnny Leathem pulled down the shutters of the Delicious Deli on Fleming Avenue, Clydebank, around 8.25am last Saturday morning, less than ten minutes after the teenager went there to buy a roll and sausage.

The shopkeeper then drove off in his van and did not return until 9.30am.

Detectives were last night trying to establish what happened during that time.

Among those believed to have been quizzed rigorously on Wednesday was Ashy Ahmed, owner of the Fleming Foodstore, next door to the deli.

snip

One local, who asked not to be named, said: “Ashy was in for at least three hours with the police. He was one of the last known persons to see Paige alive.

“He has told people that he definitely saw Johnny’s van drive off then come back just over an hour later. He didn’t think anything about it at the time but the police seem very interested in his account of things.

snip

“Other people have been asked to remember when the shutters went down and how long for.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...-deli-owner-whose-7619473#I6g8jBXB2HoEadx5.99


I was wondering, when LE first appealed to the public for information about Paige's movements that morning, maybe they got calls from people who'd seen her before she went to the shops, but none who'd seen her after she allegedly bought the sausage roll. So they decided to check out the deli a bit more. Since the investigation and cordoning off of the deli seems to have happened quite fast, within less than 48 hours, I think maybe JL broke down and confessed when questioned more thoroughly. jmo


It's odd that apparently Paige went into his shop at around 8.15 am and he shut it down at 8.25 and drove off, returning about an hour later and reopening the shop. So, if she was killed inside the shop he obviously did not move her body and cleaned up the shop then. So, did she in fact leave the shop and he followed her? This seems more likely now. (I first thought she must have been killed inside the deli, assuming the shop was closed the whole day.)


Hope there will be an official update soon.

 

[leep]

Yes!!! some idiots were sharing a photo of his stunning fiance and mother of his child (well, ex fiance now, good on her!) Wrongly - Saying 'I don't blame Aj when this is what the 15 year old 'victim' looks like, I would do her too' ... i've seen a photo of the victim and she very much looks like a very young girl, not a glamour model at all, just an average pretty child. This is the kind of world we live in sadly ... I can't think of any scenario where Paige would go to buy food and then end up dead other than the sexual motive ... though I guess as more is revealed the puzzle pieces will fit together.

Wow, I'm glad I didn't see that on FB what is wrong with some people SMH.


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[Alyce]

THE DELI owner whose shop has been cordoned off by police hunting the killer of Paige Doherty shut up his store and drove off just after the teenager was last spotted, the Record can reveal.

Witnesses have told detectives that Johnny Leathem pulled down the shutters of the Delicious Deli on Fleming Avenue, Clydebank, around 8.25am last Saturday morning, less than ten minutes after the teenager went there to buy a roll and sausage.
The shopkeeper then drove off in his van and did not return until 9.30am.


Read more at http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...-deli-owner-whose-7619473#S2RX2qFsxeFFC0Fs.99



I presume this is just the small bit of info the press have. Surely they would not arrest someone for simply closing for an hour. Wonder if the witnesses are also sure that Paige never left the shop ?


Sorry, just seen Elainera has already posted this - am not fully awake this morning after last night !

 

[Really?]

Wow.....can't believe how this has progressed.

Someone on here early on said to look into the shop owner(s). Buy a sandwich (roll) and end up dead.

 

[stacemcace]

I've been away for work so just catching up. This case has moved so fast, thankfully! I see there's no official statement from Police Scotland yet but I think they won't say anything until around midday, maybe later. Thank goodness for Ashy speaking out. I did think something had happened straight after her visiting the deli since her phone hadn't been used after this but I expected she had been picked up. I see there's mention of Paige running away before but I think it was more that she stayed out after she was supposed and her parents couldn't find her rather than running away imo

 

[ColourPurple]

It's about 10 am in Scotland. I can't find any official confirmation (yet) that JL was arrested.

This new article gives a few more details though about what happened that Saturday morning:






http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...-deli-owner-whose-7619473#I6g8jBXB2HoEadx5.99


I was wondering, when LE first appealed to the public for information about Paige's movements that morning, maybe they got calls from people who'd seen her before she went to the shops, but none who'd seen her after she allegedly bought the sausage roll. So they decided to check out the deli a bit more. Since the investigation and cordoning off of the deli seems to have happened quite fast, within less than 48 hours, I think maybe JL broke down and confessed when questioned more thoroughly. jmo


It's odd that apparently Paige went into his shop at around 8.15 am and he shut it down at 8.25 and drove off, returning about an hour later and reopening the shop. So, if she was killed inside the shop he obviously did not move her body and cleaned up the shop then. So, did she in fact leave the shop and he followed her? This seems more likely now. (I first thought she must have been killed inside the deli, assuming the shop was closed the whole day.)


Hope there will be an official update soon.

So unless AA is lying JL was definitely at the shop that morning so would know whether Paige bought breakfast there, so that "I don't know" answer is just odd. It's not like the place would've been packed at that time of morning. Paige's sleepover friend's family have confirmed that she said she was going for a roll and sausage before catching her bus so she'd have either gone to AAs or JLs. I suppose it's possible that it's a Chris Jeffries type situation where the real culprit is pointing the finger at somebody else but I tend to believe AA, and JL's reaction to the simple question of whether Paige bought breakfast that morning is suspicious .

It looks like there are three possible scenarios
1. Something happened in the shop and JL killed Paige there then moved her body somewhere in his van (or he abducted her from the shop and took her elsewhere to kill her).
2. JL agreed to give Paige a lift to work, (either that morning or agreed before hand) and he killed her during the lift.
3. JL followed Paige after she left and then either offered her a lift or bundled her into his van

If it was usual for Paige to walk that way on a Saturday morning he could have been watching her for weeks and maybe even planning what to do. With social media these days he could have been "stalking" her and downloading pics of her without her knowing too.

 

[pinklilies]

Why pull the shutters down if you're only going to be an hour?
Why not just lock the doors? It was daylight at that time.
Wonder if there was something to see from outside, looking in.
Unless it's normal to pull the shutters every time you leave the premises.

 

[Elainera]

Or, another possibility, did she leave with JL in his van alive (unnoticed by witnesses)?

ETA: I see it's already mentioned above.

 

[Alyce]

It's odd that apparently Paige went into his shop at around 8.15 am and he shut it down at 8.25 and drove off, returning about an hour later and reopening the shop. So, if she was killed inside the shop he obviously did not move her body and cleaned up the shop then. So, did she in fact leave the shop and he followed her? This seems more likely now. (I first thought she must have been killed inside the deli, assuming the shop was closed the whole day.)


Hope there will be an official update soon.

RSBM

I find it astonishing ( although I know anything is possible ) that Paige entered the Deli at approx 8.15-20am and by 8.25am something had happened.

Like you Elainera, I at first thought the Deli had been closed all day, but now it appears it was just an hour's closure.

I also initially thought, perhaps JL closed the Deli so that he could follow Paige.....
but it is the line about closed the shutters which makes me think something happened very fast in there.
Surely most people would just turn the sign to Closed if they were nipping out - and many shops would probably also add a handwritten note saying Back in an Hour, or something like that. Particularly as this was a Saturday morning so the Deli was likely to be busy with trade.

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes!!! some idiots were sharing a photo of his stunning fiance and mother of his child (well, ex fiance now, good on her!) Wrongly - Saying 'I don't blame Aj when this is what the 15 year old 'victim' looks like, I would do her too' ... i've seen a photo of the victim and she very much looks like a very young girl, not a glamour model at all, just an average pretty child. This is the kind of world we live in sadly ... I can't think of any scenario where Paige would go to buy food and then end up dead other than the sexual motive ... though I guess as more is revealed the puzzle pieces will fit together.

It was such a frustrating case, with some people deciding the girl was equally guilty for being "up for it". How his family can support him and start up appeal pages I do not know. The messages made it clear that he knew straight away she was underage and that he was the one that was trying to pursue something sexual, when she was happy enough with a signed football shirt. Aargh!

 

[GlasgowGirl86]

From what we've heard although she had disappeared before, she seemed settled in so much as she had a boyfriend, a part time job and her school said she had her future career plotted out and was looking forward to leaving school to start work full time. If she was 16 next month, is it June she would have left school in Scotland?

In Scotland you can leave school at 15 as a Christmas leaver rather than an end of term leaver (in June) there has to be certain circumstances met such as having a college placement or an apprenticeship placement with a company, there are not a massive amount of people who do leave at 15 but it's not hugely uncommon here. My husband left at 15.

 

[Elainera]

So unless AA is lying JL was definitely at the shop that morning so would know whether Paige bought breakfast there, so that "I don't know" answer is just odd. It's not like the place would've been packed at that time of morning. Paige's sleepover friend's family have confirmed that she said she was going for a roll and sausage before catching her bus so she'd have either gone to AAs or JLs. I suppose it's possible that it's a Chris Jeffries type situation where the real culprit is pointing the finger at somebody else but I tend to believe AA, and JL's reaction to the simple question of whether Paige bought breakfast that morning is suspicious .

It looks like there are three possible scenarios
1. Something happened in the shop and JL killed Paige there then moved her body somewhere in his van (or he abducted her from the shop and took her elsewhere to kill her).
2. JL agreed to give Paige a lift to work, (either that morning or agreed before hand) and he killed her during the lift.
3. JL followed Paige after she left and then either offered her a lift or bundled her into his van

If it was usual for Paige to walk that way on a Saturday morning he could have been watching her for weeks and maybe even planning what to do. With social media these days he could have been "stalking" her and downloading pics of her without her knowing too.

bbm - I think locals here have confirmed that AA (Ashy) does not sell roll and sausages, it's more like a grocery/newspaper kind of shop. If she wanted rolls and sausages she would have definitely gone into the deli.

I'm thinking it's quite likely this was planned by JL, or it was prearranged by Paige and JL to give her a lift.

Maybe JL thought he could establish some kind of alibi by shutting down his shop for a while. ("I wasn't even there, people saw me leave" or something.)

 

[GlasgowGirl86]

So the motive must be sexual what else would JL want with a 15 year old girl to have to silence her but looking at his SM I don't get a creepy vibe from him.


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Not sure if this is allowed so please let me know if I need to remove....talk of how friendly certain staff members were with young customers at the Deli is rife at the moment.

 

[mrazda71]

It was such a frustrating case, with some people deciding the girl was equally guilty for being "up for it". How his family can support him and start up appeal pages I do not know. The messages made it clear that he knew straight away she was underage and that he was the one that was trying to pursue something sexual, when she was happy enough with a signed football shirt. Aargh!

Exactly! If he were my relative, I would still care for him but I'd publicly say that I was disgusted by his actions or at worst say nothing at all! His sister is as deluded as Chad Evans fiance!!! Can't wait to see Johnson's sentence today ... is it just me, or does your average child abuser not get 3 weeks freedom to say goodbye to family and throw parties?

There's some interesting comments to be read on social media about Mr Delicious Deli ...

Have to add - I've read 1 horrible comment from someone who'd got the very wrong end of the stick and suggested that the 'black b****** should never of been in this country' - thankfully lots of people soon put him straight BUT I've seen lots of posts commenting on 'lovely wee Ashy' ...

 

[ColourPurple]

In Scotland you can leave school at 15 as a Christmas leaver rather than an end of term leaver (in June) there has to be certain circumstances met such as having a college placement or an apprenticeship placement with a company, there are not a massive amount of people who do leave at 15 but it's not hugely uncommon here. My husband left at 15.

I guess some still leave at 15 here if their birthdays are in July or August but most are 16.

 

[ColourPurple]

RSBM

I find it astonishing ( although I know anything is possible ) that Paige entered the Deli at approx 8.15-20am and by 8.25am something had happened.

Like you Elainera, I at first thought the Deli had been closed all day, but now it appears it was just an hour's closure.

I also initially thought, perhaps JL closed the Deli so that he could follow Paige.....
but it is the line about closed the shutters which makes me think something happened very fast in there.
Surely most people would just turn the sign to Closed if they were nipping out - and many shops would probably also add a handwritten note saying Back in an Hour, or something like that. Particularly as this was a Saturday morning so the Deli was likely to be busy with trade.

I think it would depend what the level of crime is like around there. In a high crime area I'd lock the shutters and I guess it might even be part of their insurance to have to have the shutters closed if the building is unoccupied.

 

[Elainera]

RSBM

I find it astonishing ( although I know anything is possible ) that Paige entered the Deli at approx 8.15-20am and by 8.25am something had happened.

Like you Elainera, I at first thought the Deli had been closed all day, but now it appears it was just an hour's closure.

I also initially thought, perhaps JL closed the Deli so that he could follow Paige.....
but it is the line about closed the shutters which makes me think something happened very fast in there.
Surely most people would just turn the sign to Closed if they were nipping out - and many shops would probably also add a handwritten note saying Back in an Hour, or something like that. Particularly as this was a Saturday morning so the Deli was likely to be busy with trade.

Yes the time is very short for something to have happened but I could imagine something like him coming onto her, she backing away, he grabs a knife, she panics and struggles, he panics and stabs her. Could all happen in 5 minutes imo.

But, an hour later he's back and reopens the shop, so who cleaned up and where's the body? This is what doesn't fit anymore with the theory that the murder took place at ~8.20 inside the shop imo.

How large is the shop on the inside? Are there storage rooms, large freezers, etc?

 

[ChuckieD]

Maybe this has been something he has thinking about for some time. Maybe he doesn't usually work alone and the opportunity came up and he took it? Staff calling in sick or something? Humans are creatures of habit. I know my routine is the same everyday. Get the bus to the station, pop in the little coffee shop and get a coffee before walking over to my connection bus. I see the same few people every morning who also do the same thing every morning like one guy gets a roll from the bakery and eats it at the same time I'm stood drinking my coffee.

Poor Paige. She must have been so frightened.

 

[ColourPurple]

Exactly! If he were my relative, I would still care for him but I'd publicly say that I was disgusted by his actions or at worst say nothing at all! His sister is as deluded as Chad Evans fiance!!! Can't wait to see Johnson's sentence today ... is it just me, or does your average child abuser not get 3 weeks freedom to say goodbye to family and throw parties?

There's some interesting comments to be read on social media about Mr Delicious Deli ...

Have to add - I've read 1 horrible comment from someone who'd got the very wrong end of the stick and suggested that the 'black b****** should never of been in this country' - thankfully lots of people soon put him straight BUT I've seen lots of posts commenting on 'lovely wee Ashy' ...

There's always one!

As for AJ's 3 weeks freedom, I suppose with the media spotlight on him it meant he wasn't a flight risk but the judge could have sentenced him that day so I think he was very lucky to get 3 weeks to spend with his daughter.