UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002

[Spartygirl]

I thought each of those groomed girls were offered more money to bring other girls to JE and GM? Every one of those girls was brainwashed IMO because they were vulnerable and easily influenced. Isn’t that the whole point of the grooming and predatory process when adults prey on young people? For instance, GM making it seem like such a grand, exciting surprise that VG got to meet PA. VG was groomed to believe she was special “to get” to spend time with so-called famous or influential people. How would any of them been able to make rational decisions amidst all of the abuse that was going on? I can’t even imagine how any of those girls felt they had other choices in the moment it was happening. It seemed only after VG “got away” from their grasp in Thailand that she was then able to see it for what it truly was, and then she was able to make a better choice and not go back. MOO.

EXACTLY !!!!
I agree 1000%

 

[UK Girl]

and yet..Carolynn who lived that life...was part of it all has clearly said that VG is as bad as GM. One thing I dont understand if JE liked young girls why did she tell her not to tell them how old she was?

 

[Legally Bland]

SARAH VINE: Prince Andrew's an oaf - but his accuser has questions to answer too | Daily Mail Online

What a horrible opinion piece. It's been known for years that VRG has openly admitted recruiting girls. I am in no way criticising Carolyn, but she also recruited girls for Epstein. She's entitled to her view of VRG but I see them both as victims. I think the prosecution described it best as to why victims recruited other girls, it was a "pyramid scheme of abuse."

The pile on against VRG only serves PA and Dershowitz and I think it's only right that these questions are resolved. Wherever the chips may fall.

What we have at the moment are attempts to criminalise a victim. The reason why VRG has never been charged with regards to her involvement is because she is recognised as a victim of sex trafficking. It's not because of the NPA, or some legal loophole, it's because she's a victim.

Some people really need to give their heads a good shake.

 

[Lilibet]

What a horrible opinion piece. It's been known for years that VRG has openly admitted recruiting girls. I am in no way criticising Carolyn, but she also recruited girls for Epstein. She's entitled to her view of VRG but I see them both as victims. I think the prosecution described it best as to why victims recruited other girls, it was a "pyramid scheme of abuse."

The pile on against VRG only serves PA and Dershowitz and I think it's only right that these questions are resolved. Wherever the chips may fall.

What we have at the moment are attempts to criminalise a victim. The reason why VRG has never been charged with regards to her involvement is because she is recognised as a victim of sex trafficking. It's not because of the NPA, or some legal loophole, it's because she's a victim.

Some people really need to give their heads a good shake.

Good post. I totally agree. Thanks! I really wish people like this writer would try to understand the psychology of being a victim of sexual abuse and trafficking. Perhaps the victims themselves don’t even understand the mind-games they’ve been subjected to.

 

[Legally Bland]

Perhaps the victims themselves don’t even understand the mind-games they’ve been subjected to.

RSBM.

I think you may have a very valid point. The recent libel suit against VRG by Rita Oh would support this.

Jeffrey Epstein accuser Rita Oh files lawsuit against Virginia Giuffre for 'defaming' her in tweets | Daily Mail Online

 

[investikater]

RO accused JE and GM of doing similar things to what VRG and CA accused them of.

RO, VRG and CA all claim to be victims and not perpetrators.

VRG accused RO of doing similar things that CA has accused VRG of doing.

VRG claimed RO should be prosecuted and imprisoned.

CA now claims VRG should be prosecuted and imprisoned.

 

[Dotta]

Fighting among victims is a bad sign.
"Divide and conquer" comes to mind.

 

[UK Girl]

I thought each of those groomed girls were offered more money to bring other girls to JE and GM? Every one of those girls was brainwashed IMO because they were vulnerable and easily influenced. Isn’t that the whole point of the grooming and predatory process when adults prey on young people? For instance, GM making it seem like such a grand, exciting surprise that VG got to meet PA. VG was groomed to believe she was special “to get” to spend time with so-called famous or influential people. How would any of them been able to make rational decisions amidst all of the abuse that was going on? I can’t even imagine how any of those girls felt they had other choices in the moment it was happening. It seemed only after VG “got away” from their grasp in Thailand that she was then able to see it for what it truly was, and then she was able to make a better choice and not go back. MOO.

the problem is..you said VRG moved away and was able to see it for what it truly was but wouldnt that also apply to Carolynn? that she can see it for what it was? but that she doesnt believe VRG was coerced to have sex with Andrew?

 

[UK Girl]

RO accused JE and GM of doing similar things to what VRG and CA accused them of.

RO, VRG and CA all claim to be victims and not perpetrators.

VRG accused RO of doing similar things that CA has accused VRG of doing.

VRG claimed RO should be prosecuted and imprisoned.



CA now claims VRG should be prosecuted and imprisoned.

I am curious as too what Carolynn might say about the relationship between VRG and Epstein and Maxwell

 

[investikater]

Fighting among victims is a bad sign.
"Divide and conquer" comes to mind.

Yes

This is happening to a large extent because JE "commited suicide".

If that hadn't happened,
if prison authorities had done their jobs properly,
everyone would be united in going after JE.

When that was done, possibly there would be more fallout, possibly not.

Perhaps something we could contrast this all to is NXIVM?

 

[Forest_Wood]

the problem is..you said VRG moved away and was able to see it for what it truly was but wouldnt that also apply to Carolynn? that she can see it for what it was? but that she doesnt believe VRG was coerced to have sex with Andrew?

Aren’t all young people easily excited with opportunties to meet or be noticed by celebrities though? Just look at rock concerts as one example. The coercion happened long before PA was brought over to have sex with VG. It began when GM and JE first recruited VG to be used solely as a sex object for themselves and others. Can you see that VG was groomed, just as C was groomed?

I believe C was as much a victim/survivor as VG in the criminal sexual trafficking enterprise of GM and JE.

Every one of these girls in their youth was manipulated for sexual exploitation, which in turn distorted their entire view of life. I don’t know if C ever recruited other girls too, but at what point does the blaming between the victims/survivors stop? It just illustrates the extent of the damage caused by the likes of JE, GM, and others in high places.

Those who were benefiting from the exploitation of young, vulnerable girls need to be held accountable. MOO.

 

[UK Girl]

Aren’t all young people easily excited with opportunties to meet or be noticed by celebrities though? Just look at rock concerts as one example. The coercion happened long before PA was brought over to have sex with VG. It began when GM and JE first recruited VG to be used solely as a sex object for themselves and others. Can you see that VG was groomed, just as C was groomed?

I believe C was as much a victim/survivor as VG in the criminal sexual trafficking enterprise of GM and JE.

Every one of these girls in their youth was manipulated for sexual exploitation, which in turn distorted their entire view of life. I don’t know if C ever recruited other girls too, but at what point does the blaming between the victims/survivors stop? It just illustrates the extent of the damage caused by the likes of JE, GM, and others in high places.

Those who were benefiting from the exploitation of young, vulnerable girls need to be held accountable. MOO.

OFC i believe Carolynn was a victim. I really do. However I also believe her words are important as she lived it.

 

[Forest_Wood]

OFC i believe Carolynn was a victim. I really do. However I also believe her words are important as she lived it.

Yes, of course each of their words are important as each of them lived with horrific abuse. What does OFC mean?

 

[UK Girl]

Yes, of course each of their words are important as each of them lived with horrific abuse. What does OFC mean?

I am sorry OFC means of course

 

[Vern]

I thought each of those groomed girls were offered more money to bring other girls to JE and GM? Every one of those girls was brainwashed IMO because they were vulnerable and easily influenced. Isn’t that the whole point of the grooming and predatory process when adults prey on young people? For instance, GM making it seem like such a grand, exciting surprise that VG got to meet PA. VG was groomed to believe she was special “to get” to spend time with so-called famous or influential people. How would any of them been able to make rational decisions amidst all of the abuse that was going on? I can’t even imagine how any of those girls felt they had other choices in the moment it was happening. It seemed only after VG “got away” from their grasp in Thailand that she was then able to see it for what it truly was, and then she was able to make a better choice and not go back. MOO.

But only a couple of those groomed girls actually took the money and continued the circle & cycle of abuse. Most of them had the wherewithal to just say, "no".

If that were a legit excuse, how would we ever justify charging a child sexual abuse victim who abuses another child. Plenty of those cases on here with posters clamouring for the abusing youth to be charged as an adult and held accountable for their action. A couple of those abusers are much younger (9 & 10) than VG was (+17-22)??

I guess it goes to the saying that not all who are abused go on to continue the cycle. In this case, all those who were trafficked did not collect funds to traffic other victims themselves. A couple of them did. Where's the accountability and justice for their victims?

 

[investikater]

RespectfullySnippedByMe:

[...]
The reason why VRG has never been charged with regards to her involvement is because she is recognised as a victim of sex trafficking. It's not because of the NPA, or some legal loophole, it's because she's a victim.
[...]

How do you know?

 

[Dotta]

Some mistakes are very costly

Prince Andrew's legal and PR costs soar to nearly $3 million

 

[Dotta]

Royals await anxiously the fallout from Prince Andrew’s disgrace

 

[Legally Bland]

RespectfullySnippedByMe:


How do you know?

1. VRG was identified as a victim by the Department of Justice

Exhibit Exhibit 1 – #21, Att. #1 in Giuffre v. Maxwell (S.D.N.Y., 1:15-cv-07433) – CourtListener.com

2. The Trafficking Victims Protection Act

 

[Forest_Wood]

But only a couple of those groomed girls actually took the money and continued the circle & cycle of abuse. Most of them had the wherewithal to just say, "no".

Was it reported some where that only a couple continued the cycle? I am listening to the podcasts of Broken: Seeking Justice. They interviewed Michelle, who said she never went back, and even that one time traumatized her for life. The reports are that Epstein was having 3 sexualized massages per day for decades. Only two recruited all of those girls?