GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #12

[mrazda71]

So why is it. When you think that 7 years they (SH & NM) have spent more time together than apart. NM seems to me the more 'needy' one in the relationship. I'm sure he's losing his mind not being able to talk to SH let alone hold her. Or direct her.
Why can't he bear to hear her name brought up in questioning or reviewing evidence?

Maybe it's like a recovering alcoholic or ex gambler ... they have to avoid their addiction - no pubs, no betting shop, no Shauna ... or it could be that 'seeing' her but not being able to talk to, touch/hold her is too much for him or that she's the one person he does care about and he cares what she thinks of him ...

 

[ColourPurple]

Which does she want us to believe Tortoise? So far I got :
-She was worried about all the Becky missing and she has no family intimacy so goes to Mum's
-But says she didn't tell her mum BW missing- "Nathan's issue, Nathan's problems, not mine to tell"
-She wanted closeness with her mum like the BW family had now found, but didn't even initiate a conversation with mum about BW and even when mum brings up Becky subject she does not say, well yes, that's partly why I am here after 5 years!
-And she doesn't expect Nathan to agree to the visit yet seemingly had not explained why she must go to Mums to him either ( or he would have used it surely as reasoning?)
-"I realised if I had gone there would be no one to worry where I was and be concerned about me."
-But at that point "I thought she was still alive. I just thought she would be off with her friends somewhere"

I think the conversation was probably something like:

NM. FFS we cant let the police in while the body is still here, we need to come up with a good reason for why they cant come in.
SH . We could say we're out for the night or something.
NM. And where would we go? It's not like we've got loads of friends waiting in the wings
SH. The only person I can think of is my mothers?
NM. Brilliant, that'll do. We'll say we're going out for a meal with her..
SH. Or better still that we're staying the night
NM. Yes!! Then we can sneak back and move the body
SH. But where... and what if they see your car coming back?
NM. Leave it to me...

 

[ColourPurple]

So why is it. When you think that 7 years they (SH & NM) have spent more time together than apart. NM seems to me the more 'needy' one in the relationship. I'm sure he's losing his mind not being able to talk to SH let alone hold her. Or direct her.
Why can't he bear to hear her name brought up in questioning or reviewing evidence?

See my previous reply lol. NM seems very sexually motivated and SH held the power in that part of he relationship.

Compare it to addiction, he's the addict... she's the one with the supply.

 

[cottonweaver]

I agree, I think her main motivation was they needed somewhere to go, so police couldnt search the house that night. But found it interesting to see the reason she came up with, rather than it being that she realised how her mother might be feeling about not having seen her or her daughter for years, it was all about what she wanted.

There's still definitely something "real" in your insight. Let's speculate further , imagine being in SH shoes, the neglect she has ( and want she "wants" deep down as you say) , combine that with seeing Becky at home with dad and AG for last X years, 3 days a week or whatever and you harbour building resentment and jealousy, feeding off Nathan, towards Becky.

After the crime and the vanishment, imagine her/their chagrin when the attention, tears, loss, longing is all back focussed on Becky again.:gaah:
After that they don't spend much time at AG's do they really(?)

maybe going to SH mums serves a few purposes, some less conscious? Just thinking out loud based on your obs.

 

[Ashbeck]

Going back to the bathroom being out of bounds to SH for a few days. I can sort of accept she may have been kept out under the belief the toilet was broken, I don't believe her but I think that is a situation that may possibly occur. But where did she wash? Where did she brush her teeth? Her daughters teeth? Where did NM brush his teeth?
And the biggest clue that she's lying about the bathroom to me - we know she had morning sickness, it's been mentioned several times, so where was she vomiting? We know the downstairs loo was out of use and the kitchen was too full junk to be used. Did she save that in her red lego bucket too? Did they find this bucket? A quick swab would tell whether it had traces of urine in, wouldn't it?

 

[cottonweaver]

I think the conversation was probably something like:

.

:takeabow:
that's meant to be laughing face!

 

[Tortoise]

Which does she want us to believe Tortoise? So far I got :
-She was worried about all the Becky missing and she has no family intimacy so goes to Mum's
-But says she didn't tell her mum BW missing- "Nathan's issue, Nathan's problems, not mine to tell"
-She wanted closeness with her mum like the BW family had now found, but didn't even initiate a conversation with mum about BW and even when mum brings up Becky subject she does not say, well yes, that's partly why I am here after 5 years!
-And she doesn't expect Nathan to agree to the visit yet seemingly had not explained why she must go to Mums to him either ( or he would have used it surely as reasoning?)
-"I realised if I had gone there would be no one to worry where I was and be concerned about me."
-But at that point "I thought she was still alive. I just thought she would be off with her friends somewhere"

yep, she wants us to believe all that.

she hadn't even been a party to Becky's family all coming together. they avoided all contact with the family after the Friday, so it must have been what SH viewed from the outside looking in - the appeals by DG and Becky's Nan on TV, crying for her to make contact, the facebook appeals and the police coordinating searches of waste ground and the community searches.

I imagine she did think 'would anyone care that much if I went missing' but I don't think it prompted her to visit her Mum.

They could still have gone over there after letting the police in to search their house, without having to lie about having meal plans already booked. It was a bolt-hole.

Remember SH talking about Becky in the past tense to police that week? "Becky was like a daughter to Anjie"

 

[cottonweaver]

Going back to the bathroom being out of bounds to SH for a few days. I can sort of accept she may have been kept out under the belief the toilet was broken, I don't believe her but I think that is a situation that may possibly occur. But where did she wash? Where did she brush her teeth? Her daughters teeth? Where did NM brush his teeth?
And the biggest clue that she's lying about the bathroom to me - we know she had morning sickness, it's been mentioned several times, so where was she vomiting? We know the downstairs loo was out of use and the kitchen was too full junk to be used. Did she save that in her red lego bucket too? Did they find this bucket? A quick swab would tell whether it had traces of urine in, wouldn't it?

Good point re vomit and bucket testing.
I hope they looked for/found the bucket - after all , in one news clip I saw 14 people in white forensics suits going in that house!

As for teeth and wash, I realise I will offend some posters here but they had empty yoghurt pots and tuna cans in the bathroom.......so I'm not sure if personal care and childcare were rigorous!

Anyway she said he wouldn't let her have heating, lighting, hot water and so sometimes she washed at AGs.

(I can believe that he was scary controlling for sure, obsessive about hoarding, about spending £ etc, it's poss part of the reason they spent a lot of time at AG's too - reduced their heating bills. )
But I don't believe he said to her "here, love, I'm not buying electric this week but I've got you a stun gun which you can use as a torch."

 

[Tortoise]

Re the recent discussion of where the balance of power was in the relationship. I think, although NM was controlling in some ways, where SH had the power was when it came to sex. Think about who holds the power... the one who is sexually frustrated and always wanting sex but never getting it... or the one who is witholding the sex?

I'm not sure tbh. My initial reaction was yes she has the power there, but then I thought does she really? Not if she is having to then agree to sex she isn't comfortable with and spotting suitable victims for their fantasy / plan.

I don't know I'm flagging now lol.

 

[Tortoise]

time for bed said zebedee. night all.

 

[Ashbeck]

Good point re vomit and bucket testing.
I hope they looked for/found the bucket - after all , in one news clip I saw 14 people in white forensics suits going in that house!

As for teeth and wash, I realise I will offend some posters here but they had empty yoghurt pots and tuna cans in the bathroom.......so I'm not sure if personal care and childcare were rigorous!

I agree re washing probably not being their priority (yuck!), but I'd have thought with her morning sickness she would want to be brushing her teeth not only for hygiene but to get rid of the foul taste in her mouth and ease the sickness.

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm not sure tbh. My initial reaction was yes she has the power there, but then I thought does she really? Not if she is having to then agree to sex she isn't comfortable with and spotting suitable victims for their fantasy / plan.

I don't know I'm flagging now lol.

me too, got to go to bed, it's getting ridiculous.... It's 1.30 :banme:

But re urs and CPurple's points about the control ( sex) I can't help being reminded about what Retribution was saying... deviancy, groomed ...bad as each other by the end. So who feeds whose craziness here? IDK but I think that poster knew what s/he was talking about.


:bed:

 

[cottonweaver]

I agree re washing probably not being their priority (yuck!), but I'd have thought with her morning sickness she would want to be brushing her teeth not only for hygiene but to get rid of the foul taste in her mouth and ease the sickness.

Totally - it's yuck and none of it makes any sense/credible. But this gal has an answer for everything , she'll just say well I teeth cleaned at the kitchen sink.
IDK know if she even had morning sickness really?
But it would have been pretty easy to test that bucket..... was the team so meticulous on these finer details?

Night night

 

[Beesknees]

Here is the compilation from last court session - 2 November.

I am so sorry I couldn't do it earlier today. Anyway, better late than never

http://1drv.ms/1PTiBcr

 

[Beesknees]

Will now try to catch up from page 17, where the thread was the last time I came here.

Is it me or this prosecutor is too tame and soft for this piece of work. I thought this when it was with NM and now I'm seeing with miss (w)hoare he is doing the same.

She surely is not very inteligent. If she was her life wouldn't be what it is and her partner wouldn't be NM.
But, she is very smart, very well articulate when speaking and very cold.
She had plenty of time with him to 'cook' the (impossible) story, she had plenty of time to reherse and memorise all of it and she can do now a good job when on stand.

She has an answer for each and everything. A ridiculous answer, but she has one for each and every question she is asked.

I was mad today seeing the prossecutor asking her so easy questions. Closed questions for her to answer 'yes' or 'no'.

Will he go on in the same note until the end? Hmmm...

C'mon Mr. Mousley... you could do better, no?

 

[Beesknees]

I keep flip-flopping with what I think happened. Her apparent calmness under questioning from a top barrister puzzles me - I mean she can stand up to this type of interrogation under stressful conditions, but couldn't stand up to a 5 foot 5, fibro-suffering invalid of a man all these years?

My current opinion is that she knew/suspected what was going on, but as it didn't concern her, she just let it all happen. She knew there would be no forensic evidence of her taking part (as she left him to do all the stuff that would be incriminating) so she wasn't too bothered as she thought it couldn't get pinned on her. I think she didn't really care what had happened to Becky, so long as it didn't end up causing any problems in her life.

Hummm I don't think so. She had a role in all this. She didn't only turn her back and a blind eye on it. She was a participant in it. And the more she plays the stupid, dumb, blind and deaf the more I am convinced of it.

This nasty piece is smarter, stronger, colder and worse than we think. She could certainly be a cold blood murderer and I have doubts she isn't!

 

[TupeloMz]

Will now try to catch up from page 17, where the thread was the last time I came here.

Is it me or this prosecutor is too tame and soft for this piece of work. I thought this when it was with NM and now I'm seeing with miss (w)hore he is doing the same.

She surely is not very inteligent. If she was her life wouldn't be what it is and her partner wouldn't be NM.
But, she is very smart, very well articulate when speaking and very cold.
She had plenty of time with him to 'cook' the (impossible) story, she had plenty of time to reherse and memorise all of it and she can do now a good job when on stand.

She has an answer for each and everything. A ridiculous answer, but she has one for each and every question she is asked.

I was mad today seeing the prossecutor asking her so easy questions. Closed questions for her to answer 'yes' or 'no'.

Will he go on in the same note until the end? Hmmm...

C'mon Mr. Mousley... you could do better, no?

You are not alone in that thinking.
Plus lots of folks think the pros ended their questions of SH today? What are your thoughts? Did he finish with her cross for good or just for the day?

 

[Beesknees]

And before going to sleep, I was for the first time looking for the 'famous' Do You Want To Hide A Body, the video clip so many times referred during this trial. The vídeo clip that miss w(hoare) finds so very funny and so good for a laugh after she knew Becky was there in her house dead and decaying. Hre are the lyrics from it.

These criminals are worst than we could imagine.


Will you help me hide a body?
C’mon we can’t delay!
No one can see him on the floor,
Get him out the door,
Before he can decay!

I thought you were my buddy
We won’t get caught
Just help me and don’t ask why
Will you help me hide a body?
It didn’t have to be in one piece.

 

[TupeloMz]

I have watched the parody and it is one of the main reasons I do not think SH is innocent of any of the things she is charged with.

 

[Beesknees]

You are not alone in that thinking.
Plus lots of folks think the pros ended their questions of SH today? What are your thoughts? Did he finish with her cross for good or just for the day?

Oh, I was just about to log out when I saw your post now.

No, I don't think he is finished with her. It will go on tomorrow. First because it was extremely soft for a prosecutor's cross examination of a crime of this nature. Soft and didn't cover so many things he could have mentioned! I hope he does a better job tomorrow. Also, in the 'UK and Eire database for crimes against children' Facebook page where I follow the trial everyday, usually they inform if the prossecution goes on or has finished (they said it when was with NM). Today they didn't say the pros had finished. So I expect more tomorrow though not too diferente as Mr. Mousley either has something still on his sleeve or is too gentle as a prossecutor.

If we see so many discrepancies and things bad explained and others that can't be truth, he has to see them ten times better than all of us! And, if he doesn't know how to 'grill' the lady, he can come here on WS and have many ideas to follow along hundreds of pages in all these threads dedicated to Becky!