GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #12

[ColourPurple]

RSBM - just trying not to keep doing really long posts
Yes on extent of her involvement in murder I'm still :fence: even though I don't think much of her credibility as a witness to date and her story itself is totally implausible IMO. ( Defendent's often lie for all sorts of reasons and we haven't heard all her evidence yet and most annoyingly can't get to see the Pros questions that often, just her replies. )

The stuff i posted upthread about the cops visiting on 24th Feb and her on the bed not engaging with them at all, I think she was sh@@@ing herself but it doesn't prove to me she killed, cut, packaged etc yet. Certainly not going to dismiss any of these though.

Interested in that 4weeks leave thing - I am sure that i read here, posters speculating that they planned to flee. 4 weeks is a long break, when I read he had informed work and 4 weeks was it way before the suspicion was upon them/game was up? ie. I don't know the date but I was wondering if he wanted to play the grieving step-broth and expected the search to go on for ages?

The pros did question whether he was going to do a runner, and that might tie in with SH calling "children in care" the night Becky died. That could have caused an argument if one was planning to put the little girl into care and the other disagreed. Not sure they'd have passports to go too far as previous holidays seem to have been at Butlins. Maybe over to Ireland where she has family?

Tuesday 24 February - In the early hours of the morning, a van is caught on CCTV driving between Cotton Mill Lane and Demetrius' home at Barton Court – some 80 metres away from one another. The CCTV captures figures moving around and 'a large item' being carried.
Wednesday 25 February - Matthews tells his employer that he has 'family issues' and need four weeks off work.

http://www.capitalbay.news/australi...-of-b-q-saw-he-used-to-cut-up-stepsister.html

I think he hadnt been in to work since Becky disappeared up till then either.

 

[ColourPurple]

Sorry Cherwell, Spec Learning needs.
I say this cause he had an appropriate adult with him in that interview. I don't know if he has had full assessments but his Defence lawyer will be getting those reports if he has them, or getting him evaluated for sure.

I think that might have been as a result of him stating he had mental health needs. That part where the whole metrosexual neanderthal description came into play

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes I've considered and posted about that before, but any emotional reaction seems to be when she thinks about herself and her children, even in court we've heard of her showing no emotion while Becky's injuries etc were read out yet crying when her threesome friend gave evidence, then there's that smile when asked "Why Becky", can't shake the feeling that she could have been involved.

can i just add - guilty of over-posting now! still ... here goes
When she described all of Becky's faults to the cops I was pretty surprised at the extent of the resentment relayed to strangers.
Next when she is describing NM to the cops in the interview (game over for Nathan), the total character assass except for" part of me does care for him" sentence, really seemed significant, thrown under the bus.

talk about rats being cornered ( NM's phrase ) , zero loyalty - which I accept goes back to PSuspect's and Tealgrove's explanations many pages back, but still shows a serious sense of self-preservation.

 

[ColourPurple]

The timeline in this paper is an article I hadn't seen before

Thursday 19 February - Just after 10:50am, Nathan Matthews and Shauna Hoare leave their home at 14 Cotton Mill Lane to go to Becky Watt's address at 18 Crown Hill. They stop at a Tesco Metro to buy some batteries, 'possibly for a stun gun', prosecutors allege.

At 11:03am, Becky Watts send her last ever text message to her boyfriend. Prosecutors say she was suffocated by Matthews then put in the boot of his and Hoare's car. They then stayed at the house before leaving sometime after 6:00pm.


Friday 20 February - At 12.20pm, Matthews goes to convenience store Rajani and buys two bottles of drain cleaner. At 1.15pm he goes to B&Q and buys a circular power saw, gloves, face masks and goggles.

Just after 4pm, Becky's father Darren Galsworthy rings the police and reports her as missing.


Saturday 21 February -Just after midday, Matthews and Hoare went to Asda in the Bedminister area of Bristol and purchased, in addition to groceries, 'various bleach-related cleaning products', black bags, rubble sacks, rubber gloves and three rolls of cling film, it is alleged.


Sunday 22 February - The pair are caught on CCTV at the Broadmead shopping centre. They are captured in a 99p store at around 11.33am in Wilko at 12.01pm. They buy more rubble sacks and tape, as well as a sponge.
The pair then went to Sainsbury's in Brislington at around 14:05 and purchase more tape.


Monday 23 February - Police twice call on Matthews and Hoare at their home but there is no answer at the door and the curtains are drawn.Later that night, at around 20 past 9, a five-minute call is made from Hoare or Matthews' phone to Karl Demetrius. A series of messages begin between Karl Demetrius, his colleague James Ireland, his brother Donovan Demetrius, and his girlfriend Jadine Parsons.


Tuesday 24 February - In the early hours of the morning, a van is caught on CCTV driving between Cotton Mill Lane and Demetrius' home at Barton Court – some 80 metres away from one another. The CCTV captures figures moving around and 'a large item' being carried.


Wednesday 25 February - Matthews tells his employer that he has 'family issues' and need four weeks off work.


Thursday 26 February - Matthews or Hoare's phone is used to browse newspaper reports about Becky Watts.
Crime scene investigators search the couple's home and discover blood on the doorframe*. They are later both separately interviewed in a formal setting.


Friday 27 February - ***Forensic scientists search the couple's address and discover Matthew's fingerprints in one of the bloodstains, which DNA tests prove belong to Becky.


Saturday 28 February - Both he and Hoare are arrested on suspicion of kidnap.


Monday 2 March - The inquiry becomes a murder investigation.

At 9.45pm, Matthews admits to killing Becky and storing her body parts at Barton Close. He says he strangled her after trying to kidnap her.


Tuesday 3 March - In the early hours of the morning four people are arrested for assisting an offender and police discover several suitcases, a full bin bag, and a blue plastic box containing Becky's remains.

http://www.capitalbay.news/australi...-of-b-q-saw-he-used-to-cut-up-stepsister.html

* ** blood on doorframe was at Beckys house

 

[YidArmyRach]

Surely SH cannot ever have said NM was in the kitchen with her when the door slammed. SH might have been with NM when he said to AG "we were in the kitchen when the door slammed". If that's the case, she could say now that she hadn't heard him, didn't realise the implications etc.

I don't see how, if she had originally agreed that he was with her in the kitchen, she could have changed her story without it having been brought up in evidence. So her story is and must always have been that she was in the kitchen alone when she heard a door, assumed it was Becky etc etc. It's NM who has changed his story.

I am trying to work out at what point she became complicit (if ever, athough atm that seems doubtful)

Before they went there? When they got there but before Becky died? At the point of Becky's death? Immediately after Becky died? Sometime later in the day whilst still at CH? When they got home that evening? etc etc)

Giving SH the benefit of the doubt (not often I do this!) but if she was innocent then at that point, she didn't know it was a missing persons case, or a murder case, so perhaps the significance of what he said didn't really register.

I mean, she may have thought that NM was just explaining how he knew that Becky had gone out and said "I was (or we were) in the kitchen when Becky went out and slammed the door shut", as it may have reassured Anjie that there was nothing to worry about, it was just Becky going off in a strop again.

 

[Tortoise]

True. But most of her innocent explanations relate to the aftermath of Becky's death. And that is all to do with perverting the course of justice.

all of her explanations would deem her to be innocent of everything, if believed.

so if you look at her not being involved in the death, but think she found out afterwards, what explanations can there be for not seeking police protection and safety for her and her child? even at the stage where they arrested her for kidnap. she didn't help the police.

 

[cottonweaver]

The pros did question whether he was going to do a runner, and that might tie in with SH calling "children in care" the night Becky died. That could have caused an argument if one was planning to put the little girl into care and the other disagreed. Not sure they'd have passports to go too far as previous holidays seem to have been at Butlins. Maybe over to Ireland where she has family?
http://www.capitalbay.news/australi...-of-b-q-saw-he-used-to-cut-up-stepsister.html

I think he hadnt been in to work since Becky disappeared up till then either.

wow..... thanks for that ......imagine all that causing some serious panic for both of them.

 

[MissUnderstood]

Sadly I don't think we will ever know the real truth. These two cowards are trying to cover their butts with stories that make no sense! Poor becky


MOO!!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The timeline in this paper is an article I hadn't seen before


http://www.capitalbay.news/australi...-of-b-q-saw-he-used-to-cut-up-stepsister.html

The only thing with that timeline is - on entries for 26th and 27th it says "the couples home", but I assume they mean Beckys home? The door frame blood was at Becky's, right?

 

[Jinkasaurus]

How does it work in the UK- will the transcripts of the actual trial ever be released?

 

[Clio]

The timeline in this paper is an article I hadn't seen before

http://www.capitalbay.news/australi...-of-b-q-saw-he-used-to-cut-up-stepsister.html

Interesting. There are times given for the shop sightings on the 20th & 22nd together with a timing for a call to KD on 23rd which I haven't seen before. I can add those to the timeline I posted yesterday if it's helpful.

I think there are some errors. Becky's body wasn't found on 20th Feb!!!! I think perhaps they have got mixed up re blood on doorframes. On 26th & 27th, do they mean blood on doorframes in CH rather than CML I wonder

 

[Tortoise]

I've noticed a few people comment on the difference between Nathan and Shauna's demeanour in the videos and some seem to think that especially compared to Nathan, she seems cold, controlled, confident, unmoved but couldn't it just be the difference between someone who's just killed his step-sister and spent days panicking about the sky falling in and someone who's innocent?

We often all focus on the past guilty offenders behaviour during interview and trial but I wonder if anyone can recall being certain someone was guilty but it's turned out that they were in fact innocent?

If SH is innocent, I would have expected her interview to be more like this

OMG, he hid her in our house? where? I've been with him all the time, he couldn't have done that, I'd have noticed it. OMG, he was in the bathroom for 3 days first with the saw going and then after that I don't know what he was doing in there for so long, and he kept the door locked too. He said it was to fix the toilet pipes, I must be so stupid to have thought it would take 3 days to fix the toilet. That explains why he's avoided his mum and Darren, and all the family searches. And he made out the car was broken and he had to leave it at my mum's all week, but I knew it wasn't, I couldn't work out why he started behaving like that, now it's beginning to make sense. And he's never deep cleaned the bathroom like that before, he is usually quite lazy when it comes to cleaning, and he didn't want the police going in - he told me it was because of xyz...

what does SH say? I'm a deep sleeper so he could have done all of this while I was asleep (to promote her innocence - I saw nothing strange happening during waking hours). We used a bucket when I was desperate for the loo (to promote her innocence - I Shauna did not go in the bathroom). He did phone some friends to pick us up because he'd had a drink one night but I fell asleep and left him outside chatting. (to promote her innocence - I Shauna did not see or hear the removals from my loft going on outside my door).

She doesn't help the police at all. It is all about her. They ask her - why should we believe you? - because of my history it would be highly unlikely. what a strange thing to say. IMO. She was sexually assaulted I believe I read, on her way to school? - was she alluding to this being a sexually motivated attack gone wrong?

 

[Clio]

all of her explanations would deem her to be innocent of everything, if believed.

so if you look at her not being involved in the death, but think she found out afterwards, what explanations can there be for not seeking police protection and safety for her and her child? even at the stage where they arrested her for kidnap. she didn't help the police.

I don't know - I am not her. I do not know how she thinks. If she wasn't involved in the death she should have called the police asap I agree. Even if she was scared of him, at the point that he confessed to killing Becky, she must have known he would be going to prison and could not hurt her if she told all she knew. That does not necessarily make her guilty of conspiracy to kidnap and murder.

 

[cottonweaver]

If SH is innocent, I would have expected her interview to be more like this

OMG, he hid her in our house? where? I've been with him all the time, he couldn't have done that, I'd have noticed it. OMG, he was in the bathroom for 3 days first with the saw going and then after that I don't know what he was doing in there for so long, and he kept the door locked too. He said it was to fix the toilet pipes, I must be so stupid to have thought it would take 3 days to fix the toilet. That explains why he's avoided his mum and Darren, and all the family searches. And he made out the car was broken and he had to leave it at my mum's all week, but I knew it wasn't, I couldn't work out why he started behaving like that, now it's beginning to make sense. And he's never deep cleaned the bathroom like that before, he is usually quite lazy when it comes to cleaning, and he didn't want the police going in - he told me it was because of xyz...

what does SH say? I'm a deep sleeper so he could have done all of this while I was asleep (to promote her innocence - I saw nothing strange happening during waking hours). We used a bucket when I was desperate for the loo (to promote her innocence - I Shauna did not go in the bathroom). He did phone some friends to pick us up because he'd had a drink one night but I fell asleep and left him outside chatting. (to promote her innocence - I Shauna did not see or hear the removals from my loft going on outside my door).

She doesn't help the police at all. It is all about her. They ask her - why should we believe you? - because of my history it would be highly unlikely. what a strange thing to say. IMO. She was sexually assaulted I believe I read, on her way to school? - was she alluding to this being a sexually motivated attack gone wrong?

That really helps illuminate it.
Would love to see a transcript of the real interview in B&White and compare.

BIB 1 Yes , struck me too. Very "rationalising" and "evidence - testing" of her. "Highly unlikely" is a very impersonal way to speak out such intimate, horrible stuff.
BIB 2 Mmmmm - think you spotted a big slip-up there as no cop had mentioned sex-motivated yet had they?

 

[ColourPurple]

Interesting. There are times given for the shop sightings on the 20th & 22nd together with a timing for a call to KD on 23rd which I haven't seen before. I can add those to the timeline I posted yesterday if it's helpful.

I think there are some errors. Becky's body wasn't found on 20th Feb!!!! I think perhaps they have got mixed up re blood on doorframes. On 26th & 27th, do they mean blood on doorframes in CH rather than CML I wonder

Arrrgh the copy paste picked up the line about finding the body, from the description under a photo in the middle of the timeline. Its not part of the timeline .I've edited it out now, . I agree re. the mix up about the doorframes

 

[cottonweaver]

How does it work in the UK- will the transcripts of the actual trial ever be released?

The original material (the shorthand notes, tape recordings, etc.) of any Crown Court trial belong to Ministry of Justice (MOJ). It is created and held by one of several Court Transcribing firms who are contracted by the MOJ.
You are entitled to apply to the reporting firm for a transcript (for which the reporting firm makes a commercial charge) provided you have obtained permission from the court concerned. The copyright in all transcripts remains with the Crown. The Crown gives blanket permission for copying and distribution of transcripts for any legitimate criminal justice function and/or for access to personal data.

http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/getting-copies-court-transcripts/

best I can do

 

[YidArmyRach]

If SH is innocent, I would have expected her interview to be more like this

OMG, he hid her in our house? where? I've been with him all the time, he couldn't have done that, I'd have noticed it. OMG, he was in the bathroom for 3 days first with the saw going and then after that I don't know what he was doing in there for so long, and he kept the door locked too. He said it was to fix the toilet pipes, I must be so stupid to have thought it would take 3 days to fix the toilet. That explains why he's avoided his mum and Darren, and all the family searches. And he made out the car was broken and he had to leave it at my mum's all week, but I knew it wasn't, I couldn't work out why he started behaving like that, now it's beginning to make sense. And he's never deep cleaned the bathroom like that before, he is usually quite lazy when it comes to cleaning, and he didn't want the police going in - he told me it was because of xyz...

what does SH say? I'm a deep sleeper so he could have done all of this while I was asleep (to promote her innocence - I saw nothing strange happening during waking hours). We used a bucket when I was desperate for the loo (to promote her innocence - I Shauna did not go in the bathroom). He did phone some friends to pick us up because he'd had a drink one night but I fell asleep and left him outside chatting. (to promote her innocence - I Shauna did not see or hear the removals from my loft going on outside my door).

She doesn't help the police at all. It is all about her. They ask her - why should we believe you? - because of my history it would be highly unlikely. what a strange thing to say. IMO. She was sexually assaulted I believe I read, on her way to school? - was she alluding to this being a sexually motivated attack gone wrong?

Just got to say, this is a great post.

The example of how one would expect the interview to go, is spot on.

 

[cottonweaver]

How does it work in the UK- will the transcripts of the actual trial ever be released?

The original material (the shorthand notes, tape recordings, etc.) of any Crown Court trial belong to Ministry of Justice (MOJ). It is created and held by one of several Court Transcribing firms who are contracted by the MOJ.
You are entitled to apply to the reporting firm for a transcript (for which the reporting firm makes a commercial charge) provided you have obtained permission from the court concerned. The copyright in all transcripts remains with the Crown. The Crown gives blanket permission for copying and distribution of transcripts for any legitimate criminal justice function and/or for access to personal data.

http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/getting-copies-court-transcripts/

UL - personal data, eg if you are the defendant
best I can do

 

[CoverMeCagney]

@Retribution

- not seen any posts for a while. Hope you are recovering well from your op, please come back to us, would love to know your take on proceedings!

 

[Bathsheba]

Also, can anyone remember what sentence Maxine Carr got? I don't know why but this case keeps reminding me of them, I think it's the potential "innocent girlfriend" aspect, and the bath.

Yes I keep being reminded of Maxine Carr too.