GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #14

[Gigi-G]

Says all journalists have been asked not to report anything live from the summing up this afternoon - "everyone's hands have been legally tied this afternoon".

I bet there is a whole lot of information that has been withheld, so we are really not in a position to know which way this will go. Retribution hinted that there was a lot to come out which wasn't being reported.

And yet if there was a public gallery. You'd hear the summing up anyways.. unless there was no Public in today's sitting just Journo's. ... I knew I should of gone to Brizzle today! 😠

 

[jessie]

The UK & Eire guy has posted the whole of this Guardian article without giving the source.

Well, he wouldn't last 2 minutes on WS then. :laughing:

 

[edgedweller]

I've been reading up on Vincent Tabak, and he is 6' 4". I thought interestingly he, VT, said he couldn't lift Joanna Yeates (who was 5'4" and 9 stone so similar to Becky) over the 4 foot high wall = that was why he had to leave her on the ground.

A 4 foot high wall isn't much to a strapping 6'4" lad, full of adrenaline too I suppose considering what he's doing.

Just comparing weight and sizes to NM and BW.

Good point. Although the weather was against him too. Bitterly cold and lots of ice underfoot. Perhaps he ran out of energy and also couldn't get a good grip on the ground with his feet. It was by a road too, so he couldn't take too long in case cars drove by and saw him. Thank god he couldn't get her over the wall, otherwise they might never have found her. Poor Jo [emoji22]

ETA: looks like great minds think alike!

 

[Legal]

Hello everyone! Thanks for the welcomes! Just back from work and catching up on what's happened. I've been reading Beesknees very helpful summary over the past couple of days and it's been really useful seeing the information all together. There was a lot that I missed.

Firstly, Becky's boyfriend's evidence wasn't allowed to be reported at first as he was 17, but I think he turned 18 and they allowed it in. So, there could be lots of other things not being reported to us. Also, Becky's best friend's evidence said NM talked about ripping out toenails and sledgehammers. I wonder if the dismemberment wasn't to hide evidence (which wouldn't be the most efficient method) but was because he enjoyed it.

The list of injuries Becky had was horrific. I agree that if NM had done it alone he would have had loads of injuries himself - Becky had really long nails for a start. Then the post mortem knife stabbing - that would have taken a lot of energy and strength.

The description of the rape video was called something like the rape of a virgin in her own home. I'm sure they tried to replicate this together. The sequence of events works: threesomes, watching the rape video, discussing kidnapping a teenage girl and keeping her in the attic, purchase of stun guns, Becky's death. In fact, I think all the evidence, the dna evidence, NM's obvious lies, contacting SH's parents, the watching of the video 'how to hide a body', the timings, taken as a whole - is strong. It's impossible to believe watching a video about how to hide a body, when you have a dead body in your house, was a coincidence. And if it wasn't a coincidence, SH knew.

 

[edgedweller]

Hello everyone! Thanks for the welcomes! Just back from work and catching up on what's happened. I've been reading Beesknees very helpful summary over the past couple of days and it's been really useful seeing the information all together. There was a lot that I missed.

Firstly, Becky's boyfriend's evidence wasn't allowed to be reported at first as he was 17, but I think he turned 18 and they allowed it in. So, there could be lots of other things not being reported to us. Also, Becky's best friend's evidence said NM talked about ripping out toenails and sledgehammers. I wonder if the dismemberment wasn't to hide evidence (which wouldn't be the most efficient method) but was because he enjoyed it.

The list of injuries Becky had was horrific. I agree that if NM had done it alone he would have had loads of injuries himself - Becky had really long nails for a start. Then the post mortem knife stabbing - that would have taken a lot of energy and strength.

The description of the rape video was called something like the rape of a virgin in her own home. I'm sure they tried to replicate this together. The sequence of events works: threesomes, watching the rape video, discussing kidnapping a teenage girl and keeping her in the attic, purchase of stun guns, Becky's death. In fact, I think all the evidence, the dna evidence, NM's obvious lies, contacting SH's parents, the watching of the video 'how to hide a body', the timings, taken as a whole - is strong. It's impossible to believe watching a video about how to hide a body, when you have a dead body in your house, was a coincidence. And if it wasn't a coincidence, SH knew.

Thanks Legal, I really hope the jury think as you do! I agree - way too many 'coincidences' for it not to be murder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cherwell]

And yet if there was a public gallery. You'd hear the summing up anyways.. unless there was no Public in today's sitting just Journo's. ... I knew I should of gone to Brizzle today! ��

Yes, but the judge would have instructed them not to divulge any restricted matters, or they would be guilty of contempt of court.

 

[jessie]

Hello everyone! Thanks for the welcomes! Just back from work and catching up on what's happened. I've been reading Beesknees very helpful summary over the past couple of days and it's been really useful seeing the information all together. There was a lot that I missed.

Firstly, Becky's boyfriend's evidence wasn't allowed to be reported at first as he was 17, but I think he turned 18 and they allowed it in. So, there could be lots of other things not being reported to us. Also, Becky's best friend's evidence said NM talked about ripping out toenails and sledgehammers. I wonder if the dismemberment wasn't to hide evidence (which wouldn't be the most efficient method) but was because he enjoyed it.

The list of injuries Becky had was horrific. I agree that if NM had done it alone he would have had loads of injuries himself - Becky had really long nails for a start. Then the post mortem knife stabbing - that would have taken a lot of energy and strength

RSBM


Thanks for your post Legal, I found it very informative and interesting.
There is a great benefit in hearing other people's opinions, and any legal knowledge is so helpful.

 

[Gigi-G]

You know. This is such a whole hullabaloo. I think they should sell the rights to this story to Disney or Steven Spielberg as it really does unravel like a fairytale... With the 'frozen parody' In it. A dark sinister Fairytale. Not making light of poor BW at all. Just the sheer BS is based on.
NM killed BW. Of that he's admitted to.
SH seriously must be blind deaf and dumb...
They live in an actual landfill waste dump.
And they evilly ensnared some unwittingly helpful village folk to help in their dastardly deed.

I hope that the Jury see through the utter BS and sentence them for the rest of their days. And throw away the key.

And the poor unwitting helpers. Get a few months hard work in the community.

All my own story of course....

 

[Clio]

<rsbm>
The description of the rape video was called something like the rape of a virgin in her own home. I'm sure they tried to replicate this together

Hi Legal & Welcome,

BIB If they did try to assault Becky in her own home, and there was therefore no joint kidnap plan at all, how do you see this fitting with the charges and judges instructions? Just curious to have your view on it, if you don't mind me asking. TIA

http://www.itv.com/news/west/2015-11-09/becky-watts-trial-what-the-jury-must-decide/
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...each-verdict-without-emotion?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[CoverMeCagney]

You know. This is such a whole hullabaloo. I think they should sell the rights to this story to Disney or Steven Spielberg as it really does unravel like a fairytale... With the 'frozen parody' In it. A dark sinister Fairytale. Not making light of poor BW at all. Just the sheer BS is based on.
NM killed BW. Of that he's admitted to.
SH seriously must be blind deaf and dumb...
They live in an actual landfill waste dump.
And they evilly ensnared some unwittingly helpful village folk to help in their dastardly deed.

I hope that the Jury see through the utter BS and sentence them for the rest of their days. And throw away the key.

And the poor unwitting helpers. Get a few months hard work in the community.

All my own story of course....

Baggsy not taking my kids to see that Disney film!

 

[Tortoise]

talking of LO's evidence not being reported because of his age, how old is Becky's best friend? same age surely? did the same restrictions apply to her?

 

[mrazda71]

Hello everyone! Thanks for the welcomes! Just back from work and catching up on what's happened. I've been reading Beesknees very helpful summary over the past couple of days and it's been really useful seeing the information all together. There was a lot that I missed.

Firstly, Becky's boyfriend's evidence wasn't allowed to be reported at first as he was 17, but I think he turned 18 and they allowed it in. So, there could be lots of other things not being reported to us. Also, Becky's best friend's evidence said NM talked about ripping out toenails and sledgehammers. I wonder if the dismemberment wasn't to hide evidence (which wouldn't be the most efficient method) but was because he enjoyed it.

The list of injuries Becky had was horrific. I agree that if NM had done it alone he would have had loads of injuries himself - Becky had really long nails for a start. Then the post mortem knife stabbing - that would have taken a lot of energy and strength.

The description of the rape video was called something like the rape of a virgin in her own home. I'm sure they tried to replicate this together. The sequence of events works: threesomes, watching the rape video, discussing kidnapping a teenage girl and keeping her in the attic, purchase of stun guns, Becky's death. In fact, I think all the evidence, the dna evidence, NM's obvious lies, contacting SH's parents, the watching of the video 'how to hide a body', the timings, taken as a whole - is strong. It's impossible to believe watching a video about how to hide a body, when you have a dead body in your house, was a coincidence. And if it wasn't a coincidence, SH knew.

Sorry to correct you but I think you've got confused - evidence from the 17 year old boy who was unnamed was Becky's 'boy' 'friend' not Boyfriend. It was stated that he couldn't be named for legal reasons but didn't specify what reasons.

ETA pretty sure Luke was 17 when he gave evidence too.

 

[Clio]

talking of LO's evidence not being reported because of his age, how old is Becky's best friend? same age surely? did the same restrictions apply to her?

LO's evidence was allowed - he just wasn't named at first. IIRC The male friend who's house Becky visted on the 18th also gave evidence but wasn't named so he probably isn't 18 yet. I guess CB must be over 18 as she was named.

 

[Tortoise]

You know. This is such a whole hullabaloo. I think they should sell the rights to this story to Disney or Steven Spielberg as it really does unravel like a fairytale... With the 'frozen parody' In it. A dark sinister Fairytale. Not making light of poor BW at all. Just the sheer BS is based on.
NM killed BW. Of that he's admitted to.
SH seriously must be blind deaf and dumb...
They live in an actual landfill waste dump.
And they evilly ensnared some unwittingly helpful village folk to help in their dastardly deed.

I hope that the Jury see through the utter BS and sentence them for the rest of their days. And throw away the key.

And the poor unwitting helpers. Get a few months hard work in the community.

All my own story of course....

You know if I have to stretch the bounds of my credulity more than once, twice, uh-uh, I ain't going there.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

talking of LO's evidence not being reported because of his age, how old is Becky's best friend? same age surely? did the same restrictions apply to her?

According to genesreunited CAB is slightly older than Becky and is currently still 17, and LO turned 18 over the summer. So no, I'm not sure why CAB's evidence was heard but not LO's. Perhaps he didn't want to or just couldn't add anything relevant. I'm not sure how long they had been together.

 

[mrazda71]

According to genesreunited CAB is slightly older than Becky and is currently still 17, and LO turned 18 over the summer. So no, I'm not sure why CAB's evidence was heard but not LO's. Perhaps he didn't want to or just couldn't add anything relevant. I'm not sure how long they had been together.

3 friends gave evidence didn't they? Luke, Courtny AND the unnamed boy who Becky spent the evening and night before with?

 

[Gigi-G]

Baggsy not taking my kids to see that Disney film!

Indeedy. .. but in the world of NM & SH. This is reality...

All I see is BS. &#128169;
Let's hope the Jury see through it.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I don't know much about joint enterprise but there is an offence of constructive manslaughter (manslaughter by an unlawful and dangerous act). If a person intends to commit an unlawful act and this would lead a reasonable person to realise some other person is at risk of harm, and in fact death is caused, the person is guilty. The prosecution does not need to show the defendant foresaw the risk of serious harm, nor that they intended it. The unlawful act in this case would be the kidnapping.

BBM According to this yes they do! (From this afternoon)

The crown must prove that Matthews:
Unlawfully
Killed
Becky
Intending to kill, or intending to cause her grievous bodily harm
Whether Shauna Hoare is guilty of murder or manslaughter or none. The crown must prove that:
That Hoare participated in the kidnapping of Becky Watts intending that she should be killed or come to serious bodily harm to overcome her resistance.
In the course of the attack Matthews suffocated or strangled Becky while intending to kill her or cause her really serious bodily harm.
OR if Hoare participated in the kidnap of Becky, and reasonably believed that some harm might be caused to her this is manslaughter.

 

[Legal]

Sorry to correct you but I think you've got confused - evidence from the 17 year old boy who was unnamed was Becky's 'boy' 'friend' not Boyfriend. It was stated that he couldn't be named for legal reasons but didn't specify what reasons.

ETA pretty sure Luke was 17 when he gave evidence too.

Hello! Thank you for your comment Mrazda71. I've really gained a lot from reading your posts throughout this trial. I've just gone back to the onedrive notes and you're correct about Becky's boy friend. However, I was actually referring to information from day 2 of the trial, where on page 4 after CM's testimony it states

"Following a ruling by the judge after lunch, we can now report a little more about some evidence heard earlier today. Becky's boyfriend LO, now 18, gave evidence..."

"

 

[Insp.Dots]

3 friends gave evidence didn't they? Luke, Courtny AND the unnamed boy who Becky spent the evening and night before with?

I think LO's may have been a written statement read out but not 100%