GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

[Ironside]

http://theukdatabase.com/2015/11/10/maurice-hoare-roscommon/

Evening all, I'm playing catch up again but just seen this with regard to SH's Uncle. Didn't she hint at 'something in her past' during her Police interview? Just wandering if this may have an affect at Sentencing etc.

I thought she said she was grabbed on the street when she was a teenager.

Rose West was raped repeatedly by her own father but that didn't stop her getting life in jail.

 

[Hexenb]

Well, speaking for myself I have 'carried out independent research' and my search history is quite scary now (google is my friend) - and I have also carried out experiments (suitcases)..

This afternoon I have also been seeing how easy/difficult it is to cover a tiled bathroom wall with clingfilm !!!! :facepalm:

But I'm not on the jury.

Yep I'm been pondering in the bathroom today thinking how I can suspend a body that's when I thought about the engine hoist:shame:

 

[Insp.Dots]

I thought she said she was grabbed on the street when she was a teenager.

Rose West was raped repeatedly by her own father but that didn't stop her getting life in jail.

Ah, I missed that part Thanks. And yes, very true re Rose West, Will be interesting to hear the Mitigation and Pre sentence reports etc but I hope they don't get any less than they deserve as it would be yet another kick for Becky's Family! IMO

 

[Insp.Dots]

Yep I'm been pondering in the bathroom today thinking how I can suspend a body that's when I thought about the engine hoist:shame:

Yes, I have been pondering the same, especially since SH mention handcuffs were kept hanging on the bull bar. IF the kidnap theory was true, I guess she could have been 'kept' there. But, with regard to hanging during dismemberment (always hate saying that part), wouldn't it have shown on her body at Post mortem, also blood pooling etc?

 

[epiphany]

Hi everyone, I have newly registered with this forum but I am certainly not new to it. I have been following this case from the beginning and it has really got to me. I think maybe Becky reminds me if a sixteen year old me and because of the weirdness of this case. I have been reading your theories and coming up with my own but I feel that we are all going around in circles. I think most people on here are of the opinion that both NM and SH are guilty. The question is WHY? We have been given half truths so. What is NM hiding? Is he covering for someone other than SH?

RBBM

NM is trying to hide his & his partner's lust for sexual degradation of young females and their enjoyment of other such depravities.

 

[jessie]

Thanks.

Well that is one plausible theory for how they may have planned to get away with kidnapping Becky.

And what I like about it is that it involves Nathan's tree. The one he was going to tie her to. He just omitted to say that it would be hanging from a branch.

OK my third attempt to post a short acknowledgement to your post Tortoise. (My server is playing havoc this pm)

Just wanted to say I think that is a brilliant thought. I had never, ever, thought that his/their plan could be to make it look like suicide eventually, but it would make so much sense to their warped minds.
Depressed young teen found hanged by her own hand, sadly not unknown.

 

[sar2them1984]

That's what I'd assumed it was.

Regarding the cake tin and it being the reason they went round that day, I think SH said that it was her that found the tin, so her idea to return it. So if that was just an excuse to go round when AG wasn't in, then for me that means SH was involved before they even went to the house.

Ahhh when I heard cake tin I assumed the actual tin you bake a cake in..not that it particularly matters mind...

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[sar2them1984]

We should maybe keep in mind that Nathan had trained as an Army Reserve and IMO to be a reserve or regular serviceman, you have to be a certain kind of person. I'm not saying the forces are full of psychopaths/sociopaths etc BUT you are trained with the though in mind to kill or be killed. I know many of you are more horrified at the dismemberment than anything else and OF COURSE if it were a member of MY family I'd be utterly disturbed BUT the armed forces are trained to distance themselves from what they HAVE to do ...

No sorry I don't agree with that, many members of the armed forces are like you or I, not hardened killing machines. ..

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[sar2them1984]

I'm not sure how much training he would have had in that respect, considering he was only a reservist.

My husband served 22 years and served in Iraq and Afghanistan, so I would agree that he would have had that mindset. My son is also in the forces, but only in his first year and as far as I am aware (from the info given regarding his training and what he has told me), he has spent his time so far on more practical training - fire fighting, first aid, repairing leaks, cleaning rifles and so on.

I know that a lot of forces personnel see the reservists as a bit of a joke - a bit like how some people view PCSOs, as very much inferior to the real role, and only a lightweight version, without most of the training or experience. I know reservists who haven't been anywhere near conflict, danger or actual war despite serving for years and years. Hope that doesn't offend anyone!

Totally agree - I come from a military family and the TA are mocked for their part time jaunts and the story goes most sign up just so they can brag to friends

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[Tortoise]

OK my third attempt to post a short acknowledgement to your post Tortoise. (My server is playing havoc this pm)

Just wanted to say I think that is a brilliant thought. I had never, ever, thought that his/their plan could be to make it look like suicide eventually, but it would make so much sense to their warped minds.
Depressed young teen found hanged by her own hand, sadly not unknown.

thanks jessie

To my mind it makes the most sense. It doesn't make sense to me that they would keep her in their loft - those new build houses are not good for noise transference to neighbouring properties.

I can just about accept that they may have taken her back to their house to carry out their sexual attack on Becky, but then I think they would already have had a plan to get rid of her straight away. And that is how I see it in their minds - getting rid of Becky - they didn't just hate her they wanted her dead.

To the woods where NM says he was going to take her - he knew which ones - it makes no sense he hadn't decided yet - he is a planner - leave her hanging.

I even think the plan may have been to take her straight to the woods - not involving their house at all. But when Becky died with so many injuries on her body this plan could not be carried through. It wouldn't look like suicide.

That is when they had to come up with something else and why they didn't already have the materials.

It also fits with them setting up family arguments, where Becky was deliberately made the scapegoat, and if they were able to access her fb, leave that depressed message looking like Becky posted it. Or maybe, Becky really did post it, because the problems did make her feel unwanted and that no-one would miss her.

To my mind, that fits everything that happened in the build up to this day. And as someone else posted just a bit earlier, AG wouldn't very often leave the house and it was half term so Becky would normally be out at school. There may have been hardly any times when she would be in the house alone.

 

[jessie]

Yes, I have been pondering the same, especially since SH mention handcuffs were kept hanging on the bull bar. IF the kidnap theory was true, I guess she could have been 'kept' there. But, with regard to hanging during dismemberment (always hate saying that part), wouldn't it have shown on her body at Post mortem, also blood pooling etc?

As I understand it lividity (blood pooling after death) remains fixed after six hours. I think she'd have been in the car for six hours by then from what we know? My goodness how gruesome it is speaking like this - try to stay detached.

 

[Hexenb]

Yes, I have been pondering the same, especially since SH mention handcuffs were kept hanging on the bull bar. IF the kidnap theory was true, I guess she could have been 'kept' there. But, with regard to hanging during dismemberment (always hate saying that part), wouldn't it have shown on her body at Post mortem, also blood pooling etc?

Yes it probably would have was just thinking if body was suspended some how over the bath no marks from a hoist on the bath and two hands free and easier to use the saw must stop thinking these dreadful things

 

[TupeloMz]

I am thinking that SH and NM would have had their depraved fun with Becky and then she would just disappear and her folks would think she ran away.

 

[jessie]

I am thinking that SH and NM would have had their depraved fun with Becky and then she would just disappear and her folks would think she ran away.

Or, as Tortoise proposed, is found hanging. Self harm can involve garrotting and is classed as' hanging' I believe.

It makes me wonder about NM's "plan" now. He speaks about "his plan" "it didn't go to plan". There must have been a plan for what happened after he/they had kidnapped and made use of her. She couldn't have been kept in their little terraced house for long could she ?

 

[Alyce]

Yes it probably would have was just thinking if body was suspended some how over the bath no marks from a hoist on the bath and two hands free and easier to use the saw must stop thinking these dreadful things

That was why I thought of the bar across the bedroom door, with the handcuffs. One cuff attached to the bar, the other to the right wrist.
Body standing in the blue box - the one that was eventually used to transfer body parts to Barton Court, so no problem if any dna found in there.
As someone else on here has already pointed out, a circular saw does not throw stuff out ( sorry bit graphic that ) so probably very little mess.
Blood would have pooled by then ( Jessie's post ) and, once rigor had worn off ( 24 hrs from onset ? ) it would have been possible to do the dismemberment.
I am about 2 inches shorter than Becky and, standing inside my bedroom door frame with my arm stretched up, my wrist is exactly at the right place to be in a handcuff and suspended from a bar.
Fortunately when I did this measurement there was no one else at home !

 

[mrazda71]

No sorry I don't agree with that, many members of the armed forces are like you or I, not hardened killing machines. ..

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I didn't suggest that they were "hardened killing machines" but you don't find many pacifists in the armed forces.

 

[Gigi-G]

Hi everyone, I have newly registered with this forum but I am certainly not new to it. I have been following this case from the beginning and it has really got to me. I think maybe Becky reminds me if a sixteen year old me and because of the weirdness of this case. I have been reading your theories and coming up with my own but I feel that we are all going around in circles. I think most people on here are of the opinion that both NM and SH are guilty. The question is WHY? We have been given half truths so. What is NM hiding? Is he covering for someone other than SH?

IMO I really think he/NM hasn't elaborated much else to the facts of the case other than what we know. Because he wants 'his' family to be spared of the stomach churning details he has in his head. NM wanted love.. a Mothers love. And when BW took a huge part of his mom/AG in those first few years when AG spent months as an unpaid TA in BW'S classroom. That was the pinnacle for me..... For whatever reason NM was sent to live with his Grandmother. Yes, his Grandmother did a fine job of raising him. But the seeds of doubt had already been sewn in his mind... 'why?'
What did this 'Becky' girl have what he didn't have? She in fact 'stole' his mother. And I don't think he's ever forgot that betrayal by someone he loved so much. To distance themselves from him. I feel much resentment followed from this point on.
I really think that it's unrequited love.
There ain't no love like a Mothers love. And NM hated BW for that.
He just wants his mother to love him. He ' got rid of the problem that was Becky.' His mother and stepdad didn't have to go thru all the anguish of the big arguments. Stuff left lying around. His mom was safe now. And it was down to him she was safe.
That's how I see it. The letter he wrote his Mother while on remand. We don't know it's contents. But I'm sure it reads something like ' I'm so sorry mom. But I couldn't bear her being so nasty to you. Forgive me I love you mom' .... to that effect.

Sorry to babble on. Jmoo
#justiceforBecky♡

 

[LookingForClues]

thanks jessie

To my mind it makes the most sense. It doesn't make sense to me that they would keep her in their loft - those new build houses are not good for noise transference to neighbouring properties.

I can just about accept that they may have taken her back to their house to carry out their sexual attack on Becky, but then I think they would already have had a plan to get rid of her straight away. And that is how I see it in their minds - getting rid of Becky - they didn't just hate her they wanted her dead.

RSBM for focus

Unfortunately, there are many ways that women (and even children) have been held captive without neighbors hearing anything...many detailed right here on Websleuths. Using a gag, drugging them, chaining them or confining them so they can't move around, etc.

NM and SH are not friendly with their neighbors. They don't have visitors to their home. They could keep a lot secret. If they were to decide later they needed to disguise noises, they could play their stereo or TV loudly, or they could buy some sound insulation and add it to their attic. It really wouldn't be difficult. How many times on here have we all wondered how neighbors didn't know someone was being held captive next door? Too many times for my peace of mind, I must say.

 

[Gigi-G]

IMO I really think he/NM hasn't elaborated much else to the facts of the case other than what we know. Because he wants 'his' family to be spared of the stomach churning details he has in his head. NM wanted love.. a Mothers love. And when BW took a huge part of his mom/AG in those first few years when AG spent months as an unpaid TA in BW'S classroom. That was the pinnacle for me..... For whatever reason NM was sent to live with his Grandmother. Yes, his Grandmother did a fine job of raising him. But the seeds of doubt had already been sewn in his mind... 'why?'
What did this 'Becky' girl have what he didn't have? She in fact 'stole' his mother. And I don't think he's ever forgot that betrayal by someone he loved so much. To distance themselves from him. I feel much resentment followed from this point on.
I really think that it's unrequited love.
There ain't no love like a Mothers love. And NM hated BW for that.
He just wants his mother to love him. He ' got rid of the problem that was Becky.' His mother and stepdad didn't have to go thru all the anguish of the big arguments. Stuff left lying around. His mom was safe now. And it was down to him she was safe.
That's how I see it. The letter he wrote his Mother while on remand. We don't know it's contents. But I'm sure it reads something like ' I'm so sorry mom. But I couldn't bear her being so nasty to you. Forgive me I love you mom' .... to that effect.

Sorry to babble on. Jmoo
#justiceforBecky♡

ETA

I also believe NM & SH Fed off each other.. They were like 2 peas in a pod.

 

[Gigi-G]

Well, speaking for myself I have 'carried out independent research' and my search history is quite scary now (google is my friend) - and I have also carried out experiments (suitcases)..

This afternoon I have also been seeing how easy/difficult it is to cover a tiled bathroom wall with clingfilm !!!! :facepalm:

But I'm not on the jury.

Would you care to elaborate on the subject of clingfilming a bathroom wall..?
You see I know.. I would end up covered in it... not the wall 😁