UK UK - Renata Antczak, 49, Hull, East Yorkshire, 25 April 2017
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Maybe because it's all legal argument which they don't want before a potential jury, while the judge decides whether to proceed to trial next month?
Could the fact it's so touch and go be prejudicial?
Not sure, just guessing.
That sounds like it could be the case. I wonder why they can't even give the next hearing date, unless the CPS has been instructed to go away and only come back when it has better evidence, but they haven't dropped the charges. I don't know, I'm struggling to think of reasons. And did we know it was going to be held at Grimsby? change of venue to keep nosey parkers away
. We will just have to wait, a g a i n.
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It looks like the trial started yesterday. Now at Doncaster Crown Court.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/renata-majid-mustafa-hull-trial-1440829
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/renata-majid-mustafa-hull-trial-1440829
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DAY 1 [Yesterday]
10:34
Jury sworn in
A jury of nine women and three men was sworn in at Doncaster Crown Court yesterday, and prosecutor John Thackray is expected to open the case this morning.
Before selection, jurors were asked if they knew of Renata, Dr Mustafa, or their two daughters. None said they did.
10:41
Representation for Dr Mustafa
Dr Mustafa is represented by Michael Bromley-Martin QC, and junior counsel Christopher Martin.
10:48
Jury has now entered the court
The jury has now entered the court.
The opening will be heard this morning.
10:59 KEY EVENT
Renata's husband 'tried to get date rape drug to use on his wife'
Dr Mustafa was obsessed about his suspicion that his wife, Renata, was having an affair, and recruited a friend, Robert Lipinski, to try to obtain a date rape drug so he could get access to her mobile phone with her fingerprint, the court heard.
11:06
Date rape drug was GHB
The date rape drug Dr Mustafa asked to get was GHB, which rapidly affects anyone who takes it and leaves them with little or no memory of the period in which they were affected by the drug, Mr Thackray, prosecuting, said.
Mr Lipinski, a Polish national, told Dr Mustafa the drug could also be used to interrogate someone who had taken it, and Dr Mustafa certainly didnt dissent, the court was told.
11:11
Dr Mustafa 'upset' about suspected affair
Dr Mustafa was understandably upset about the suspected affair - said to be with a man in Poland - and went to great lengths to try to find out the truth.
This included secretly recording Renata by placing a spy camera in their car and installing software on her computer.
11:19
Dr Mustafa recorded Renata's phone calls
Dr Mustafa also recorded Renatas phone calls with the use of other software.
Prosecuting, Mr Thackray told the jury: What the defendant wanted was for his wife to admit to him that she was having a sexual relationship with another man, and perhaps to tell him the extent of the relationship.
It may be, perhaps, he felt that only if he heard it straight from her would he really ever know the true and full position.
11:28
Dr Mustafa encouraged a friend to get the drug - prosecution
Mr Lipinski was also in an unhappy marriage and was thinking of doing the same to his wife, the court heard.
Mr Thackray said the prosecution did not have to prove the drug was ever obtained.
He told the jury: Its enough the prosecution prove, so that you are sure, that the defendant intentionally encouraged Lipinski to commit the offence.
11:34
'It's not about raping someone'
In a phone call between Dr Mustafa and Mr Lipinski, Mr Lipinski talked about getting a rape pill to get information, and said its not about raping someone.
He said it was used by the army and psychiatrists to calm people down.
11:44
'She remembers nothing'
In a transcript of one conversation about what happens when someone has taken date rape drug GHB, the court heard, Mr Lipinski said: A man gives it to a woman, bangs and bonks her, she wakes up somewhere, in the bushes or on a bench.
She remembers nothing, absolutely nothing.
11:55 KEY EVENT
How police found the evidence on Dr Mustafa's phone
Dr Mustafa was successful in finding out about his wifes affair using the spy camera, Mr Thackray, prosecuting, said.
He said the case came to the attention of the police when the defendants mobile phone was provided to the police.
The defendant is a professional man who at the time lived in Hull with Renata and their younger daughter. Examination of the handset revealed the defendant had deployed an app that allowed him to monitor telephone calls and hed also, ironically, recorded his own conversations with others.
The case is founded on the content of those conversations, the prosecutor said.
12:59
The case is hearing further legal arguments at the moment.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/renata-majid-mustafa-hull-court-1433842
10:34
Jury sworn in
A jury of nine women and three men was sworn in at Doncaster Crown Court yesterday, and prosecutor John Thackray is expected to open the case this morning.
Before selection, jurors were asked if they knew of Renata, Dr Mustafa, or their two daughters. None said they did.
10:41
Representation for Dr Mustafa
Dr Mustafa is represented by Michael Bromley-Martin QC, and junior counsel Christopher Martin.
10:48
Jury has now entered the court
The jury has now entered the court.
The opening will be heard this morning.
10:59 KEY EVENT
Renata's husband 'tried to get date rape drug to use on his wife'
Dr Mustafa was obsessed about his suspicion that his wife, Renata, was having an affair, and recruited a friend, Robert Lipinski, to try to obtain a date rape drug so he could get access to her mobile phone with her fingerprint, the court heard.
11:06
Date rape drug was GHB
The date rape drug Dr Mustafa asked to get was GHB, which rapidly affects anyone who takes it and leaves them with little or no memory of the period in which they were affected by the drug, Mr Thackray, prosecuting, said.
Mr Lipinski, a Polish national, told Dr Mustafa the drug could also be used to interrogate someone who had taken it, and Dr Mustafa certainly didnt dissent, the court was told.
11:11
Dr Mustafa 'upset' about suspected affair
Dr Mustafa was understandably upset about the suspected affair - said to be with a man in Poland - and went to great lengths to try to find out the truth.
This included secretly recording Renata by placing a spy camera in their car and installing software on her computer.
11:19
Dr Mustafa recorded Renata's phone calls
Dr Mustafa also recorded Renatas phone calls with the use of other software.
Prosecuting, Mr Thackray told the jury: What the defendant wanted was for his wife to admit to him that she was having a sexual relationship with another man, and perhaps to tell him the extent of the relationship.
It may be, perhaps, he felt that only if he heard it straight from her would he really ever know the true and full position.
11:28
Dr Mustafa encouraged a friend to get the drug - prosecution
Mr Lipinski was also in an unhappy marriage and was thinking of doing the same to his wife, the court heard.
Mr Thackray said the prosecution did not have to prove the drug was ever obtained.
He told the jury: Its enough the prosecution prove, so that you are sure, that the defendant intentionally encouraged Lipinski to commit the offence.
11:34
'It's not about raping someone'
In a phone call between Dr Mustafa and Mr Lipinski, Mr Lipinski talked about getting a rape pill to get information, and said its not about raping someone.
He said it was used by the army and psychiatrists to calm people down.
11:44
'She remembers nothing'
In a transcript of one conversation about what happens when someone has taken date rape drug GHB, the court heard, Mr Lipinski said: A man gives it to a woman, bangs and bonks her, she wakes up somewhere, in the bushes or on a bench.
She remembers nothing, absolutely nothing.
11:55 KEY EVENT
How police found the evidence on Dr Mustafa's phone
Dr Mustafa was successful in finding out about his wifes affair using the spy camera, Mr Thackray, prosecuting, said.
He said the case came to the attention of the police when the defendants mobile phone was provided to the police.
The defendant is a professional man who at the time lived in Hull with Renata and their younger daughter. Examination of the handset revealed the defendant had deployed an app that allowed him to monitor telephone calls and hed also, ironically, recorded his own conversations with others.
The case is founded on the content of those conversations, the prosecutor said.
12:59
The case is hearing further legal arguments at the moment.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/renata-majid-mustafa-hull-court-1433842
Wow, there's quite a bit of info in your link. I don't know why he's been granted bail. Perhaps they don't think he's a danger to the wider community.
I'm completely dumbfounded as to why Lipinski had his charges dropped. And as to why this case has been shrouded in secrecy with reporting restrictions. It has the air of a spy thriller except there is no threat to national security and this is just a dentist and his mate right? I feel we are only getting a watered down version.
I'm completely dumbfounded as to why Lipinski had his charges dropped. And as to why this case has been shrouded in secrecy with reporting restrictions. It has the air of a spy thriller except there is no threat to national security and this is just a dentist and his mate right? I feel we are only getting a watered down version.
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[FONT=&]13:32[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Full details from this morning's court
Read the full details from everything that happened this morning here.
The trial is set to resume this afternoon.
[/FONT]14:22
Jury now returning into court
Detective Sergeant Michael Gotch, the officer in the case, is in the witness box.
14:32
Renata and Dr Mustafa 'tussle' over her phone
In a two-hour recording, Dr Mustafa accuses Renata of having an affair and she says prove it. He asks for her phone, Renata refuses but shows him her last calls. He asks to see her WhatsApp messages, but Renata refuses.
There is then a tussle for the phone and their daughter asks Dr Mustafa why he wont give Renata her phone back. He tells his daughter: Listen, darling, mum has a bloke in Poland.
14:44
Dr Mustafa tells Renata 'I can forgive you'
Three days after the couples tussle, there is a recorded call between Dr Mustafa and Robert Lipinski, in which Mr Lipinski says he has spoken to a man called Marius in Poland about getting the date rape drug GHB, and Dr Mustafa says super, super.
He says he had told Renata: I can forgive you everything youve done, we will forget, forget the whole thing and start again on different terms.
He tells Mr Lipinski: She f****** says to me she doesnt know if she is able to without talking to that guy.
14:48
Dr Mustafa and Renata married for more than 20 years in a 'normal family'
In police interview, Dr Mustafa says he met Renata when he went to study in Poland in 1985. At the time of the interview, the couple had known each other 29 years and been married for 23 years, he told police.
He said they moved to England when Poland joined the EU in about 2004, and had been in Hull for about seven years. He described them as a normal family and said they went on holiday to Italy every year.
14:49
Dr Mustafa a dentist
Dr Mustafa said he was studying for a masters in dentistry.
He said he was a dentist and also did cosmetic treatment.
14:51 KEY EVENT
Renata told her husband she wanted a divorce
Renata told Dr Mustafa she wanted a divorce, the court has heard.
He said he was told this at home on his birthday, January 28. He was getting ready to go out thinking they would have a meal together.
14:57
Dr Mustafa said 'idea of divorce was strange'
Dr Mustafa called the idea of divorce strange and told police: Theres no reason for that divorce.
He said he thought the idea would go after a few days, but it didnt and he tried to convince her to stay and tried to make her feel happy. His wife, Renata, said she wanted a divorce fast but denied having an affair, he said.
15:00
'Discussion does not mean fighting'
He said he then got a solicitors letter about a divorce and they talked about it all the time.
But discussion does not mean fighting, he said.
He said they had slept in separate bedrooms since Renata said she wanted a divorce, and they had not been intimate since.
15:06
Husband said Renata's behaviour had become 'very bad'
Dr Mustafa said Renatas behaviour towards him became very bad, including in front of the children.
15:09KEY EVENT
Husband secretly recorded Renata on phone to her lover
Dr Mustafa installed a spy camera in the car on April 14, 2017, and later that day it recorded her in Asda car park speaking in Polish on the phone to the man she was having an affair with.
Mr Thackray told the jury there was no dispute, but this was Renata expressing her love for [the other man]. Dr Mustafa told police: Then I know she is in affair. He said he was upset and crying.
He said the camera was supplied by Robert Lipinski.
15:20
Renata found husband's secret spy camera
Dr Mustafa told police the spy camera he used to record Renata was like a black phone charger and he used it three times: in the car, once in his bedroom when they were sitting talking, and once when he put it in her bedroom.
But he said Renata found it when it flashed after she put the light out in her room.
15:28
Mr Lipinski was Dr Mustafa's patient
Mr Lipinski, who Dr Mustafa allegedly tried to get date rape drug GHB to use on his wife, was one of Dr Mustafas patients, the court heard.
They knew each others families and had visited each others home.
The two had discussed the effects of GHB and the court earlier heard Mr Lipinski had spoken of thinking of doing the same to his wife.
15:45
Dr Mustafa: 'I would not give drugs to her'
Asked about putting a drug in Renatas drink, Dr Mustafa said he had not done that. He told police: I understand the investigation at the moment and how its important. Im professional.
I would never do such things like that, give her drugs and film her, to give her drugs and use it for sexual issues.
He said he might have been able to help if he could have had access to her phone.
He said he was concerned because she would take her phone into the toilet for 40 minutes. He said there were no drugs in his dental practice that could sedate anyone.
16:17
The court is having a short break.
16:34
Dr Mustafa says 'he wanted to help her'
Dr Mustafa agreed in police interview he was aware as a doctor and as a dentist there were ethical issues about when you could and could not give a patient drugs. The officer asked him: Do you think you can give Renata drugs in these circumstances?
He said: We cant say drugs because I dont believe they are drugs. Because her behaviour is not good I just tried to find something to help her as the only thing I wanted to do was get access to the phone and see whats going on.
Why she started to wear the necklace, put candles in strange places in the house.
16:39
Jury now gone home for the day
The jury has gone home for the day and the case is expected to resume at 10.30am on Wednesday.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/renata-majid-mustafa-hull-court-1433842
[FONT=&]Full details from this morning's court
Read the full details from everything that happened this morning here.
The trial is set to resume this afternoon.
[/FONT]14:22
Jury now returning into court
Detective Sergeant Michael Gotch, the officer in the case, is in the witness box.
14:32
Renata and Dr Mustafa 'tussle' over her phone
In a two-hour recording, Dr Mustafa accuses Renata of having an affair and she says prove it. He asks for her phone, Renata refuses but shows him her last calls. He asks to see her WhatsApp messages, but Renata refuses.
There is then a tussle for the phone and their daughter asks Dr Mustafa why he wont give Renata her phone back. He tells his daughter: Listen, darling, mum has a bloke in Poland.
14:44
Dr Mustafa tells Renata 'I can forgive you'
Three days after the couples tussle, there is a recorded call between Dr Mustafa and Robert Lipinski, in which Mr Lipinski says he has spoken to a man called Marius in Poland about getting the date rape drug GHB, and Dr Mustafa says super, super.
He says he had told Renata: I can forgive you everything youve done, we will forget, forget the whole thing and start again on different terms.
He tells Mr Lipinski: She f****** says to me she doesnt know if she is able to without talking to that guy.
14:48
Dr Mustafa and Renata married for more than 20 years in a 'normal family'
In police interview, Dr Mustafa says he met Renata when he went to study in Poland in 1985. At the time of the interview, the couple had known each other 29 years and been married for 23 years, he told police.
He said they moved to England when Poland joined the EU in about 2004, and had been in Hull for about seven years. He described them as a normal family and said they went on holiday to Italy every year.
14:49
Dr Mustafa a dentist
Dr Mustafa said he was studying for a masters in dentistry.
He said he was a dentist and also did cosmetic treatment.
14:51 KEY EVENT
Renata told her husband she wanted a divorce
Renata told Dr Mustafa she wanted a divorce, the court has heard.
He said he was told this at home on his birthday, January 28. He was getting ready to go out thinking they would have a meal together.
14:57
Dr Mustafa said 'idea of divorce was strange'
Dr Mustafa called the idea of divorce strange and told police: Theres no reason for that divorce.
He said he thought the idea would go after a few days, but it didnt and he tried to convince her to stay and tried to make her feel happy. His wife, Renata, said she wanted a divorce fast but denied having an affair, he said.
15:00
'Discussion does not mean fighting'
He said he then got a solicitors letter about a divorce and they talked about it all the time.
But discussion does not mean fighting, he said.
He said they had slept in separate bedrooms since Renata said she wanted a divorce, and they had not been intimate since.
15:06
Husband said Renata's behaviour had become 'very bad'
Dr Mustafa said Renatas behaviour towards him became very bad, including in front of the children.
15:09KEY EVENT
Husband secretly recorded Renata on phone to her lover
Dr Mustafa installed a spy camera in the car on April 14, 2017, and later that day it recorded her in Asda car park speaking in Polish on the phone to the man she was having an affair with.
Mr Thackray told the jury there was no dispute, but this was Renata expressing her love for [the other man]. Dr Mustafa told police: Then I know she is in affair. He said he was upset and crying.
He said the camera was supplied by Robert Lipinski.
15:20
Renata found husband's secret spy camera
Dr Mustafa told police the spy camera he used to record Renata was like a black phone charger and he used it three times: in the car, once in his bedroom when they were sitting talking, and once when he put it in her bedroom.
But he said Renata found it when it flashed after she put the light out in her room.
15:28
Mr Lipinski was Dr Mustafa's patient
Mr Lipinski, who Dr Mustafa allegedly tried to get date rape drug GHB to use on his wife, was one of Dr Mustafas patients, the court heard.
They knew each others families and had visited each others home.
The two had discussed the effects of GHB and the court earlier heard Mr Lipinski had spoken of thinking of doing the same to his wife.
15:45
Dr Mustafa: 'I would not give drugs to her'
Asked about putting a drug in Renatas drink, Dr Mustafa said he had not done that. He told police: I understand the investigation at the moment and how its important. Im professional.
I would never do such things like that, give her drugs and film her, to give her drugs and use it for sexual issues.
He said he might have been able to help if he could have had access to her phone.
He said he was concerned because she would take her phone into the toilet for 40 minutes. He said there were no drugs in his dental practice that could sedate anyone.
16:17
The court is having a short break.
16:34
Dr Mustafa says 'he wanted to help her'
Dr Mustafa agreed in police interview he was aware as a doctor and as a dentist there were ethical issues about when you could and could not give a patient drugs. The officer asked him: Do you think you can give Renata drugs in these circumstances?
He said: We cant say drugs because I dont believe they are drugs. Because her behaviour is not good I just tried to find something to help her as the only thing I wanted to do was get access to the phone and see whats going on.
Why she started to wear the necklace, put candles in strange places in the house.
16:39
Jury now gone home for the day
The jury has gone home for the day and the case is expected to resume at 10.30am on Wednesday.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/renata-majid-mustafa-hull-court-1433842
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[FONT=&]DAY 2
10:58[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Jury returning for second day of evidence
The jury is coming back into court on the second day of evidence in the trial of Dr Majid Mustafa.
Recap everything that happened in the first day here and below - we will bring you live updates as they come in.
[/FONT]11:01
Next witness is up
The next witness is Dr Stephanie Sharp, giving evidence over a TV link from Glasgow Sheriffs Court in Scotland.
11:09
Witness giving evidence about date rape drug GHB
Dr Sharp is giving evidence about the date rape drug GHB and told the court it is naturally occurring. She said when illicitly obtained it is odourless but has a taste of salt.
She said: What makes it an ideal date rape drug is if it is put in someones drink in liquid form, the alcohol flavour overtakes the saltiness of that drug and the victim or potential victim is not aware of it.
11:14
'GHB effect would be rapid'
Asked by prosecutor John Thackray how long it takes to have an effect, Dr Sharp said: It would be very, very rapid and unfortunately, the problem we have with GHB is it is very rapidly eliminated also, so you can incapacitate an individual very quickly, and they will come round very quickly.
People who have taken it would be completely unconscious and have amnesia, the doctor said.
11:21
'GHB effects would last for an hour'
GHB exists naturally in the body but when given in overdose can incapacitate, Dr Sharp said. Its effects would last for about an hour, the court heard.
11:30
Defence asking witness questions
Michael Bromley-Martin QC, defending, asked Dr Sharp: Could GHB be used in a low dosage to incapacitate someone for just so long as it would take to be able to place their finger on a mobile telephones password touchpad?
Dr Sharp said: Not having specific expertise in that particular area, I would go with my best [assessment] and say yes, that is possible. But I have never done it myself.
I should think not, said Mr Bromley-Martin.
11:38
Witness: 'GHB used for sex assault'
GHB can be given medically, to treat alcoholism, for example, but is not typically in such use in the UK, the doctor said. She said her only experience of it in the UK is unfortunately sexual assault cases.
11:49
Jury released until 2pm
The prosecution case has now closed and the jury has been released until 2pm while the court deals with legal issues.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/renata-majid-mustafa-hull-court-1433842
10:58[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Jury returning for second day of evidence
The jury is coming back into court on the second day of evidence in the trial of Dr Majid Mustafa.
Recap everything that happened in the first day here and below - we will bring you live updates as they come in.
[/FONT]11:01
Next witness is up
The next witness is Dr Stephanie Sharp, giving evidence over a TV link from Glasgow Sheriffs Court in Scotland.
11:09
Witness giving evidence about date rape drug GHB
Dr Sharp is giving evidence about the date rape drug GHB and told the court it is naturally occurring. She said when illicitly obtained it is odourless but has a taste of salt.
She said: What makes it an ideal date rape drug is if it is put in someones drink in liquid form, the alcohol flavour overtakes the saltiness of that drug and the victim or potential victim is not aware of it.
11:14
'GHB effect would be rapid'
Asked by prosecutor John Thackray how long it takes to have an effect, Dr Sharp said: It would be very, very rapid and unfortunately, the problem we have with GHB is it is very rapidly eliminated also, so you can incapacitate an individual very quickly, and they will come round very quickly.
People who have taken it would be completely unconscious and have amnesia, the doctor said.
11:21
'GHB effects would last for an hour'
GHB exists naturally in the body but when given in overdose can incapacitate, Dr Sharp said. Its effects would last for about an hour, the court heard.
11:30
Defence asking witness questions
Michael Bromley-Martin QC, defending, asked Dr Sharp: Could GHB be used in a low dosage to incapacitate someone for just so long as it would take to be able to place their finger on a mobile telephones password touchpad?
Dr Sharp said: Not having specific expertise in that particular area, I would go with my best [assessment] and say yes, that is possible. But I have never done it myself.
I should think not, said Mr Bromley-Martin.
11:38
Witness: 'GHB used for sex assault'
GHB can be given medically, to treat alcoholism, for example, but is not typically in such use in the UK, the doctor said. She said her only experience of it in the UK is unfortunately sexual assault cases.
11:49
Jury released until 2pm
The prosecution case has now closed and the jury has been released until 2pm while the court deals with legal issues.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/renata-majid-mustafa-hull-court-1433842
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Yeah, it does seem a lot more straightforward than I imagined. And he recorded these conversations?
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Have the charges changed from conspiracy to incitement?
That could explain why RL is no longer charged.
I've no idea about how this alters the seriousness of the offence.
That could explain why RL is no longer charged.
I've no idea about how this alters the seriousness of the offence.
This is just plain weird. Open and shut case I would say. Why all the fuss and delay? As I said just now, this has surely been watered down, but that is not to say the charges aren't serious, it's just not complete without Lipinski. He can provide the drugs and the spy cameras. I think he is being protected and that explains the secrecy.
Encouraging an offence? Not administering the drug himself? The offender no where to be seen?
:beamup:
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Thanks for all the updates Legally....
as Tortoise says, open and shut to me too.
This line stands out
Im professional.
I would never do such things like that, give her drugs and film her,
The irony - he thinks it's fine to try and gain access to her private phone and film her in the car, but as long as he is't drugging her for sexual purposes then that's ok, he is remaining professional.
as Tortoise says, open and shut to me too.
This line stands out
Im professional.
I would never do such things like that, give her drugs and film her,
The irony - he thinks it's fine to try and gain access to her private phone and film her in the car, but as long as he is't drugging her for sexual purposes then that's ok, he is remaining professional.
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Defence asking witness questions
Michael Bromley-Martin QC, defending, asked Dr Sharp: “Could GHB be used in a low dosage to incapacitate someone for just so long as it would take to be able to place their finger on a mobile telephone’s password touchpad?”
Dr Sharp said: “Not having specific expertise in that particular area, I would go with my best [assessment] and say yes, that is possible. But I have never done it myself.”
“I should think not,” said Mr Bromley-Martin
I dont get the Defence QC point here. It has already been shown that MM wanted the GHB to enable him to access RAs phone. Not sure why the QC is arguing that it can't be done.
Michael Bromley-Martin QC, defending, asked Dr Sharp: “Could GHB be used in a low dosage to incapacitate someone for just so long as it would take to be able to place their finger on a mobile telephone’s password touchpad?”
Dr Sharp said: “Not having specific expertise in that particular area, I would go with my best [assessment] and say yes, that is possible. But I have never done it myself.”
“I should think not,” said Mr Bromley-Martin
I dont get the Defence QC point here. It has already been shown that MM wanted the GHB to enable him to access RAs phone. Not sure why the QC is arguing that it can't be done.
I read it differently, that he was saying that it would be excusable if it was only to get her finger on the phone.
I must admit I don't see how that is any defence if so. It was a low dose and only lasted for a second. Does the jury really want to destroy his career over that...blah blah. And it seems MM's answer was it was ok because I wasn't going to rape her.I haven't checked sentencing guidelines yet but this seems to cover definitions of the offence he is charged with
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/inchoate-offences
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/inchoate-offences
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I can't find much for sentencing guidelines other than this (or similar to this):
I assume the offence would be the administering of a noxious substance, not just the supply of the noxious substance.
I assume the offence would be the administering of a noxious substance, not just the supply of the noxious substance.
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In each case it is a question of fact whether the accused has gone sufficiently far towards the full offence to have committed the actus reus of the attempt. If the accused has passed the preparatory stage, the offence of attempt has been committed and it is no defence that s/he then withdrew from committing the completed offence.
the above is from the section Attempting to Commit an Offence
surely the accused most definately passed the preparatory stage
the above is from the section Attempting to Commit an Offence
surely the accused most definately passed the preparatory stage
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