UK UK - Ruth Wilson, 16, Dorking, 27 Nov 1995

[jonmarbles]

je

Does anyone know how old Ruth's sister was when Ruth disappeared?

jenny was 13 i belive.

 

[Officer Dibble]

je

jenny was 13 i belive.

Thanks

 

[x_caz_x]

Hi All, I'm new to Websleuth, so please bare with me and forgive my rantings... My head is whirling with all different questions!

I've been reading all the comments and remarks made in this thread, but there are so many things that aren't clear or seem to have been set aside as insignificant.

1, Nesta Wilson's Death
To find out the truth behind a parents death, must have been traumatic. Has it ever been clarified how Ruth made the discovery? Who told her, and what exactly she was told? If it wasn't by Ian or Karen, then who? Did Nesta's biological family come looking for her? Did Ruth always know her Mother was adopted and go looking for Nesta's biological family? Has this avenue for disappearance ever been explored?

2, Karen Wilson
Marrying her Father, only a year after the death of her Mother, would raise many questions. This is such a short space of time, but believing that her Mother's death was due to an accident, Ruth may have never questioned this. However, discovering that her Mother's death was due to suicide, I have no doubt would have raised more questions for her; for example, Were Karen & Ian having an affair prior to Nesta's death? Was Nesta's death ever linked to an affair? Was there a suicide note left by Nesta? What did the suicide note say? Did Ruth find this and it's contents?

3, The purchase of the flowers.
Generally flowers are sent for birthdays, anniversaries, thank you's and other special occasions. No reports mention that buying flowers for her Stepmother was the "norm". I find this very significant.
I battle with the idea that this was a "goodbye" as it's meaning would not have come across, unless there was a note sent with the flowers (can't find any reports that mention this)?
Was the date itself significant between herself and her Stepmother? Possibly a secret only they knew? Possibly a date that Karen Wilson has not considered? Was it a thank you? For example, was it the date the previous year that she found out about the circumstances surrounding her Mother's death (this would be with the assumption that it was Karen Wilson that told her or said something that made Ruth delve into her Mother's death)? Or perhaps, something as simple as a truth or statement said that resonated with Ruth. Or perhaps a thank you for what was going to happen on that day?
I do not believe you would choose a specific delivery date, unless the date itself held meaning between you and the receiver (not necessarily profund, such as a birthday) or unless you didn't believe that person would be at home to receive them until that time.
Do we know what types of flowers she ordered? This may seem like a very small detail, but the flowers choosen may also reveal the intention behind them.

Think that's enough for now. Sorry again for the newbie rantings!

 

[JSolt1210]

I battle with the idea that this was a "goodbye" as it's meaning would not have come across, unless there was a note sent with the flowers (can't find any reports that mention this)?
Was the date itself significant between herself and her Stepmother? Possibly a secret only they knew? Possibly a date that Karen Wilson has not considered? Was it a thank you? For example, was it the date the previous year that she found out about the circumstances surrounding her Mother's death (this would be with the assumption that it was Karen Wilson that told her or said something that made Ruth delve into her Mother's death)? Or perhaps, something as simple as a truth or statement said that resonated with Ruth. Or perhaps a thank you for what was going to happen on that day?
I do not believe you would choose a specific delivery date, unless the date itself held meaning between you and the receiver (not necessarily profund, such as a birthday) or unless you didn't believe that person would be at home to receive them until that time.

I agree that the date has to have some meaning, and if it does, neither Karen or Ian is telling.

According to this article in The Sun: "Ruth had been told she died after falling down the stairs and breaking her neck, but in October 1995 she went to London to examine her mother's death certificate."

This is just one month before her disappearance—not a year—and this is confirmed by one of Ruth's friends: "Crucially, Catherine revealed that Ruth had found out about her mother’s suicide just before she disappeared. She was devastated. 'Ruth was really troubled,' she said. 'She had so much going on in her head that she was desperately trying to find out who she was. '"

My first thought, then, was: what if the delivery date was exactly one month after she examined the death certificate? But October 29 was a Sunday that year, so I doubt a library or public records place would've been open. (But could she maybe have gone on Friday, October 27, exactly one month before her disappearance?)

Another thought is that maybe the date is connected to the wedding anniversary of her father and stepmother. I've read that they were married "in the last quarter of 1983 in Surrey," i.e., October–December 1983. Maybe October/November 27/29?

I haven't found their marriage certificate, but Nesta's death certificate is public (see below). And I note that it was "certified to be a true copy" (whatever that means) on November 21, 2017—almost exactly two years before Ruth disappeared.

As for the meaning behind the flowers, Catherine agrees that they were a "dark practical joke," adding that they were a "two-fingers up kinda thing." I don't know what to make of that, though. Did Ruth blame Karen for maybe helping to cover up the truth about Nesta's death? But is that something Ian would've told Karen to begin with, like "hey, my first wife committed suicide." If the flowers are connected to Karen and Ian's wedding, could it have been a way for Ruth to slight her father, by addressing the flowers to Karen alone? That would qualify as a "two-fingers up kinda thing" for me.

 

[x_caz_x]

This is just one month before her disappearance—not a year—and this is confirmed by one of Ruth's friends: "Crucially, Catherine revealed that Ruth had found out about her mother’s suicide just before she disappeared. She was devastated. 'Ruth was really troubled,' she said. 'She had so much going on in her head that she was desperately trying to find out who she was. '"

Thank you for the clarification JSolt. I find the information from Catherine interesting... "She was desperately trying to find out who she was", could she have sought out her Mother's birth family?

 

[JSolt1210]

Thank you for the clarification JSolt. I find the information from Catherine interesting... "She was desperately trying to find out who she was", could she have sought out her Mother's birth family?

That's totally possible. Nesta's mom died when Ruth was about four years old, and the father decided to tell Ruth that the death was an accident. Did Nesta's (adoptive) family agree with this decision? And if not, did they stop all contact with him and, by extension, Ruth?

Or worse, did Nesta's family go along with the decision in order to remain in Ruth's life? If so, Ruth's discovery would've certainly made her feel like her whole "childhood was based on secrets and lies," as Catherine put it.

If Ruth wasn't already in contact with her mother's family, then I don't really think she tried looking for them because no one from that side of the family ever really came forward to say so.

But consider this: what if Ruth tried to reach out to them only to be told that, because Nesta was adopted, the authorities can't give out that info because they're not blood-related? (Would Ruth's age also come into play here?) If so, that could've made her feel desperate that she was never going to get the answers she needed.

 

[jonmarbles]

the thing is you couldent just go london and look at a death certificate in those days things may have changed now.

you wuld have request that a copy of the certificate be sent to you.

and where would ruth of had it sent to she wouldent of had it sent to her own address thats for sure.

 

[Plod]

the thing is you couldent just go london and look at a death certificate in those days things may have changed now.

you wuld have request that a copy of the certificate be sent to you.

and where would ruth of had it sent to she wouldent of had it sent to her own address thats for sure.

Maybe to Catherine’s house. I think that dad and step mum were seeing each other prior to mums death - could that have triggered the suicide? I believe the flowers were not sent out of fondness for the step mum - maybe they were Ruth’s mums favourite flowers, or some significance like flowers at the funeral or wedding, or whatever.

I believe Ruth fully planned to leave, with help from Catherine and her former boy friend, though possibly just her. I believe Catherine has kept the secret all these years.

 

[jonmarbles]

what i cant understand is why she suddenly became curious about her mums death in the first place i mean the story her dad told is a plausble one what would of led her to think it wasnt true after she had belived it for all those years.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Some great thoughts and questions - thanks to all above.

Wasn't there mention in the past of some CCTV footage from a newsagent nearby some time (how long?) after she went missing? It was thought to be her and the female was distressed in the shop. Since hearing about this I sometimes wonder, what if Ruth still lives nearby or even in the same county or just over the border in, say West Sussex or Hampshire (for instance as they are either side of Surrey) and still uses her real name? How often are people found to be living not far away and have never changed their mind? I was thinking this as the Dad and Stepmum didn't seem to be particularly proactive after she went missing - it would be easy to carry on as normal.

Do we know if she had a middle name?

 

[JSolt1210]

the thing is you couldent just go london and look at a death certificate in those days things may have changed now.

you wuld have request that a copy of the certificate be sent to you.

and where would ruth of had it sent to she wouldent of had it sent to her own address thats for sure.

That's a good catch! I didn't think of it at first, but it makes sense... I mean, I can't imagine what office here in the US you could just pop into and be like, "Hi, I wanna look at a death certificate." I agree with @Plod that it could've been mailed to Catherine's. In fact, it's Catherine who mentions when Ruth "examined her mum’s death certificate" in The Sun article. And if Catherine helped her with that, what else did she help her with?

 

[x_caz_x]

That's totally possible. Nesta's mom died when Ruth was about four years old, and the father decided to tell Ruth that the death was an accident. Did Nesta's (adoptive) family agree with this decision? And if not, did they stop all contact with him and, by extension, Ruth?

Or worse, did Nesta's family go along with the decision in order to remain in Ruth's life? If so, Ruth's discovery would've certainly made her feel like her whole "childhood was based on secrets and lies," as Catherine put it.

If Ruth wasn't already in contact with her mother's family, then I don't really think she tried looking for them because no one from that side of the family ever really came forward to say so.

But consider this: what if Ruth tried to reach out to them only to be told that, because Nesta was adopted, the authorities can't give out that info because they're not blood-related? (Would Ruth's age also come into play here?) If so, that could've made her feel desperate that she was never going to get the answers she needed.[/QUOTE

I found it interesting that Ruth travelled to London to discover contents of her Mother's death certificate. This information could have been obtained from her local office. As you suggested, maybe it was to find information surrounding the adoption/blood relatives of Nesta.

 

[x_caz_x]

Maybe to Catherine’s house. I think that dad and step mum were seeing each other prior to mums death - could that have triggered the suicide? I believe the flowers were not sent out of fondness for the step mum - maybe they were Ruth’s mums favourite flowers, or some significance like flowers at the funeral or wedding, or whatever.

I believe Ruth fully planned to leave, with help from Catherine and her former boy friend, though possibly just her. I believe Catherine has kept the secret all these years.

Having watched the documentary, I do feel that Catherine isn't telling everything. Perhaps being lenient with her answers, in case she says or suggests something that she promised to keep secret?

 

[x_caz_x]

what i cant understand is why she suddenly became curious about her mums death in the first place i mean the story her dad told is a plausble one what would of led her to think it wasnt true after she had belived it for all those years.

Absolutely! It is possible that a passing remark from someone who knew her Mother, mentioned suicide. This would be enough to raise her curiosity. If only we knew how she found this information, so frustrating!

 

[x_caz_x]

Some great thoughts and questions - thanks to all above.

Wasn't there mention in the past of some CCTV footage from a newsagent nearby some time (how long?) after she went missing? It was thought to be her and the female was distressed in the shop. Since hearing about this I sometimes wonder, what if Ruth still lives nearby or even in the same county or just over the border in, say West Sussex or Hampshire (for instance as they are either side of Surrey) and still uses her real name? How often are people found to be living not far away and have never changed their mind? I was thinking this as the Dad and Stepmum didn't seem to be particularly proactive after she went missing - it would be easy to carry on as normal.

Do we know if she had a middle name?

I've checked the FreeBMD database and this does not provide a middle name

FreeBMD Entry Info

 

[Plod]

Some great thoughts and questions - thanks to all above.

Wasn't there mention in the past of some CCTV footage from a newsagent nearby some time (how long?) after she went missing? It was thought to be her and the female was distressed in the shop. Since hearing about this I sometimes wonder, what if Ruth still lives nearby or even in the same county or just over the border in, say West Sussex or Hampshire (for instance as they are either side of Surrey) and still uses her real name? How often are people found to be living not far away and have never changed their mind? I was thinking this as the Dad and Stepmum didn't seem to be particularly proactive after she went missing - it would be easy to carry on as normal.

Do we know if she had a middle name?

The alleged sighting st the newsagent was a year after the disappearance- around the time of the first anniversary. According to the owner, the person apparently was looking in the local papers, which ran an article about her, and got upset.

Was it Catherine who lived or
Moved to Sheffield. My view is she followed her there - not sure she would risk living so close where she may bump into family or
Old acquaintances. Even 20 plus years on she would be recognised and just risks being discovered.

 

[jonmarbles]

The alleged sighting st the newsagent was a year after the disappearance- around the time of the first anniversary. According to the owner, the person apparently was looking in the local papers, which ran an article about her, and got upset.

Was it Catherine who lived or
Moved to Sheffield. My view is she followed her there - not sure she would risk living so close where she may bump into family or
Old acquaintances. Even 20 plus years on she would be recognised and just risks being discovered.

she moved to sheilfeild shortly before ruth went missing

 

[jonmarbles]

i cant help thinking that a lot of people in that documentry are not what they cliam to be ive got know real evdence for this though.

 

[Mrs Marple]

I can only think that someone must have told Ruth thr truth about her mother and that points to one of her peers or their parents who lived in the village at the time. I wonder if there was friction between Ruth and her father or if someone wanted revenge on the dad. Someone must have helped her. It seems quite cruel to leave the family not knowing all this time though; usually imagination is far worse than reality (usually).

 

[jonmarbles]

I can only think that someone must have told Ruth thr truth about her mother and that points to one of her peers or their parents who lived in the village at the time. I wonder if there was friction between Ruth and her father or if someone wanted revenge on the dad. Someone must have helped her. It seems quite cruel to leave the family not knowing all this time though; usually imagination is far worse than reality (usually).

the only problem is ruth dident live in betchford when her mum killed herself so nobody local should of known about it.