UK UK - Ruth Wilson, 16, Dorking, 27 Nov 1995

[alb1on]

can we be sure it was ruth that ordered those flowers there was no card attached.

i woul of assumed it was a cash transaction if so you cant be certan it was rth that sent them

Whilst a reasonable question, there is every reason to think it was Ruth Wilson who ordered the flowers. The most relevant facts to support this are;

• She took a taxi into Dorking at 11.30am and the flowers were ordered at 12 noon - so the timing of her arrival in Dorking (5 minutes by taxi) fits with her placing the order.
• Her other behaviour shows clear planning of her disappearance, including her conversations with her friends prior to the flower order, as well as her subsequent actions. It would be a huge coincidence if someone else was planning to harm her at the exact same time as she was planning to disappear.
• If the flowers were ordered by phone (which would be unlikely to be the case for Ruth ordering them as mobiles were still unusual and she was in Dorking at the time) then it is likely the order would have been via Interflora and this would show on the order and have been followed up by police. It would also have required a credit or debit card which would leave a trail.

 

[alb1on]

can we be sure it was ruth that ordered those flowers there was no card attached.

i woul of assumed it was a cash transaction if so you cant be certan it was rth that sent them

Whilst a reasonable question, there is every reason to think it was Ruth Wilson who ordered the flowers. The most relevant facts to support this are;

• She took a taxi into Dorking at 11.30am and the flowers were ordered at 12 noon - so the timing of her arrival in Dorking (5 minutes by taxi) fits with her placing the order.
• Her other behaviour shows clear planning of her disappearance, including her conversations with her friends prior to the flower order, as well as her subsequent actions. It would be a huge coincidence if someone else was planning to harm her at the exact same time as she was planning to disappear.
• If the flowers were ordered by phone (which would be unlikely to be the case for Ruth ordering them as mobiles were still unusual and she was in Dorking at the time) then it is likely the order would have been via Interflora and this would show on the order and have been followed up by police. It would also have required a credit or debit card which would leave a trail.

 

[jonmarbles]

you cant say what would or wouldent be followed up on by the police you would be amazed at what they somtimes dont follow up on what they follow up on depends on who is in chardge of the investigation,

 

[alb1on]

you cant say what would or wouldent be followed up on by the police you would be amazed at what they somtimes dont follow up on what they follow up on depends on who is in chardge of the investigation,

In this case I can have a better idea than in most cases. The original investigation has been the subject of cold case reviews at least twice in the intervening years. Even if something so obvious was not looked at in an initial investigation it is vanishingly unlikely that it would be missed three times. Additionally I live in Surrey and am well familiar with the shortcomings of Surrey Police (and have commented to that effect). However, whilst they are less than perfect (having an unfortunate habit of appointing senior leaders with personal problems) they are one of the better resourced and experienced forces and have close access to the resources and expertise of the Met Police. An indication of how seriously they took the original investigation is shown by the extent of the original search of the area, which included a detailed search of the quarry area (the only realistic area where a body would not be found by a member of the public) and the use of trained dogs. No police force is perfect, but Surrey Police has over 2000 staff, considerable expertise and an active local media looking over its work.

Your suggestion that police would have failed to look at the flower order in detail over the course of several seperate investigations and reviews presupposes a degree of incompetence which would be alarming in a local elected LE agency, never mind a large professional force.

 

[jonmarbles]

depends how seriously they took it as evdence even the best detectives make silly mistakes at times its not allways a matter of incompetence smtimes they just havent briefed each other properly information that should of been passed on lost in the system.

 

[Plod]

In this case I can have a better idea than in most cases. The original investigation has been the subject of cold case reviews at least twice in the intervening years. Even if something so obvious was not looked at in an initial investigation it is vanishingly unlikely that it would be missed three times. Additionally I live in Surrey and am well familiar with the shortcomings of Surrey Police (and have commented to that effect). However, whilst they are less than perfect (having an unfortunate habit of appointing senior leaders with personal problems) they are one of the better resourced and experienced forces and have close access to the resources and expertise of the Met Police. An indication of how seriously they took the original investigation is shown by the extent of the original search of the area, which included a detailed search of the quarry area (the only realistic area where a body would not be found by a member of the public) and the use of trained dogs. No police force is perfect, but Surrey Police has over 2000 staff, considerable expertise and an active local media looking over its work.

Your suggestion that police would have failed to look at the flower order in detail over the course of several seperate investigations and reviews presupposes a degree of incompetence which would be alarming in a local elected LE agency, never mind a large professional force.

The wikipedia report into her disappearance specifically says which shop the flowers were ordered from. I would think then that perhaps the shop owner was quizzed about who came in and placed the order. In 1995 it was common that orders were placed in person. Perhaps when the mysterious flowers arrived the family and friends were quizzed if any of them had sent them, leading the police to check with florist. Can you imagine - teenage daughter goes missing . No one knows if she has died and then suddenly a bunch of flowers turn up. The suspicion may have been a potential murderer sent them... and so I imagine the police had checked this out fully.
I still think she’s alive and went and made a new life for herself. It was all planned, someone picked her up and
Someone has been covering up for her all these years. Something was not right at home, leading her to want to disappear.

 

[jonmarbles]

that would depend weather the owner srved her or one of the staff and would depend weather they rembered eerybody they served that day it mayof been a fair while later when they were qustioned it would be very hard to rember everybody you served on any given day and exactly when you served them i doubt if i could.

 

[Plod]

A

that would depend weather the owner srved her or one of the staff and would depend weather they rembered eerybody they served that day it mayof been a fair while later when they were qustioned it would be very hard to rember everybody you served on any given day and exactly when you served them i doubt if i could.

Agreed , but the flowers were ordered a few days before disappearance. And perhaps
It was odd that a young teenager ordered them. U know how it might have triggered with sales assistant. Like wondering why teenager wasn’t at school for example? Or Dorking is a small town / she could have gone to same school as a child of the seller. I don’t know any more than you Marbles - I’m just throwing out possible scenarios.
Plus how did she pay? Bank statement? Etc

 

[nacentaeons]

The flowers were ordered in person. From the wiki:

At around 11.30 am, Wilson took a taxi into Dorking. Around midday, she ordered flowers for her stepmother from Thistles Florists at 257 Dorking High Street. Wilson asked that they not be delivered until the following Wednesday.

This is sourced from the BBC and the Guardian. It doesn’t say how she paid but at that time a person of that age would almost certainly have paid in cash.

 

[alb1on]

A

Agreed , but the flowers were ordered a few days before disappearance. And perhaps
It was odd that a young teenager ordered them. U know how it might have triggered with sales assistant. Like wondering why teenager wasn’t at school for example? Or Dorking is a small town / she could have gone to same school as a child of the seller. I don’t know any more than you Marbles - I’m just throwing out possible scenarios.
Plus how did she pay? Bank statement? Etc

Only small point is that Ruth Wilson was in what used to be called the Lower Sixth (in my day), the first of 2 years at A level. Once you enter the A level stream it is usual for pupils to only have to go into school when they have lessons. Even in my day (the 70s) you got some time off this way and my daughter (in the late noughties and in a school only 10 miles from Dorking) only seemed to spend half her time in school when doing A levels. So seeing 16-18 year olds around during the day would not have been unusual.

 

[Plod]

Only small point is that Ruth Wilson was in what used to be called the Lower Sixth (in my day), the first of 2 years at A level. Once you enter the A level stream it is usual for pupils to only have to go into school when they have lessons. Even in my day (the 70s) you got some time off this way and my daughter (in the late noughties and in a school only 10 miles from Dorking) only seemed to spend half her time in school when doing A levels. So seeing 16-18 year olds around during the day would not have been unusual.

Ok I was only s
Ok I was only second guessing how they got the information re her buying the flowers, but that’s something they seem quite sure about - the flowers came from her and were bought by her.

 

[nacentaeons]

Vanished - with Martin Bright

This podcast features an interview with Martin Bright - the journalist that made the Ruth Wilson documentary. Interestingly he believes that Ruth died.

 

[SAMS]

.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Vanished - with Martin Bright

This podcast features an interview with Martin Bright - the journalist that made the Ruth Wilson documentary. Interestingly he believes that Ruth died.

Very interesting! Thanks. Can anything or anyone force the police files to be opened again?

 

[alb1on]

My problem with the theory that she died is that it seems to be largely based on the absence of evidence for her being alive, which presumes she was not capable of managing her disappearance. I come at it from a different angle. If you commit suicide it is remarkably difficult (especially in the uk which is heavily populated, for that act to remain unknown. Similarly, if something had happened on Box Hill it would have been discovered for reasons previously discussed (thorough police searches including search dogs and the whole area being overrun during the 2012 Olympic cycle race). And I say this living near Box Hill. This seems only to leave the idea that she met with her death at the hands of a 3rd party who then disposed of the body so that it would not be found. It would be a remarkable coincidence if she planned her disappearance (which is clear) only to then find her path crossing with a murderer. Some of the behaviour of her friends also reminds me of the case of Anita Drake in the USA, where siblings and friends knew of her plans but kept quiet (and she successfully disappeared and lived for over 30 years, with her real identity unknown until her husband died nearly 50 years after she went missing).

So, on the balance of probability, I come down on the side of her being out there somewhere - and hopefully having a good laugh at all our efforts to find her.

 

[jonmarbles]

the bit about the neubor coming forward was intresting though i cant help thinking that martin bright has it in for her parents for some reason.

 

[Officer Dibble]

the bit about the neubor coming forward was intresting though i cant help thinking that martin bright has it in for her parents for some reason.

what is a neubor?

 

[Officer Dibble]

My problem with the theory that she died is that it seems to be largely based on the absence of evidence for her being alive, which presumes she was not capable of managing her disappearance. I come at it from a different angle. If you commit suicide it is remarkably difficult (especially in the uk which is heavily populated, for that act to remain unknown. Similarly, if something had happened on Box Hill it would have been discovered for reasons previously discussed (thorough police searches including search dogs and the whole area being overrun during the 2012 Olympic cycle race). And I say this living near Box Hill. This seems only to leave the idea that she met with her death at the hands of a 3rd party who then disposed of the body so that it would not be found. It would be a remarkable coincidence if she planned her disappearance (which is clear) only to then find her path crossing with a murderer. Some of the behaviour of her friends also reminds me of the case of Anita Drake in the USA, where siblings and friends knew of her plans but kept quiet (and she successfully disappeared and lived for over 30 years, with her real identity unknown until her husband died nearly 50 years after she went missing).

So, on the balance of probability, I come down on the side of her being out there somewhere - and hopefully having a good laugh at all our efforts to find her.

I think she is out there too and using her real name. I can't remember her middle name. Anyone know?

 

[Officer Dibble]

Has this been shared before?

I didn't realise about the two male friends. Also didn't realise about the guitar being electric. Why have there been no age progression images made?

MISSING: OPERATION SCHOLAR: RUTH WILSON

 

[jonmarbles]

an ae progression image was done but by the polie they dident seem intrested martin bright dident seem intrsted ethere fr some reason probely becouse he thinks shes dead.