GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[Marantz4250b]

I'd read somewhere that the sentencing was going to take two days. Can recall where though

Sarah Everard: Police officer Wayne Couzens pleads guilty to murder of 33-year-old

Sentencing was adjourned by the judge, Lord Justice Fulford, for a two-day hearing from 29 September, after discussing legal precedents for whole life sentences.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes, I think that was in the Times article.

So does all the evidence that's opened to the court become public information?

Everything said in court is public by definition. Barring orders otherwise by the judge, obviously.

 

[LucyRocket]

Is 2 days long ?

Not really in a guilty plea case. In the case of a trial the judge will have had weeks to listen to all the evidence and then will have days or sometimes even weeks between verdict and delivering sentence, to calculate what that sentence will be. In a guilty case they will present all the facts of the case to the judge, then both prosecution and defence will present reasons why the starting tariff should be increased/ reduced. The judge may respond to some of the points raised, then the judge will address the prisoner with a report on how he views him and his crimes and deliver him his sentence for the 3 separate charges. 2 days isn't long

 

[Stella123]

RSBM

IIRC you need to present a valid drivers licence to hire a car - so the mobile number wasn't the only "mistake"?

IMO what this shows is that he probably would have got away with this, if not for the bus CCTV capturing his plate - though presumably, having seen the car on the buss CCTV, that could have trolled other cameras to find another image of the potential car?

My impression from that was that the crucial mistake was that he ordered a roll of strong tape on the same day. So he couldn't make other excuses about why the car was hired. It showed he planned to do something. But yeah it could mean either or both - that the crucial error was during the process of hiring the car. Somewhere else I read that it was ordering the tape before the kidnapping that knocked his other story on the head (can't remember where now!)

"Three days before he kidnapped and murdered Sarah Everard, PC Wayne Couzens took a decisive step in his path to committing his crimes.

He hired a white Vauxhall Astra from Enterprise car hire in Dover, Kent, which he would use in the crimes. But as he went through the process of hiring the car, he made a crucial error that would lead to his detection and capture.

That day, 28 February 2021, the Metropolitan police officer also bought a roll of self-adhesive tape, strong enough to hold carpets down."

How a white Vauxhall Astra led police to Sarah Everard’s killer

 

[Dotta]

Not really in a guilty plea case. In the case of a trial the judge will have had weeks to listen to all the evidence and then will have days or sometimes even weeks between verdict and delivering sentence, to calculate what that sentence will be. In a guilty case they will present all the facts of the case to the judge, then both prosecution and defence will present reasons why the starting tariff should be increased/ reduced. The judge may respond to some of the points raised, then the judge will address the prisoner with a report on how he views him and his crimes and deliver him his sentence for the 3 separate charges. 2 days isn't long

And mitigating factors? And what about families and friends' statements? And the defendant statement? Thanks

 

[Dotta]

My impression from that was that the crucial mistake was that he ordered a roll of strong tape on the same day. So he couldn't make other excuses about why the car was hired. It showed he planned to do something. But yeah it could mean either or both - that the crucial error was during the process of hiring the car. Somewhere else I read that it was ordering the tape before the kidnapping that knocked his other story on the head (can't remember where now!)

"Three days before he kidnapped and murdered Sarah Everard, PC Wayne Couzens took a decisive step in his path to committing his crimes.

He hired a white Vauxhall Astra from Enterprise car hire in Dover, Kent, which he would use in the crimes. But as he went through the process of hiring the car, he made a crucial error that would lead to his detection and capture.

That day, 28 February 2021, the Metropolitan police officer also bought a roll of self-adhesive tape, strong enough to hold carpets down."

How a white Vauxhall Astra led police to Sarah Everard’s killer

But he had renovation works going on at home.

 

[Sherlockhames]

But he had renovation works going on at home.

Maybe there was no evidence of the carpet tape in his house. Which is where it should/would have been had this been it’s intended purpose. (Although likely this evidence didn’t come about until after he was already in custody, so the investigators are using it as evidence of intent. Along with the car hire. And if he is not talking and “no comment” in interviews etc then he has not refuted this piece of evidence with regards intent).

 

[Stella123]

I'll see if I can find the piece where it said the date of ordering the tape undermined later stories or something.

If any good comes out of this awful tragedy, it will be that the police are being investigated over possible failures in this case. And this article won't do them any favours either.

Ex wife of Police officer: Freya not her real name.

"She claimed he hit her repeatedly in angry outbursts and when she first complained to the police, after he threatened her with a knife, she was astonished at the reaction.


Freya told Sky News: "Two officers came to the house and did little more than tell him to go for a long walk to calm down."



"When she filed for divorce her husband raped her, she said, and even when she reported it to police nothing was done.

Freya said: "One officer told me I shouldn't make such allegations because it would bring the police service into disrepute. I felt quite threatened."


Ex-wife of police officer says force refused to do anything when he raped her

 

[annpats]

It is such a shame A piece of woodland is a paradise for children - they should play and relax there close to nature. It should be treasured and looked after. But instead a madman turned it into a rubbish site and a place to burn corpses

A lot of people go to privately owned (by a company) or small local woodlands for day trips etc. but random big forests and woods would be a no-go area for many people unless they were dog walking. A lot of people would feel too unsafe, and there is the issue of tresspassing.

 

[Dotta]

I'll see if I can find the piece where it said the date of ordering the tape undermined later stories or something.

If any good comes out of this awful tragedy, it will be that the police are being investigated over possible failures in this case. And this article won't do them any favours either.

Ex wife of Police officer: Freya not her real name.

"She claimed he hit her repeatedly in angry outbursts and when she first complained to the police, after he threatened her with a knife, she was astonished at the reaction.


Freya told Sky News: "Two officers came to the house and did little more than tell him to go for a long walk to calm down."



"When she filed for divorce her husband raped her, she said, and even when she reported it to police nothing was done.

Freya said: "One officer told me I shouldn't make such allegations because it would bring the police service into disrepute. I felt quite threatened."


Ex-wife of police officer says force refused to do anything when he raped her

I read somewhere that LE is high in the statistics of domestic violence. It is explained by high stressful jobs they have.

 

[Stella123]

I am still a bit confused that some reports say tape and some say film. Most reports say self adhesive carpet film - which is something like this - and yes could be used to cover car upholstery and carpets. Whereas tape suggests something to gag someone with. Annoying that the reports vary.

I'd have thought upholstery protection, on the same day as hiring the car, would seem more suspicious.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kenley-Adh...Carpet+Protection+Film&qid=1626096129&sr=8-10

 

[Stella123]

I read somewhere that LE is high in the statistics of domestic violence. It is explained by high stressful jobs they have.

I knew someone who had an ex boyfriend who was in the police. He stalked and harrassed her after she broke up with him for a while.

I think in WC's case, using his own details and bank card for hiring the car, shows a degree of arrogance - being untouchable. Thinking no one would suspect him and his position carried weight and authority. Arrogance can lead to carelessness and stupidity. On the other hand, people hire cars all the time and return them. He had the forethought to ensure no dna in the car by ordering the protective film. Why would anyone know? The buscam footage that night was absolutely crucial in identifying the number plate.

 

[Dotta]

I knew someone who had an ex boyfriend who was in the police. He stalked and harrassed her after she broke up with him for a while.

I think in WC's case, using his own details and bank card for hiring the car, shows a degree of arrogance - being untouchable. Thinking no one would suspect him and his position carried weight and authority. Arrogance can lead to carelessness and stupidity. On the other hand, people hire cars all the time and return them. He had the forethought to ensure no dna in the car by ordering the protective film. Why would anyone know? The buscam footage that night was absolutely crucial in identifying the number plate.

CCTV and buscams are a blessing There is a case Im following on WS of a murder of Maria Rawlings. The poor woman was snatched off the street and murdered in the bushes. BUT guess what? The whole incident was recorded by doorbell cams! And the perp was also recorded in the bus - the fool didnt wear a mask and his face was presented to the public. Sb recognized him and informed the police. Now, thank goodness, he is in jail awaiting trial. I know London has the highest number of cctv in Europe. When you leave home you are recorded by at least 30 cameras by the time you come home.

 

[tayaway]

I read somewhere that LE is high in the statistics of domestic violence. It is explained by high stressful jobs they have.

Police, prison personnel, military... have the highest stats for domestic abuse and it's not just about the stress of the job. If that were the case, emergency response teams would be beating/killing their spouses in high numbers as well. There are so many variables, including their authority and power over others, and the state of mind you're in when you're a cop or military personnel. ...and then there's the power of the police force/military unit protecting the abuser. Holy , the horrific case of the 18/19 year old female being held hostage by the cop and prostituted out... ?! Too much power and little checks and balances!

 

[Dotta]

Police, prison personnel, military... have the highest stats for domestic abuse and it's not just about the stress of the job. If that were the case, emergency response teams would be beating/killing their spouses in high numbers as well. There are so many variables, including their authority and power over others, and the state of mind you're in when you're a cop or military personnel. ...and then there's the power of the police force/military unit protecting the abuser. Holy ****, the horrific case of the 18/19 year old female being held hostage by the cop and prostituted out... ?! Too much power and little checks and balances!

You are absolutely right! Besides, power hungry people are drawn to these formations like bees to honey.

 

[tayaway]

You are absolutely right! Besides power hungry people are drawn to these formations like bees to honey.

You raise another good point. So, how do we change this system, which prevails in many countries around the world? It won't bring back Sarah, but maybe it'll prevent further deaths.

 

[Marantz4250b]

And mitigating factors? And what about families and friends' statements? And the defendant statement? Thanks

Stuff like that doesn't count as mitigating factors. They have to be facts connected to the crime or efforts to end the investigation quickly. So, if he'd admitted guilt immediately and given a full explanation of what he did and how it all went down those might count in his favour as regards sentencing. As it is he lied from the outset, inventing some utterly ridiculous story about Eastern European pimps/traffickers and has apparently said very little, if anything further. I'm at a loss to see anything here that is remotely capable of counting as a mitigating factor for his crimes.

 

[Stella123]

That raises an interesting point. As part of vetting they could do psychometric tests (if they don't already). But is it the case that they are like that when they join - or become like that after having power and authority for a while. Or a bit of both. Also, I'm aware for the forces, they actually want some aggressive types - to do some of the conflict type jobs. Some of the best fighter pilots used to be absolute xxxx's personality wise. (From some minor personal knowledge) and have no fear. Having said that I was unaware of any issues of dv within the fighter pilot community.

 

[Dotta]

Stuff like that doesn't count as mitigating factors. They have to be facts connected to the crime or efforts to end the investigation quickly. So, if he'd admitted guilt immediately and given a full explanation of what he did and how it all went down those might count in his favour as regards sentencing. As it is he lied from the outset, inventing some utterly ridiculous story about Eastern European pimps/traffickers and has apparently said very little, if anything further. I'm at a loss to see anything here that is remotely capable of counting as a mitigating factor for his crimes.

Thanks I know nothing about English trials. But I remember American trial of De Angelo - and letters of his family were presented (I think it was counted as mitigating factors)

 

[Italia]

According to Times today, police are now looking at past unsolved cases …