GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[Dotta]

And DID is different to psychosis, obviously a personality disorder rather than a ‘mental disorder’ and of course different again to mental illness of bipolar - the wife suggested he has manic depression. Lots in the pot. Could have both psychiatric mental illness and personality disorder of course. Or one with symptoms of the other and vice versa.

I guess at this rate they might run out of mental illnesses to choose from!

 

[Italia]

Question remains is it severe enough to account for diminished or a lack of mens rea of intent to kill/GBH- no- he pled guilty to murder, these were not invoked. Is it enough to offer as mitigation in sentencing ? Depends on the psychiatric reports .

 

[Dotta]

It’s possible his defence counsel has instructed a therapist/psychiatrist who will diagnose DID or other. Not a question of bring ‘duped’ in that context.

Sure, he was sent to psychiatric assessement.

 

[Sherlockhames]

It’s possible his defence counsel has instructed a therapist/psychiatrist who will diagnose DID or other. Not a question of bring ‘duped’ in that context.

Also possible that the defence counsel in this instance is trying to work in everyone’s best interests and that, in part, by requesting lots of psychiatric reports he is actually trying to get the truth out of WC. WC has pleaded guilty, but has apparently not yet told the whole story. Perhaps with psychological investigation he can begin to come to terms with what he has done and therefore, in turn, admit what he did.

(That Canadian case of the serial killer who had apparently led an unblemished and productive life up until he started his criminally deviant acts is SO fascinating. It is SO similar. Although in the case of Russell Williams it looks like he was slightly brighter individual and therefore was sadly able to commit 2 murders before he was caught - rather than just the one in this case).

 

[Dotta]

(That Canadian case of the serial killer who had apparently led an unblemished and productive life up until he started his criminally deviant acts is SO fascinating. It is SO similar).

It might be connected to dementia.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I think the most likely explanation for the talk of DID is that the very lay terms 'split personality' or 'multiple personality' are being used by WC's wife and her family in the course of trying to come to terms with what he's done, as compared with the family man they thought they knew. They are engaged in a kind of grief process and are having to travel at warp speed from denial to acceptance, and also having to find ways to talk to his children about it all. The idea that he was two (or more) very separate people because of a psychiatric disorder that isn't his 'fault' must be a very attractive narrative for them right now, and who can blame them.

I think the lay language is your clue that this isn't coming from a psychiatrist, and the guilty plea makes it clear that no one is expecting anything to come out that mitigates his actions from a psychiatric perspective. If it's true that he's working with psychiatrists, then I think it's probably, as @Sherlockhames says, that they are trying to get him to accept what he did enough that he will share detailed information with investigators, probably in conjunction with trying to mitigate suicide risk.

JMO

[edited for clarity]

 

[Nina2021]

He may have been spiraling out of control, but I don't believe he was psychotic when he planned and carried out his crimes. He went to great lengths to plan and cover up the murder. He lied to detectives because he knew what he did was wrong and shameful. There is no indication that he was seeing or hearing things that weren't there. He invented the story about being threatened by sex traffickers, maybe based on his own experiences with sex workers. He probably had a whole library full of .

He may have a personality disorder or depression, but I think his actions show he was of sound mind when he carried out the murder. Maybe he had a breakdown and could no longer get gratification from flashing, or whatever he usually did for satisfaction. He may have fantasized for a long time before actually carrying out the crime. It was sexually motivated, and he did it because he wanted to. That's the part he doesn't want to admit. The only thing wrong with his thinking was that it was twisted and evil.

IMO

Definitely twisted and evil.

Need for power, sense of importance, antisocial features, sadism...
Some of these elements could match the spectrum of malignant/pathological narcissism, just my opinion.

 

[CriLondon]

Maybe I missed some things along the way but ... how do you go from flashing in 2015 to the same thing in 2021 ? Nothing in between ?
Was he medically treated during this time ?

 

[Dotta]

Maybe I missed some things along the way but ... how do you go from flashing in 2015 to the same thing in 2021 ? Nothing in between ?
Was he medically treated during this time ?

That is the Question!

 

[CriLondon]

That is the Question!

Reminds me somewhat of the Germanwings tragedy . Breaking Doctor/patient confidentiality in that case would have been key to prevention.

 

[Dotta]

Reminds me somewhat of the Germanwings tragedy . Breaking Doctor/patient confidentiality in that case would have been key to prevention.

And why would he go to therapy? I mean nobody had the guts to tell him bluntly that sth was wrong. Not his colleagues ("incidents" not investigated), nor his wife and her family (spoke highly of him), nor his family it seems. A person needs pressure and family cooperation to start treatment. I bet everybody saw that sth was off but turned their heads away.

 

[cestmoi]

Maybe I missed some things along the way but ... how do you go from flashing in 2015 to the same thing in 2021 ? Nothing in between ?
Was he medically treated during this time ?

I would hope he was undergoing regular medicals as standard, for his employer. I read somewhere that he had failed a medical but I think that was many years back when he was working at Dungeness. I'd wondered whether he failed due to physical issues or mental ones, but we may never know.

The truth is that employer medicals don't always catch everything. Some of them are not robust at all, especially if they are an "update medical" with comprehensive ones only required every few years. (I don't know what the Met Police requires.) I work in a profession where medicals are required from time to time and have seen how people are able to get those to pass even where there is an issue that should be reported (I do not recommend or condone this!).

 

[CriLondon]

And why would he go to therapy? I mean nobody had the guts to tell him bluntly that sth was wrong. Not his colleagues ("incidents" not investigated), nor his wife and her family (spoke highly of him), nor his family it seems. A person needs pressure and family cooperation to start treatment. I bet everybody saw that sth is off but they turned their heads away.

He might have sought help himself and treated for depression , not necessarily related to sexual behaviour .
What if he KNEW a doctor personally as well.
Just an idea .

But the wife did say that he could have some mood swings at times , or am i wrong ?

 

[CriLondon]

I would hope he was undergoing regular medicals as standard, for his employer. I read somewhere that he had failed a medical but I think that was many years back when he was working at Dungeness. I'd wondered whether he failed due to physical issues or mental ones, but we may never know.

The truth is that employer medicals don't always catch everything. Some of them are not robust at all, especially if they are an "update medical" with comprehensive ones only required every few years. (I don't know what the Met Police requires.) I work in a profession where medicals are required from time to time and have seen how people are able to get those to pass even where there is an issue that should be reported (I do not recommend or condone this!).[/QUOTE]

Bbm - Unfortunately I see this in my line of work as well , some things are just not screened for or evaluations made .
But then again , I don't know Met Police standards , not even as far as recurring medicals .

 

[cestmoi]

He might have sought help himself and treated for depression , not necessarily related to sexual behaviour .
What if he KNEW a doctor personally as well.
Just an idea .

But the wife did say that he could have some mood swings at times , or am i wrong ?

In the UK we have the choice of using the NHS (national health service) which is publicly funded, or accessing private health services of our choice. Due to our data protection laws, it's possible to keep any access to private services completely separate and confidential from our NHS records. If he was asked to complete a medical at work, it would be entirely possible to simply omit mentioning that there are private medical records as well. You can see the problem.

I believe his wife said he was depressed at times. I didn't see her comments as particularly concerning, as depressive symptoms are so very commonplace. Particularly for people in high-stress jobs like the police. I can imagine she would also be desperately trying to think of some sign, some clue that would make this whole thing make more sense for her.

 

[MsBetsy]

Definitely twisted and evil.

Need for power, sense of importance, antisocial features, sadism...
Some of these elements could match the spectrum of malignant/pathological narcissism, just my opinion.

Yes, I think many sex offenders have an antisocial or borderline personality disorder. That may explain how Couzen's came across as a "fine upstanding man" to some, and an insecure bully to others.

He claims he's remorseful, yet he lied and deceived police right up until the end. He's probably just sorry he got caught because now everybody knows the details of his despicable acts. The one thing narcissists fear most is being exposed for who they really are. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe I missed some things along the way but ... how do you go from flashing in 2015 to the same thing in 2021 ? Nothing in between ?
Was he medically treated during this time ?

I doubt he would have sought treatment. He may have committed similar acts before or since 2015 and just wasn't caught. Or he may have gone through long periods where he was able to control his urges. Imo

 

[Italia]

And why would he go to therapy? I mean nobody had the guts to tell him bluntly that sth was wrong. Not his colleagues ("incidents" not investigated), nor his wife and her family (spoke highly of him), nor his family it seems. A person needs pressure and family cooperation to start treatment. I bet everybody saw that sth was off but turned their heads away.

Because he is ostensibly ill.. they would have to refer for treatment of some sort

 

[cestmoi]

He claims he's remorseful, yet he lied and deceived police right up until the end.

His lawyer is actually the one who claimed WC is remorseful. The only words we're told that WC has said are "I deserve it". IMO there is a massive difference between being remorseful, and acknowledging the consequence of an action. He was a police officer. Actions are deemed right or wrong, and wrong actions incur a consequence. All WC has done is acknowledge he did a thing that is deemed wrong and thus he is being given a consequence. There's zero remorse in any words that we've been told he has said. I will kindly acknowledge there may be more that he has said and expressed which could show true remorse, but I see no remorse in the words we know he has said.

 

[Dotta]

Because he is ostensibly ill.. they would have to refer for treatment of some sort

I answered the post concerning the time 2015 - 2021 before the murder. Not now