Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #11

[Rosegold68]

Even handcuffed she could still shoulder charge into him/throw herself onto the steering wheel to try make him lose control of the car

everyone behaves differently when fear strikes....you may think thats what she could do,but she might have just froze.

 

[Lyanna]

dbm

 

[Satchie]

If he used force to get her in the car, I am wondering if he knocked a tooth out. I know blood may indicate a struggle, but would it indicate ‘beyond reasonable doubt’?

So sad, however anything happened. I really hope she wasn’t conscious.

I'm quoting you, but not particularly addressing you.

I think most people want to glide over the details of what happened to the victim in these circumstances, what she experienced. Media never used to publish any details. A guy like Ted Bundy has got his smiling face all over the media for having killed women, but the details of what he did to them before killing them is never discussed. So it's all clean and PG 12, I guess.

But I'm feeling like the details need to be released, and people need to know. This is not a bop on the head or a hasty strangulation like you see on TV. IMO someone kidnaps a young woman for a truly shocking purpose and I feel people need to understand how horrific that usually is.

I'm open to receiving feedback.

 

[MsBetsy]

I can't help but think if the two front doors were open, to me that screams someone flinging the door open to escape and the driver jumping out to catch leaving the drivers door open also. Given that we don't know the timings between the two bus sightings, or whether the car had moved, I think it's plausible.

Edited because you're right, we don't know the times between the bus sightings. A bus cam captured the car with the hazards at 9:35, and then another captured the car with both doors open but it doesn't say what time.

But I do think it's possible she tried to flee and he went after her, and it's also possible they were both in the car at that time. It's also possible that there is a lot more surveillance footage we don't know about. Imo

 

[Skigh]

Sarah Everard: Met criticised over Clapham vigil policing

I don't think the met have done themselves any favours with handling of the vigil in London. Moo

The BBC do have their own agenda.

The met did not want this to take place and it was taken over by people with extreme political views of their own .
It is my view that a small minority were there not for
Sarah's vigil or for women's right to be safe,but for their anti government and police agenda. Political activists out to create difficulties for the police.

 

[LeopardLeotard]

Just a thought, but you can get hold of some pretty shocking things if you know where to look, I remember when I visited Ransgate a few years ago, they had like an army supplies shop,air rifles, knives, knuckle dusters combat gear you get the idea, and also obvs online, I'm sure it can't be that difficult to get a tazer, or something to that effect, he could have had anything nowadays doesn't have to be from his work, and I don't think it likely he could of got her to drink something, his behavior seems more erratic than to go through the trouble of charming/duping her into car, he had to have incapacitated her imo

 

[LeopardLeotard]

Just a thought, but you can get hold of some pretty shocking things if you know where to look, I remember when I visited Ransgate a few years ago, they had like an army supplies shop,air rifles, knives, knuckle dusters combat gear you get the idea, and also obvs online, I'm sure it can't be that difficult to get a tazer, or something to that effect, he could have had anything nowadays doesn't have to be from his work, and I don't think it likely he could of got her to drink something, his behavior seems more erratic than to go through the trouble of charming/duping her into car, he had to have incapacitated her imo

*Ramsgate

 

[sundaaaay]

I really like the previous poster (can’t remember who, thread is moving fast!) mentioning that some Astra’s have only two doors and you go through the front door to access the back seats. Obvious we don’t know if this was the case yet, but it makes getting out of a car much more difficult if your sitting there.

 

[davidattenborough]

davidattenborough said: ↑
Yep, but that would be kidnapping "by fraud." The charge sheet states it was kidnapping "by force." They are the two elements of kidnapping according to UK law - it has to be one or the other.

You are assuming the reason she got into the car in that scenario is because she was frauded into it, but that isn't necessarily the case.

@SveJeMoguce Well I'm not sure what scenario is being put forward. "Coercing somebody under false pretences" is pretty much the same as saying "Forcing somebody under false pretences" - I don't understand how that can work? Verbally coercing somebody would be fraud - e.g., "Come on, get in the car, I'm a police officer and I'll take you home" is very different to physically coercing somebody under false pretences - e.g., physically forcing somebody into the car while saying "I'm a police officer and I'll take you home" - not sure I understand what you're getting at to be honest, or what scenario you're proposing.

 

[LeopardLeotard]

A lot of seaside towns have those shops, not deal lol but maybe Dover?

Just a thought, but you can get hold of some pretty shocking things if you know where to look, I remember when I visited Ransgate a few years ago, they had like an army supplies shop,air rifles, knives, knuckle dusters combat gear you get the idea, and also obvs online, I'm sure it can't be that difficult to get a tazer, or something to that effect, he could have had anything nowadays doesn't have to be from his work, and I don't think it likely he could of got her to drink something, his behavior seems more erratic than to go through the trouble of charming/duping her into car, he had to have incapacitated her imo

 

[Joolz1975]

I'm quoting you, but not particularly addressing you.

I think most people want to glide over the details of what happened to the victim in these circumstances, what she experienced. Media never used to publish any details. A guy like Ted Bundy has got his smiling face all over the media for having killed women, but the details of what he did to them before killing them is never discussed. So it's all clean and PG 12, I guess.

But I'm feeling like the details need to be released, and people need to know. This is not a bop on the head or a hasty strangulation like you see on TV. IMO someone kidnaps a young woman for a truly shocking purpose and I feel people need to understand how horrific that usually is.

I'm open to receiving feedback.

More information will come out at trial, until then we are unlikely to hear very much more at all.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

The tooth theory... just seems a strange thing to come up with

I am Aspergic. I like details. I was just thinking about blood originally, and how gloriously healthy Sarah looked. Then thinking blood was not viewable on photos. Then thinking small amounts of blood could be an off-camera stumble in the defence view.

Then, if force, a tooth. Or maybe hair with roots. Imo, less easy to explain away by chance.

 

[tyler11]

Just speculation,
Could WC have been acting as a taxi/Uber? Or even doing some work as an Uber? I understand with Uber you can clock on and work as little or as much as you like. Would also explain the hire car as I think you need to have a newish car to be accepted?
Also links in to the tweet that says what was heard in court was ‘scary’.
Could have been registered under a fake id?
Explains the hazard lights with doors open etc
Could SE have booked a taxi after she got off the phone? Was she planning on getting a taxi home but decided to walk a bit while talking to her boyfriend first? I understand the walk was 50minutes otherwise which is quite a way.
Just speculation, just my thoughts

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Does anyone know if handcuffing would count as 'force'?

I'm increasingly of the opinion that this may have been a more 'typical' case of kidnap that one would see on TV but also interested to know the limits/scope of such words

Handcuffing is force, but just one of so many types of force available.

Handcuffing someone who doesn't want to be handcuffed can be a real struggle, particularly if one is operating alone.

There are far easier ways of getting instant control over someone, particularly if there is an imbalance in height and weight.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

*Ramsgate

As far as I know, armed police would have a tazer. I'm pretty sure in all possibilities a guy twice her size wouldn't need that but he may have had it.

 

[LeopardLeotard]

As far as I know, armed police would have a tazer. I'm pretty sure in all possibilities a guy twice her size wouldn't need that but he may have had it.

BUT surely that's signed in and out, and if he was under surveillance surely they would have been ultra tight on that x

 

[Urbanfox1]

Does anyone know if handcuffing would count as 'force'?

I'm increasingly of the opinion that this may have been a more 'typical' case of kidnap that one would see on TV but also interested to know the limits/scope of such words

I can’t access Lexis to find an authority but I think almost certainly yes. The force will be the act of putting the handcuffs on and then driving away, depriving of liberty etc as per legal formula of the crime this is JMO as I can’t check the legal authorities but I’d be surprised if this was an incorrect analysis

 

[wackyw]

If she ended up getting into the car in the front seat she must have been incapacitated/dead/unconscious before entering the car surely

Even with child locks on the doors she is still likely to make an attempt to grab the wheel, make the car swerve all over the place, or try and bite his arm to again cause an accident

I think there's a reasonable possibility she opened the car door herself due to concern he was having "a breakdown" ( he obviously had, errr.. problems), or to castigate him if he had his pants down/open again. She may have been only leaning in when he has grabbed her hair and then gone on to punch her unconscious. This would explain why the passenger door was still open, and he has to get out of the drivers side to then go round and bundle her in and close the passenger door before returning to the drivers side to get in and drive away, hence explaining both doors being open at the same time. All my speculation only.

 

[Satchie]

everyone behaves differently when fear strikes....you may think thats what she could do,but she might have just froze.

But a kidnapper couldn't know that. A 50ish kidnapper with his whole life to lose is not going to risk being caught trying to kidnap someone. He's only going to do it if he can completely control what happens.

MOO

 

[davidattenborough]

"Sickness during work
If you become ill while you are at work, your line manager may send you home. Unless this
becomes a pattern, this will not count towards sickness absence and you do not need to
update the portal"

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/foi-media/metropolitan-police/disclosure_2018/may_2018/information-rights-unit---policysop-that-refer-to-case-conferences-for-sickness#:~:text=Phone%3A%2078222%20(external%3A%200207,2222)%20and%20choose%20option%201.&text=If%20you%20become%20ill%20while,manager%20may%20send%20you%20home.&ved=2ahUKEwiws96Jta7vAhUySxUIHTv7ApYQFjABegQIARAG&usg=AOvVaw14s3Q6VffXOUhOt7La4TGN
Met Police policy is that being sent home from work is not considered sick leave therefore day 1 of sick leave I would interpret as the next shift they are due to be in. I would expect them to call in sick for their next shift.

In conclusion, WC could have been sent home early on the 2nd. He could have started a 12 hour shift without finishing it and then phoned in sick on 5th. There is no information that stays he finished the 12 hour shift. Unless anyone has this info? Jmo

Why would he do this?