Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #12

[Tortoise]

Does anyone have access to Westlaw in order to look for previous cases that WC may have been involved in?

I don't think it would be prudent to discuss any findings on the public threads, after the warning from the Attorney General. JMO

 

[JuicyLucy]

This might be of interest, as many seem to have heard of 'fight or flight' but not the other natural responses you can have to violence.

'Fight or flight' response | Rape Crisis England & Wales


"'Fight or flight' response

The 'fight or flight' response is how people sometimes refer to our body's automatic reactions to fear. There are actually 5 of these common responses, including 'freeze', 'flop' and 'friend', as well as 'fight' or 'flight'.
The freeze, flop, friend, fight or flight reactions are immediate, automatic and instinctive responses to fear. Understanding them a little might help you make sense of your experiences and feelings.

• Fight: physically fighting, pushing, struggling, and fighting verbally e.g. saying 'no'.
• Flight: putting distance between you and danger, including running, hiding or backing away.
• Freeze: going tense, still and silent. This is a common reaction to rape and sexual violence. Freezing is not giving consent, it is an instinctive survival response. Animals often freeze to avoid fights and potential further harm, or to 'play dead' and so avoid being seen and eaten by predators.
• Flop: similar to freezing, except your muscles become loose and your body goes floppy. This is an automatic reaction that can reduce the physical pain of what's happening to you. Your mind can also shut down to protect itself.
• Friend: calling for a 'friend' or bystander for help, for example by shouting or screaming, and/or 'befriending' the person who is dangerous, for example by placating, negotiating, bribing or pleading with them. Again, this is not you giving your attacker consent, it is an instinctive survival mechanism.
• "

This is really interesting and so true. I was mugged back in the day, not a million miles from where Sarah disappeared actually, and because I was young and feisty in those days my instinct was to fight. I vividly remember shouting 'F*** Off' twice at my mugger (which in fairness is pretty much my stock response to anything unexpected) and trying to get my bag away from him. But then suddenly it occurred to me he might have a knife and that fighting wasn't a very smart thing to do, and in that moment everything became like a slow motion sequence. I've never heard of 'Flop' but this is literally what happened next. Having made a conscious decision not to resist anymore, my arm went completely slack and I remember him pulling my bag strap along the whole length of it while I just stared at it in disbelief like it was a disembodied limb. I've always felt that was a really weird way to behave, and even caught myself thinking that he must have thought I was a complete nitwit (which tells you something about the mountain of social conditioning teaching women to fret endlessly about what people think of them ffs). Good to know it's a completely normal variation on Fight vs Flight, and I'm not a weirdo nitwit!

 

[Urbanfox1]

It really depends what junction he went to but it's about 15 miles to the direct nearest around would be 30 mins to an hour depending on traffic, likely on the lower end during lockdown and at that time.

I’m sorry this is my fault as I posted an old thread by mistake which I went back to edit. So best if you reply to the OP

 

[supersleuth123]

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that after all this time, I have just discovered two things quite interesting about Poynders Court.

1. There is a bus stop directly opposite. I can't believe I hadn't clocked this, I'm sure lots of you had. Buses in London regularly stop at almost all stops (because there's almost always someone either wanting to get on or off). So, if it did stop a) it's far more likely we'd have a witness, and b) the bus camera footage would be 10-15 seconds long (or however long it takes to stop) whereas I had always assumed it was 'passing' (very short) footage. However, seeing as there aren't witnesses (we don't believe), it's just another example of SE's horrendous bad luck!?

2. OK this one I am really mortified I didn't notice before. You can go *all the way* around the back of Poynders Court on Google Street view. I don't yet have any extra theories or knowledge off the back of this, and perhaps you all already knew this (I didn't!!), but it's quite useful for getting a 'feel' for the event that the accused either a) drove the car around there and 'parked' in the turn-in 90 degrees (some people have suggested this), or b) that SE ended up running into there (hence the forensic search). Anyway, can't believe I hadn't noticed you can Street View it, happy sleuthing.

 

[Skigh]

The patterned clothing looks very similar to her trousers? But can’t imagine if so they would just discard on the floor, surely?!

If they thought they could have found her clothes it would be so significant they would not be being handled by a uniformed officer. Forensics would be called immediately and the whole area closed and taped.

 

[Newthoughts]

This is an excellent point, how can she assist an alleged offender if she hasn't been questioned?

Could it simply be that they needed her out of the house for the full search to take place? Maybe she said she had nowhere to go, so they arrested her on the off chance as much for her safety (somewhere to go while they arrange a place for her to stay) and their logistics (get her out of the house) as anything?

Or maybe it's as simple as she said to the police "no, don't arrest him, he's done nothing wrong" or in her panic shouted at him to "run" (or similar), which could be seen as assisting him.

MOO

I have to say a spouse being arrested seems unusual to me. In the Libby Squires case just the suspect was arrested tho his wife was home. No mention made of her until after his conviction when police said she'd been helpful and media reported she'd been shocked.

In that particular case LE also spent considerable time searching the house. So I don't think arrest is necessary.

I don't think you can just arrest without any reason / evidence but I also think the bar is low. She clearly hasn't been charged which requires a much higher level of evidence

Even more intriguing to me is the fact she's been bailed to return in April. Not charged but not released either.

Regarding how she was kidnapped:

MSM reporting of the charge sheet says she was ‘kidnapped by force’. My own reading of the crime of kidnap is that it is ‘kidnap (by force or fraud)’ - it’s not two different crimes. So it’s possible that “kidnap by force’ is just slightly sloppy reporting of the charge sheet, I think.

Even if the charge sheet does read ‘kidnap by force’, it doesn’t mean she was necessarily forcibly abducted from the street. Kidnap by force can occur during what started as a ‘normal’ car journey if the driver prevents the passenger getting out - you don’t have to have been kidnapped *into* a vehicle.

We don’t know from what has been revealed from the buscams whether there is any evidence of force. There has been MSM reporting of police sources speculating that the accused may have used warrant card / covid laws to stop her, but this likely impossible for anyone to know unless the accused has revealed this.

My only other thought about what the evidence may have revealed that we don’t know is whether the evidence we know about would have been sufficient for an arrest on suspicion of kidnap. Would it be enough that SE was seen near a vehicle and then never have arrived at her home to accuse the driver of that vehicle of kidnap?

I'd assumed that when the law said kidnap by force or fraud it only related to actually taking them as opposed to holding them afterwards. In the Libby Squires case where CCTV of how she enters the car is unclear, the prosecution states she was taken by force or fraud. Clearly after the kidnap force was used.

So in this case where it seems to state taken by force it suggested to me that one of the bus cams must show something to that effect because otherwise I would have assumed the wording would be the same.

Or that the reporting is sloppy which is as likely.

That's just my opinion and I'm not a legal expert. But I think for that wording there must have been some evidence of force.

One of the self referrals to the IOPC was for conduct after Sarah had been reported missing. My initial opinion was that this would be that they hadn't taken it seriously and her friends had to nag them. However I now also wonder if a bus driver had called something in earlier that had been ignored.

All just my opinions tho.

 

[Seattle1]

Does anyone have access to Westlaw in order to look for previous cases that WC may have been involved in?

Given his occupation, I wouldn't expect to find any priors in the system. Not saying impossible but each would have been unknown and never charged/prosecuted.

 

[CJS83]

If they thought they could have found her clothes it would be so significant they would not be being handled by a uniformed officer. Forensics would be called immediately and the whole area closed and taped.

Yes, so as the officer didn't hesitate to cast them to one side, we can assume LE already have Sarah's clothing?

 

[sagesun11]

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that after all this time, I have just discovered two things quite interesting about Poynders Court.

1. There is a bus stop directly opposite. I can't believe I hadn't clocked this, I'm sure lots of you had. Buses in London regularly stop at almost all stops (because there's almost always someone either wanting to get on or off). So, if it did stop a) it's far more likely we'd have a witness, and b) the bus camera footage would be 10-15 seconds long (or however long it takes to stop) whereas I had always assumed it was 'passing' (very short) footage. However, seeing as there aren't witnesses (we don't believe), it's just another example of SE's horrendous bad luck!?

2. OK this one I am really mortified I didn't notice before. You can go *all the way* around the back of Poynders Court on Google Street view. I don't yet have any extra theories or knowledge off the back of this, and perhaps you all already knew this (I didn't!!), but it's quite useful for getting a 'feel' for the event that the accused either a) drove the car around there and 'parked' in the turn-in 90 degrees (some people have suggested this), or b) that SE ended up running into there (hence the forensic search). Anyway, can't believe I hadn't noticed you can Street View it, happy sleuthing.

Upon looking at the street view again, I think it makes the alleged abduction site all the more strange. There are SO many windows facing the streets with the flats, meaning so many possibilities for witnesses. IMO

 

[asyousay]

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that after all this time, I have just discovered two things quite interesting about Poynders Court.

1. There is a bus stop directly opposite. I can't believe I hadn't clocked this, I'm sure lots of you had. Buses in London regularly stop at almost all stops (because there's almost always someone either wanting to get on or off). So, if it did stop a) it's far more likely we'd have a witness, and b) the bus camera footage would be 10-15 seconds long (or however long it takes to stop) whereas I had always assumed it was 'passing' (very short) footage. However, seeing as there aren't witnesses (we don't believe), it's just another example of SE's horrendous bad luck!?

2. OK this one I am really mortified I didn't notice before. You can go *all the way* around the back of Poynders Court on Google Street view. I don't yet have any extra theories or knowledge off the back of this, and perhaps you all already knew this (I didn't!!), but it's quite useful for getting a 'feel' for the event that the accused either a) drove the car around there and 'parked' in the turn-in 90 degrees (some people have suggested this), or b) that SE ended up running into there (hence the forensic search). Anyway, can't believe I hadn't noticed you can Street View it, happy sleuthing.

In normal times buses would of been busy on that route but we are in covid times so only Essential travel is allowed and so buses are pretty empty and because of that buses are not needing to stop at every stop at the moment. I think there is only 2 bus routes as well on that stretch of road, a number 50 as I use that regularly but not 100% on the other bus number.

 

[Sandyuk]

I've updated the timeline with loads more detail. I can recommend it ( ) for anyone who is not sure of the facts, or for anyone who wasn't around from the beginning. I must admit I've had to back away from the threads for these past several days to get the timeline done, so if I've missed anything please let me know. I did catch yesterday's developments at Sandwich.

Part 1 (up to 4th March)
Part 2 (5th - 9th March morning)
Part 3 (9th March afternoon - 10th March)
Part 4 (11th March to current)

Thanks Tortoise, it's a great help to have this to refer back to

 

[brewdog]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
I believe we can mention his name but not our opinions about the judgement in his trial until it's over?

 

[jenpil]

Wayne Couzens biography: 13 things about Sarah Everard murder suspect

In 1990 worked at BCB Garage in Western Heights, Dover. Worked at the Dungeness Power Plant in 2011. Became a police officer in Folkstone in 2008.

He was a police officer at Dungeness Power Station with the Civil & Nuclear Constabulary after he was a traffic cop in Folkestone.

 

[Lilbitcurious]

I think he will have been charged with IE, but we possibly haven’t heard about it further because the IE charge relates to a crime against other individuals, not SE, and it is possibly part of the media ban on his character as it isn’t directly related to the charges against SE and occurred before her abduction.

Interesting.... my iPhone automatically uploads photos/videos I take to my iCloud storage. Even if I delete them from my iPhone they remain in my recently deleted folder on iCloud for 30 days! I’m sure it would have been one of the first sources of info checked, considering it was an iPhone Sarah had in her possession as seen in media.IMO

 

[RexLuther]

In normal times buses would of been busy on that route but we are in covid times so only Essential travel is allowed and so buses are pretty empty and because of that buses are not needing to stop at every stop at the moment. I think there is only 2 bus routes as well on that stretch of road, a number 50 as I use that regularly but not 100% on the other bus number.

It's the 355. From the TFL footage they appear rather empty.

 

[Urbanfox1]

If you mean involved in as a Defendant, then I would hazard a guess that the answer would be he has not. Merely because of the role he held.

This. This is the better point

 

[Sandyuk]

@Tortoise thank you for the updated timeline. I note it’s reported the accused ‘ran off’ after the IE incident on the 28th Feb which goes against the theory that it happened while he was in a car in the drive thru.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/6682074/sarah-everard-news-wayne-couzens-mcdonalds-police-latest-live/

I’m guessing there may be good physical evidence via cctv since the accused was on foot for the incident.

I wonder if there are traffic camera's nearby too ?

 

[Seattle1]

That doesn’t look like a necklace to me. It looks like some sort of badge on the chain. Maybe the sort of thing attached to uniform or a handbag. The colour doesn’t look like real gold either.

I believe it's exactly as described: tagged evidence, chain, gold in color.

 

[Audiohoney]

Where in WS TOS does it say we are not allowed to name suspects who have been charged with murder and named in MSM?

See Thread 11 Page 44

 

[mrjitty]

Media Advisory Notice – Disappearance of Sarah Everard

I am sure the mods will clarify, but the accused does not have name suppression, and has already been named in the media.

Indeed he was named by the BBC just two days ago when he appeared in Court

So while this advisory makes it clear not to assume guilt or publish information that might prejudice the trial (e.g. speculation and potential facts) that does not extend to his name?

Potentially the site owners don't want to turn up in SEO results on his name - so I will use the term "accused" and stick to their interpretation