GUILTY UK - Sir Richard Sutton, 83, murdered, Anne Schreiber, 65, wounded, Dorset, 7 Apr 2021

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Today's live tweeting -

10:10am

Good morning, we are back at Winchester Crown Court this morning for day four the Sir Richard Sutton murder trial.

10:12am

The defendant's sister Louisa Schreiber is back in the witness box.
Prosecutor Adam Feest QC will be asking questions of the witness initially.

10:12am

The court is being played an audio call the defendant made to his sister while he was remanded in custody.

10:13am

The defendant can be heard on the call saying "I'm so sorry", "I don't know what happened" and that he "lost control".

10:14am

Discussing the condition of their mother at the time, Louisa Schreiber tells the defendant on the call she doesn't know what the future holds.

10:15am

The defendant asked: "Do you think there will be any chance that she will be able to walk or speak in the next year at least?"
His sister replied by saying that she did not know.


10:16am

Thomas Schreiber said to his sister on the call: "I just wanted to hear your voice, hear someone's voice and find out how mum was doing."
On the call, discussing their mother's condition, Louisa Schreiber said: "She's alive. I don't know how she's managed to be alive but she is."

10:17am

Louisa Schreiber said "there is a possibility she might never be able to breathe without a machine".


10:24am

During the phone call, Thomas Schreiber told his sister "I didn't mean for any of this to happen".
Referencing the day of the incident on April 7, he said it "wasn't me there that day, it wasn't Tom Schreiber, it was somone else".
He made a reference to it being "demons".
"Everything is so regrettable," the defendant told his sister. He also said: "All I want to do is turn back the clock."

10:25am

The phone call has finished playing. Louisa Schreiber took a moment after getting emotional in the witness box.
She is now answering questions from the defendant's barrister, Joe Stone QC.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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10:27am

Mr Stone QC makes reference to the defendant's comments during the call that he "lost control" and "completely snapped", to which Louisa Schreiber says she confirms from the transcript.

10:29am

Asked about the incident in November 2020 and if the defendant's perception was he had been humiliated by Sir Richard, who had hit him with his walking stick.
"We didn't talk about Sir Richard's stick," Louisa Schreiber says. She tells the jury that the defendant and her spoke "more about Tom and me".

10:30am

Louisa Schreiber has concluded giving evidence.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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10:31am

Rose McCarthy, the defendant's other sister, has now been called to give evidence.


10:32am

Questions first from prosecutor Adam Feest QC.


10:35am

Mrs McCarthy is initially asked questions about moving to Moorhill, Sir Richard's home, with her mother and siblings following the seperation of their parents.

10:39am

"Mum very much wanted to protect Tom from any ill feeling towards dad," says Mrs McCarthy.


10:41am

Questions now move on to the period around the death of the defendant and Mrs McCarthy's father in 2013.


10:42am

The defendant took the death of David Schreiber "hardly", Mrs McCarthy says.


10:43am

The defendant went to live in Australia around 2016 and 2017. When he returned he moved into Moorhill, Mrs McCarthy confirms.


10:45am

Following a row when she visited him in Australia, Anne Schreiber did not want the defendant around for Christmas 2018.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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10:45am

Questions now move on to the incident after a family trip to Wincanton races.


10:46am

Mr Feest QC: When you got home as a family there was a heated argument between you and your brother about driving?

Mrs McCarthy: Yes.


10:47am

"The argument was escalating. It was vile - the words that were being said," said Ms McCarthy.

She confirms this was in relation to words said by the defendant.


10:50am

She then explains that she called the defendant an expletive and walked into the pantry.

Mrs McCarthy said the her brother jumped on her.

Her sister pulled him off and they were in an altercation on the floor, she says.

"Everyone went outside and then Richard had been in the pantry and he had seen Thomas attack me and he followed outside," says Mrs McCarthy.

She says Sir Richard was upset by what he had seen and swung for the defendant but missed. Thomas Schreiber knocked Sir Richard to the ground with a single punch, Mrs McCarthy says.

Asked if the language she used was normal or extreme, the witness says it was extreme and she had never called her brother that before.


LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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10:52am

Asked about the interaction between the defendant, Anne Schreiber and Sir Richard Sutton when he moved into Moorhill in early 2019, Mrs McCarthy said it "seemed fairly cordial".

When he moved in in January it was initially expected that he would live there for three months, the jury is told.


10:53am

"It was amicable for quite a while," said Mrs McCarthy. "There was always moments."

She said throughout 2019 "everyone got on with their lives" and "Tom was focused on becoming a painter".


10:55am

As time went on further Mrs McCarthy said "the relationship between Tom and mum seemed more fractious".

She said there were a lot of "snide comments" on both sides.

"Tom was always putting mum down," she tells the court.


10:56am

On the defendant's relationship with Sir Richard Sutton in 2020, Mrs McCarthy said:"It got worse and worse.

"The Tom issue consumed Richard. He found it very difficult to understand Thomas's position in the house in terms of what motivates Tom."


10:57am

Sir Richard gave the defendant a monthly allowance of £1,000, Mrs McCarthy says.

Thomas Schreiber's sister also received the same allowance, the court heard.

Mrs McCarthy said her allowance increased after she had her first child.


10:58am

She says Sir Richard's issues came from a place of concern for the defendant.

10:59am

"It became quite obvious to the family that it was becoming a vicious triangle - the three of them living at Moorhill," says Mrs McCarthy.

11:00am

Mr Feest QC asks if this was "tensions going three ways"?

Mrs McCarthy says yes.

11:01am

Mrs McCarthy, who was pregnant at the time, her partner and their child moved in at Moorhill in March 2020 until July 2020.

11:02am

Asked if she was aware of an incident in November 2020 between her sister Louisa and the defendant?

"Yes, I was. Thomas called me about it," said Mrs McCarthy.

This took place the morning after the incident.

11:03am

"He was very shaken and upset," says Mrs McCarthy.

She says he seemed quite measured and knew he shouldn't have said what he said.

11:03am

"He was very clear he didn't make the first violent blow," she tells the court.

11:06am

"He felt incredibly aggreived and he felt if it had been the other way around, if it had been him, everyone would have been having a go at him," says Ms McCarthy.

He said Sir Richard, his sister and her partner were "getting off scot free".

Mrs McCarthy tells the court her sister was "incensed" by not getting an apology.

"It consumed him," she adds.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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11:08am

Mrs McCarthy is now discussing a row at Moorhill in early 2021 as she was leaving a family gathering.


11:08am

The defendant called his sister a liar and she asked him what had she done to make him angry, says Mrs McCarthy.

11:10am

Discussing the subject of cars, Mrs McCarthy said she and her husband had bought a new car and she was aware Sir Richard had offered a gift of money to the defendant so he could buy a car.

11:12am

Mrs McCarthy said the family took part in an Easter egg hunt at Moorhill this year, including the defendant.

11:13am

As she was leaving Moorhill with her family on Monday, April 5, Mrs McCarthy said the defendant came down from his flat at the property to say goodbye.

11:20am

Mrs McCarthy is being asked about a message exchange on April 6, 2021 with the defendant - the day before the anniversary of their father's death.

The defendant sent a message saying: "Raising a glass to Dad who passed away 8 years ago today. RIP. You remember right? Your real father David, not the one who “bought you” who you call your father #cupboard love”.

She responded to the message from the defendant saying the anniversary was the next day and "that message is completely unacceptable and untrue. Check yourself"

Discussing Sir Richard, Mrs McCarthy tells the court "he was a great father figure", "a second father", "a step father" and "it was not bought".

She says she is "proud" to call him her step father.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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11:20am

Mr Feest QC moving on to a voice message the defendant sent to his sister after the fatal episode at Moorhill on the evening of April 7, 2021.

11:22am

"My immediate thought was he was going to kill himself," Mrs McCarthy tells the court.

11:23am

Mrs McCarthy says: "I basically spent the next hour calling him (the defendant), Moorhill, my mother's mobile, (Sir) Richard's mobile, (her sister) Louisa's phone, their house phone, (her sister's partner) Joe's phone."

11:46am

We are back in court and defending, Mr Stone QC is asking questions of Rose McCarthy, the defendant's sister.

11:46am

Mrs McCarthy says she and Thomas Schreiber would have "suffered greatly" if they had stayed with their father after their parents separated.

11:50am

Mrs McCarthy said their father's death had a "devastating affect on all of us".

11:50am

Mrs McCarthy says the defendant didn't even know the date of their father's death.

11:56am

Asked about the November 2020 incident and if it was a "watershed moment" in the Schreiber household, Mrs McCarthy says she believed it was a watershed moment for the defendant as it was the first time he had been physically assaulted by another man for the first time.

11:57am

She says he was "very consumed by that fight as he kept bringing it up to me".

11:59am

Mrs McCarthy says Sir Richard's offer to live at Moorhill was to all of the Schreiber family.

12:00pm

Mrs McCarthy says her mother told her father, David Schreiber, he could only come to Moorhill if he stopped drinking but he refused. She tells the court: "She (Anne Schreiber) knew Richard very well and she didn't want Richard's generousity to be abused."

12:01pm

She tells the court "the situation of dad living by himself was of his own making and his own disease".

12:03pm

Mrs McCarthy has been released from the witness box having finished giving evidence.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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12:09pm

Caroline Sutton, Sir Richard and Lady Fiamma Sutton's daughter, is now giving evidence.
She will first be responding to questions from prosecutor Adam Feest QC.


12:10pm

She says her parents "drifted" by around 2002 and 2003.

12:13pm

Caroline Sutton said she felt "uncomfortable" going to Moorhill after the Schreibers had taken up Sir Richard's offer of moving in.

12:14pm

She said she had "hardly anything at all", when asked about any contact she had with Thomas Schreiber.

12:15pm

Caroline Sutton said each of the Schreiber children were given £100,000 a couple of years ago by Sir Richard and then £1,000 a month as ongoing payments.

12:15pm

She says her father wanted Thomas Schreiber out of the house but he wouldn't go.

12:17pm

Caroline Sutton says she was told about money for a car at the end of last year or start of this year.

She tells the court Sir Richard said he was going to give the defendant some money for a car because Thomas Schreiber insisted he wanted a car.

12:18pm

She says Thomas Schreiber drove Sir Richard's Range Rover "much to his annoyance".

12:19pm

Around February this year, Caroline Sutton learned about an incident when Sir Richard had hit the defendant with a walking stick and the walking stick had snapped.

12:20pm

In January 2021, Caroline Sutton said she was out riding a horse, saw the defendant but he "barely recognised who I was".

12:20pm

She says the defendant said: "Are you Caroline? You live around here somewhere."

12:20pm

Questions now move to April 7, the day of Sir Richard Sutton's death.

12:23pm

Caroline Sutton is asked questions about her recollections of a call from Anne Schreiber's daughter Rose McCarthy on the evening of April 7.

12:25pm

No questions on cross examination from Mr Stone QC.

Caroline Sutton has concluded her evidence.

Her partner Steven Woodward is now called to the witness box.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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12:26pm

There is a slight pause as we wait for Mr Woodward to walk into court.

12:30pm

He tells the court he got to know the defendant a "little bit".

He said any relationship he had broke down in recent years because of the way Thomas Schreiber was behaving at Moorhill.

12:32pm

The witness tells the court Anne Schreiber gave therapy threatment for a hip problem he was suffering. He said this took place at her practice as Moorhill "wasn't a comfortable place at that time".

12:33pm

Mr Woodward said Sir Richard would have conversations with him about the defendant's behaviour.

12:34pm

Mr Woodward said it became an obsessive problem for Sir Richard.

"He was a prisoner in his own home," Mr Woodward says.

He tells the court the defendant had a "total lack of respect" for Sir Richard and his possessions.

12:36pm

Mr Woodward says "Tom thought the world owed him living" and "he thought he was better than everybody else".

12:36pm

Mr Woodward is describing his journey to check on Moorhill on the evening of April 7 following Rose McCarthy's call to Caroline Sutton.

12:37pm

He got to the edge of Moorhill but couldn't go near the house, the court is told.

12:37pm

"I don't even think I went 10 metres up the drive before police stopped me," said Mr Woodward.

He stayed at the scene until he could tell Caroline Sutton what had happened.

12:38pm

He contacted one of his partner's friends asking if she could visit Caroline Sutton as he was expecting bad news, Mr Woodward says.

12:39pm

Mr Woodward returned home in his own car with police.

He told Caroline Sutton over a phone call while making that journey.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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12:41pm

Mr Woodward went to Moorhill when police finished examining the scene.

He checked the garage and noticed some blood at the doorway of the garage, the court hears.


12:41pm

He noticed blood on the door of an Aston Martin.

12:43pm

Around April 17, Mr Woodward emptied the fridges at Moorhill. As well as food, he found half a bottle of white wine in one of the fridges, the court is told.

There was no Champagne in all three fridges," Mr Woodward tells the court.

12:45pm

No questions on cross examination or from the judge. Mr Woodward has finished his evidence.

The court will now break for lunch.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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1:57pm

The next witness is Sathia Pagliuca. She is joined by an interpreter, should she require them. Her native language is Italian.


1:58pm

Ms Pagliuca was in a relationship with the defendant from October last year.

She worked at the Clockspire restuarant in Milborne Port.

2:00pm

She confirms the defendant spoke to her about his feelings for his family.

"He felt hated by them and he hated them as well," Ms Pagliuca says.

2:01pm

On his relationship with Sir Richard Sutton, she says: "He always hated Richard from when he start to know each other."

2:01pm

The defendant felt treated unfairly compared to his siblings, Ms Pagliuca says.

2:06pm

Prosecutor Mr Feest QC reads out an expletive message the defendant sent to Ms Pagliuca which expresses his thoughts about his mother.

2:07pm

Ms Pagliuca says this was a typical conversation she would have with Thomas Schreiber, with him giving views on his family and her trying to reassure him.

2:09pm

On November 18, 2020, the defendant messaged Ms Pagliuca saying "I'm packing up all my things". This was days after the physical argument at Moorhill.

2:12pm

Asked how he was after the November 2020 incident, Ms Pagliuca said: "He was very sad about it because he felt left alone again."

She says he felt "abandoned by his family".

2:12pm

Ms Pagliuca said she never challenged the defendant about speaking badly about his family.

2:13pm

Asked about his manner when speaking badly about his family, Ms Pagliuca said Thomas Schreiber was "very angry".

2:14pm

"I try to help him speaking out what his feelings were," she tells the court.

2:14pm

The defendant "just stayed silent" at these times, Ms Pagliuca says.

2:15pm

Ms Pagliuca says: "I always ask him if I can come and meet his family. He always want to delay that part."

2:17pm

Mr Feest QC, reading from message exchanges, says in response to Ms Pagliuca asking the defendant if his mother wanted to meet him, he said: "She does but she's so toxic. I don't really want to expose you to her toxicity."

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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2:20pm

The prosecutor is now referencing messages from February of this year between Ms Pagliuca and the defendant.

2:22pm

Ms Pagliuca said that she could feel the defendant's rage for his family and she wanted to help him.

She tells the court the defendant would say "there was no hope for reconciliation".

2:25pm

Ms Pagliuca said the defendant spoke about doing something bad to Sir Richard Sutton and his mother on more than one occasion.

2:25pm

"He wanted to take a gun and shoot a bullet in his mother's forehead," she tells the court.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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2:26pm

Mr Feest QC now moves on to April 7, 2021.

2:27pm

Ms Pagliuca said the defendant had said he wanted to limit his drinking for health reasons.

2:28pm

This was asked about by Mr Feest QC following a text sent by Ms Pagliuca to the defendant on the morning of April 7 saying "I'm happy if you want to quit drinking".

2:30pm

At 3.54pm on April 7, the defendant sent a message asking Ms Pagliuca if she knew what Queen song was in his head.

2:30pm

An exchange follows before the defendant says it is the song I Want to Break Free.

2:35pm

The messages between the two stop at 4.10pm.

Ms Pagliuca received a message from her bank at 7.13pm from her bank that £30,000 had been deposited into her account with a note saying "love from Thomas".

2:35pm

Ms Pagliuca then messaged the defendant asking "what have you done" and "I cannot have all of this money Thomas".

2:37pm

Ms Pagliuca and the defendant spoke on the phone.

She tells the court: "He was crying and said he ****** up and he had killed Richard and his mum.

"He continued saying he wanted to take his life. He was covered in blood."

She asked him if he was joking, the jury is told, and the defendant said it was true.

2:40pm

Ms Pagliuca said he should go to police. The defendant responded by saying "should I live the rest of my life in prison", Ms Pagliuca said.

She tells the court, through the translator, she responded by saying: "It is better to live in prison and give yourself up than to be a coward and take your own life."

2:45pm

The defendant made six calls in a fairly short time frame to Ms Pagliuca but she did not answer, the court is told.

2:47pm

Asked why she did not answer, Ms Pagliuca tells the court: "The last call Thomas had said that he was coming to my house, to my flat, and I carried on telling him not to come to me but to go to police.

"And because I was frightened I wanted him to understand that I wasn't at home. I moved my car and closed everything - my windows and my door."

A colleague came to Ms Pagliuca's house and picked her up, she says.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

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2:47pm

Mr Joe Stone QC, representing the defendant, is on his feet and asking questions under cross examination of Ms Pagliuca.


2:48pm

Ms Pagliuca confirms she met the defendant while she was working in a restaurant in Millborne Port. He had been a customer.

2:49pm

Ms Pagliuca says she went to Moorhill on a few occasions.

2:50pm

Thomas Schreiber would visit Ms Pagliuca at her rented property most weekends, the court is told.

2:50pm

Mr Stone QC puts it to Ms Pagliuca that the defendant was "candid" and "open" about what was troubling him.

Ms Pagliuca says he was.

2:51pm

Mr Stone QC: "It was clear to you that Tom very much felt it was him against other members of his family?"

Ms Pagliuca: "Yes."

2:52pm

Mr Stone QC: "He felt his sisters got preferential treatment from Sir Richard, do you agree?"

Ms Pagliuca: "Yes."

2:53pm

Asked if she was shocked the defendant had been struck by a member of his household, Ms Pagliuca said she was not as she came from a similar family.

2:55pm

Mr Stone QC said: "It was clear to you he was screaming out for help at that time?"

Ms Pagliuca: "Yes."

2:56pm

Mr Feest QC is back on his feet asking further questions.

Ms Pagliuca confirms she told the defendant to get help on more than one occasion.

2:57pm

Ms Pagliuca's evidence is concluded and she has been released.

2:57pm

That concludes today's proceedings.

The trial will resume at 10am tomorrow.

LIVE: Murder accused 'thought world owed him a living', court told

 

[Tortoise]

I don't know how the Echo does it, I've noticed they seem to leave out an awful lot of relevant detail from their live updates.

A jobless painter accused of murdering hotelier Sir Richard Sutton and paralysing his own mother in a frenzied knife attack became incensed and fixated after the multimillionaire failed to apologise for caning him with a walking stick, a trial today heard. [...]

Caroline Sutton, Sir Richard's daughter who lived just a mile from Moorhill, told the court that tensions were high between her father and Schreiber.

The court previously heard Schreiber held resentment at how his mother Anne and Sir Richard had treated his late father David following their divorce.

Ms Sutton broke down in tears in court as she revealed her father wanted Schreiber to leave his house so badly he offered to give him £100,000 for a house deposit.

'My father was constantly thinking about Tom and how he wanted him out of the house and he wouldn't go,' she told the court.

'Tom was rude and disrespectful and would never help him and I suggested he got him somewhere to live and he just said 'Tom wouldn't go'.'


[...]

Schreiber wept in the dock as an emotional phone call between him and his sister after the killing was played in court.

[...]

The 35 year old called his older sister Louisa Schreiber, 40, from prison on April 27, almost three weeks after he attacked his mother and her partner. [...]

He said: 'I'm so sorry, it's completely f***ing madness, it's a complete nightmare I have.

'I'm waking up every day hoping to wake up from this nightmare... I don't know what happened I completely lost control it's just complete madness and doesn't make any sense and I'm so sorry.

'I didn't didn't mean for any of this this to happen you have to believe me on that I didn't want to hurt anyone...'

Louisa replied: 'She's paralysed Tom... from the neck down... she's on a ventilator... she can open her eyes though and she can smile... she seems to have her brain functioning but I don't know what the future holds for her.

'She's got a spinal cord injury in her neck... She's survived, against all the odds, but it's [now] whether she will ever move.'

In the call from Winchester prison, Hants, Schreiber repeatedly shouted 'No' as his sister described their mother's injuries and asked 'can she move?' and 'will she improve?'.

When he said he didn't understand why his mother couldn't move her legs, Louisa replied: 'Because she's had a knife go into her neck.'

She added there was a 'possibility' that Mrs Schreiber will not be able to breathe without a ventilator for the rest of her life and added: 'I don't even think she will make it.'

[...]

In a chilling text about a month before the killings, the 35 year old told a friend 'I contemplate murdering them all morning day and night'.

Sir Richard Sutton murder trial: Partner Anne Schreiber 'left paralysed after son's knife attack' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Satchie]

Ms Pagliuca said that she could feel the defendant's rage for his family and she wanted to help him...

"He wanted to take a gun and shoot a bullet in his mother's forehead," she tells the court.

Ms Pagliuca says this was a typical conversation she would have with Thomas Schreiber, with him giving views on his family and her trying to reassure him...

"I always ask him if I can come and meet his family. He always want to delay that part."

Thomas Schreiber would visit Ms Pagliuca at her rented property most weekends, the court is told.

Sigh.

What a wonderful boyfriend you found there, Sathia. A real keeper, someone who really deserved you.

 

[Tortoise]

What I'm getting is that this all seems to have been very calculated. No one reported any trouble happening that day. His texts to his girlfriend before the stabbings don't mention any fighting. He's got two parents in different rooms of the house. If there was an argument and explosion of temper between him and Sir Richard his mum would have likely gone to investigate and phoned out for help, seeing the stabbing. But his mum seemed surprised to hear a commotion in the study, so it probably wasn't an argument that she knew anything about spilling over into a physical fight, he's already armed with at least one knife in the study, then she remembers seeing him coming towards her and unexpectedly stabbing her with what turns out to be a different knife. Then she remembers Sir Richard coming in and leaving again, which must have been after he'd been attacked and when he tried to get away upstairs but was attacked a second time. The disconnected landline also makes me think this was coolly planned, to prevent one parent calling out for help while he was busy dealing with the other.

Then he goes and changes his clothes, probably thinks his DNA on the knives won't matter because he lives in the house, so he leaves them in the house, and makes off for London with his passport.

Nothing about it makes me think loss of control or 'red mist'. Jeremy Bamber comes to mind. Schreiber also fantasised about murdering one of his sisters.

But then he called people to tell them what he'd done. I wonder why the high speed chase. He could have just shot himself in the house, but he only stabbed himself hundreds of miles away after the police stopped him. Those are the mysteries for me.

This seems much more like a festering resentment of epic proportions and something he had played out in his head over and over again, and in his imagination he would feel relieved and like he had served justice on them for his suffering. Only afterwards he didn't feel that, he felt a crushing panic that his plan for getting away with it wouldn't work, so he went through the motions of carrying out his escape plan while also collapsing in a new turmoil he'd never contemplated - would killing himself be better than going to prison?

 

[Tortoise]

Perhaps the money transfer to his girlfriend was in his plan, thinking he could pick her up and take her with him, all the while living off the funds in her bank account so he couldn't be traced by his own banking transactions. An Italian girl who perhaps wouldn't be reported missing for a while.

 

[Luwin]

I am not sure how the text exchanges between him and his girlfriend did not raise alarm bells to her. Sounds like it was a fairly new relationship. Although I'm not sure what action she could have taken other than ending the relationship.

I think the 'escape' was attention seeking - he knew the attack would be linked to him

 

[Luwin]

I think he realised after the attack that he'd severed the hand that was feeding him. He complained about the value of the monthly allowance he was receiving (£1000 from memory) and it suddenly dawned on him that in prison he'd be receiving no handouts and had alienated himself from his family. I don't doubt that he has psychological issues of some sort to harbour that much resentment