UK UK - Sudbury, Suffolk, River Stour, Male, athletic or muscular build, in bin bags, Aug'20

[Bethan]

Early reports when the bones were discovered in plastic bags mentioned they were found near a shopping trolley ( post #4) Later reports said the bags were inside a shopping trolley ( Daily Mail)

I automatically pictured a supermarket shopping trolley ( having occasionally seen these dumped in rivers) however I’m now realising that it may have been a shopping bag on wheels, just like the one being pulled along by the couple in the photo.

Sometimes when the police make an announcement calling for ‘potential witnesses’ to come forward, those witnesses are actually suspects. I think this may well be the case here.

Sorry if this has already dawned on everyone else!!

I’ve had an image of a supermarket trolley stuck in my head since the start, so only just realised!

 

[JuicyLucy]

Early reports when the bones were discovered in plastic bags mentioned they were found near a shopping trolley ( post #4) Later reports said the bags were inside a shopping trolley ( Daily Mail)

I automatically pictured a supermarket shopping trolley ( having occasionally seen these dumped in rivers) however I’m now realising that it may have been a shopping bag on wheels, just like the one being pulled along by the couple in the photo.

Sometimes when the police make an announcement calling for ‘potential witnesses’ to come forward, those witnesses are actually suspects. I think this may well be the case here.

Sorry if this has already dawned on everyone else!!

I’ve had an image of a supermarket trolley stuck in my head since the start, so only just realised!

Interesting! I'd forgotten that part of the original story but actually I'd visualised a supermarket trolley too.

But could the police explicitly state that someone was sought as a witness and not as a suspect if actually they were a suspect? Or could they justify it if the couple were considered suspects in the disposal of the remains but not, hypothetically, murder suspects?

I must admit my first thought when I saw the photo was: what's in the trolley then? Though the dogs probably wouldn't be that uninterested if it contained human remains tbh.

Just speculating.

 

[pokerowan]

Early reports when the bones were discovered in plastic bags mentioned they were found near a shopping trolley ( post #4) Later reports said the bags were inside a shopping trolley ( Daily Mail)

I automatically pictured a supermarket shopping trolley ( having occasionally seen these dumped in rivers) however I’m now realising that it may have been a shopping bag on wheels, just like the one being pulled along by the couple in the photo.

Didn't dawn on me in the slightest. What an excellent catch this is - and horrifying, if that is the case with this photo! I sincerely hope not as that's absolutely haunting to consider.

 

[RobinCAL]

Thank you for the update. Time really has flown by with this one. I also didn't remember that somebody was arrested last year but nothing will be brought against them at this time.

Hopefully there is some more news soon.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Fresh lead in Sudbury bones case as potential witnesses come forward

Two potential witnesses have come forward after human remains were found in a Sudbury river more than two years ago.

www.eadt.co.uk

These two people – who are being treated as potential witnesses and are not suspects – have since come forward and been spoken to by officers, assisting them with their enquiries.

A spokesman for Suffolk police said: "The investigation team would like to thank members of the public and media for their assistance with this appeal, but still ask anyone with information about the discovery of human remains in the River Stour to come forward.

 

[JuicyLucy]

This case would be an excellent use of familial DNA to try and identify the victim, partly for whatever closure that might offer any family members but also because it might provide a steer on how and when he died and who else might have been involved.

Using familial DNA forensically is fraught with ethical issues, but less so when it's used to identify a victim rather than as a fishing trip when unidentified DNA is at a crime scene imo.

Familial DNA Searches - FindLaw
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073820304382

I heard someone talk about Interpol's I-Familia database last year and I'm wondering if Suffolk Police have considered adding this victim to it.

I-Familia

 

[RobinCAL]

Coroner suspends inquest into remains found by Suffolk river

The inquest into the death of an unidentified man, known as Body C, found by the River Stour has been formally suspended until the middle of next…

www.sudburymercury.co.uk

 

[AcbMurders]

There was a police appeal on Crime Watch this morning

Body found in Suffolk river had almost 30 lacerations to skull, police reveal

Police investigating the human remains in the River Stour, in Sudbury in Suffolk, have revealed the victim was found with 27 skull lacerations.

www.eadt.co.uk

… it is believed that the man died between 2008 and 2012, but that the bags had been in the river for about seven to 10 days before they were spotted. (…) the man's arms were found in one black bin bag, with a boots carrier bag full of stones also inside the bin bag, and his legs were found in a second bag along with several yellow air fresheners.

Police release pictures of bags used to hide human remains in Suffolk river

Pictures of bags that were used to hide human remains in the River Stour in Sudbury have been released by Suffolk police.

www.eadt.co.uk

Detective Superintendent Mike Brown, the Senior Investigating Officer, said: "The placement of the air freshener blocks was clearly designed to mask any bad aromas.
(…) During the show it was revealed that the victim, who was believed to be between 5ft 6ins and 5ft 9ins, white, in their late 50s to early 60s, of athletic build, and with blonde hair at birth, had 27 lacerations to his skull, believed to have been caused by a bladed weapon.

 

[Vls]

Cops reveal fresh details over human bones found in bags in river 3 years ago

HUMAN bones found in bin bags in a river three years ago were surrounded by air fresheners and the body had been dismembered, police say. The grisly find was made in the River Stour in Sudbury, Suf…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[HollyHunter9]

There was a police appeal on Crime Watch this morning

Body found in Suffolk river had almost 30 lacerations to skull, police reveal

Police investigating the human remains in the River Stour, in Sudbury in Suffolk, have revealed the victim was found with 27 skull lacerations.

www.eadt.co.uk

… it is believed that the man died between 2008 and 2012, but that the bags had been in the river for about seven to 10 days before they were spotted. (…) the man's arms were found in one black bin bag, with a boots carrier bag full of stones also inside the bin bag, and his legs were found in a second bag along with several yellow air fresheners.

Police release pictures of bags used to hide human remains in Suffolk river

Pictures of bags that were used to hide human remains in the River Stour in Sudbury have been released by Suffolk police.

www.eadt.co.uk

Detective Superintendent Mike Brown, the Senior Investigating Officer, said: "The placement of the air freshener blocks was clearly designed to mask any bad aromas.
(…) During the show it was revealed that the victim, who was believed to be between 5ft 6ins and 5ft 9ins, white, in their late 50s to early 60s, of athletic build, and with blonde hair at birth, had 27 lacerations to his skull, believed to have been caused by a bladed weapon.

Very strange that they think the 27 lacerations to his skull is not actually what killed him. Might seem a long shot but I notice one of the bags being a boots the chemist carrier bag. Most boots customers will have something that they call an advantage card its a card to collect points every time you shop but will be registered to an address. Might be worth looking into people nearby who are registered with a boots card within the local area and were living in the area around the estimated years of death?

This is entirely my own thoughts but I have a gut feeling that this crime has been committed by a woman. The collection of small stones to try obviously weigh down the bags to me suggests someone who could perhaps not lift one big heavy stone or if the bag were weighed down too much they would not be able to carry it very far without getting tired.

 

[dotr]

Very strange that they think the 27 lacerations to his skull is not actually what killed him. Might seem a long shot but I notice one of the bags being a boots the chemist carrier bag. Most boots customers will have something that they call an advantage card its a card to collect points every time you shop but will be registered to an address. Might be worth looking into people nearby who are registered with a boots card within the local area and were living in the area around the estimated years of death?

This is entirely my own thoughts but I have a gut feeling that this crime has been committed by a woman. The collection of small stones to try obviously weigh down the bags to me suggests someone who could perhaps not lift one big heavy stone or if the bag were weighed down too much they would not be able to carry it very far without getting tired.

rbbm
Funny, was just about to post the same thing about a woman possibly committing the crime because of the air fresheners! imo, speculation,
Also possible that a wife or mother was helping the perp.

 

[HollyHunter9]

rbbm
Funny, was just about to post the same thing about a woman possibly committing the crime because of the air fresheners! imo, speculation,
Also possible that a wife or mother was helping the perp.

Yes, i thought that too about the air fresheners. Yes thats a good point too about a mother or wife helping cover up. Maybe they found the bags of bones hidden in their house somewhere and thought they would get rid of them for good but in actual fact ended up with them being found!

 

[Nell91]

I'm shocked that this poor guy is still nameless! I can't find any MP reports that jump out at me :/

 

[pokerowan]

rbbm
Funny, was just about to post the same thing about a woman possibly committing the crime because of the air fresheners! imo, speculation,
Also possible that a wife or mother was helping the perp.

That's funny, I thought it might be a man who was linked because none of the air fresheners were unwrapped! JMO but I think a man would be less likely to open the wrappers and simply sling them into the bags.

 

[dotr]

Lengthy more detail at link..
1 day ago By Laura Devlin rbbm

Sudbury body remains in river likely a victim of organised crime

Further details emerge in the case of the unknown murder victim found in the River Stour in August 2020.

www.bbc.com

''An unknown man whose remains were found in bags in a river three years ago was "very likely" the victim of organised crime, police have said.
Remains were found in the River Stour in Sudbury, Suffolk, on 27 August 2020, sparking a murder inquiry.
Police established the victim was a man aged in his late 50s to early 60s but are yet to identify him.
Releasing new information, Det Supt Mike Brown said part of the skull was found and had 27 deep lacerations''


"Our leading hypothesis is that this individual is very likely to have been the victim of organised crime.
"The way the body was dismembered - and the fact that the hands are missing - bear the hallmarks of being done very deliberately and by people who knew what they were doing."

''Officers uncovered part of the skull and jaw; the right and left arm bones and partial wrist bones and the complete lower right and left legs, including the feet.
The arms, legs and feet were partially mummified and there was a healed fracture to one of the wrist bones.
The bones had been cleanly dismembered at the joints, with the lacerations on the skull, not believed to be the cause of death, police said.

Both arms and the feet were bent inwards and upwards, which was possibly as a result of how they were stored.''

"It would appear the remains had been stored in dry, airless, conditions for a number of years before someone decided they needed to be disposed of," added Det Supt Brown.''

''A number of air fresheners, for use in commercial toilets, were also found in the bags and gave off a "strong, chemical smell".
These were found to have been a business-to-business janitorial product made by Jeyes, at a factory in Mold, North Wales, and became obsolete around 2011''

 

[dotr]

Sorry, 2 in a row more info. popping up..

https://www.suffolk.police.uk/news/latest-news/sudbury-update-case-human-remains-found-river'Sudbury – 'Update on case of human remains found in river'
Published:13 Oct 2023'

Grisly new details about mysterious human remains found in UK river

Chilling new details have emerged about the two bin bags of dismembered human remains found in the River Stour three years ago.

www.express.co.uk

By OLI SMITH Oct 14, 2023 rbbm.

''It is thought that the victim died between 2008 and 2012, with police treating the case as a murder. The cause of death remains unknown.

New forensic tests indicate that the victim was a white man likely of northern European origin in his 50s or 60s and of athletic build.''

''The victim's DNA suggests he was "probably born with blond hair, had blue-green eyes, and was between 5ft 6ins to 5ft 9ins in height".

''They are also looking into whether a family "who may have been claiming benefit fraud for a deceased relative and again something happened that meant they had to dispose of the remains".

 

[TootsieFootsie]

That's funny, I thought it might be a man who was linked because none of the air fresheners were unwrapped! JMO but I think a man would be less likely to open the wrappers and simply sling them into the bags.

Yes what is the point of using air fresheners if you don't unwrap them.

Maybe it was someone who wasn't sure how to use them ?

Some of those stones look like they could be from someone's gemstone collection, or a collection of polished pretty stones.

 

[dotr]

Yes what is the point of using air fresheners if you don't unwrap them.

Maybe it was someone who wasn't sure how to use them ?

Some of those stones look like they could be from someone's gemstone collection, or a collection of polished pretty stones.

Yes, the stones are pretty and do look like they came from somebody's collection, also they are small and hard to imagine any would think they helped to hold the bag down.
Wondering if those stones had once been used by a Jewish person as a visitation stone at a grave? speculation, imo.fwiw

Visitation stones - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Alecia Milano on June 21, 2022

Why Do People Put Stones On Graves? Here Are 5 Reasons

People have been placing stones on graves and memorials for thousands of years. Take a look at five reasons behind this cemetery tradition.

www.milanomonuments.com

''A Jewish tradition that’s stood the test of time, placing stones on a loved one’s grave dates as far back as biblical times.
In fact, for thousands of years, people memorialized their loved ones by stacking stones—known as cairns—on top of their graves to mark the burial site and protect them from animals. Historically, Jewish families would also leave piles of rocks on graves to warn priests away, a tradition that stemmed from the idea that if a priest came within four feet of a lost loved one, he would make them impure.
While the exact origins of this custom are unclear, it’s still regularly practiced today—albeit, with several different meanings. Below, we explore five reasons families and friends place stones on their loved ones’ graves.''

 

[pokerowan]

Wondering if those stones had once been used by a Jewish person as a visitation stone at a grave? speculation, imo.fwiw

Visitation stones - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 453531

JMO but I don't think a religious gesture like this would be likely in this case. Maybe in a mummification/concealed death, but it seems too odd to me that a spiritual grounding would coincide with dismemberment, binbags, and no burial place.

They look more to me like river rocks/stones, which might be a common kind of gravel (used in driveways etc.) for a town near a river.

 

[dotr]

JMO but I don't think a religious gesture like this would be likely in this case. Maybe in a mummification/concealed death, but it seems too odd to me that a spiritual grounding would coincide with dismemberment, binbags, and no burial place.

They look more to me like river rocks/stones, which might be a common kind of gravel (used in driveways etc.) for a town near a river.

Maybe associated with some kind of construction, (port o potties, trailers?) landscaping, or office cleaning company, hence the 'janitorial ' air fresheners ?
Still thinking the small stones are indicative of something... if they do not forensically match nearby river stones, they might narrow down where they did come from, imo, speculation. fwiw

https://faculty.uml.edu/Nelson_Eby/Forensic%20Geology/Exercises/Introduction%20to%20Forensic%20Geology.pdf

''3. Rocks are not randomly distributed across the earth’s surface. Their occurrence is determined by the geologic processes that have occurred in a particular area. The distribution of rock types (lithologies) is shown by a geologic map. It is often possible to link a rock specimen to a specific area using a geologic map. Example: A Lowell resident orders a carton of very expensive wine from a vintner in Argentina. When the wine arrives in Lowell the box contains scoria (a volcanic rock) - somewhere between the winery and Lowell the wine has been removed by a third party. The Lowell resident immediately suspects the driver of the delivery van (who appears slightly inebriated) and verbally attacks the man (he is restrained from a physical attack by his significant other. One should never mess with a man’s wine.). The delivery man proclaims his innocence, and since he is a geology student who is working his way through college driving the delivery van, he points out that the rock in the box cannot be found anywhere in the Lowell area. Further investigation reveals that the box of wine was transferred from one mode of transport to another in two locations - one in Argentina and the other northern Mexico. A perusal of geologic maps of the two areas reveals that volcanic rocks occur in northern Mexico, thus suggesting that was where the transfer took place''