UK - Three abandoned babies (2017, 2019, 2024) full siblings found in London

[shinimeggie]

I don't think the UK (or at least England) has anywhere you can safely leave an infant without you being sought out and it potentially being a crime. Perhaps a hospital birth where you decided afterwards, at the literal last minute, that you couldn't cope and the baby gets taken into the system, but not if you give birth outside of a hospital and then don't want, or can't have, the baby.

It's good to know that we've had many years with zero baby abandonments, but we've had plenty of crimes that include abuse or death of babies and toddlers that have seemed unwanted, and maybe these crimes would happen less if we did have a Safe Haven law that allowed a baby up to a certain number of months to be given to a hospital, fire station, police station, or even a baby hatch.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong and that you can hand in a baby (not a newborn at a hospital for adoption) somewhere without the police getting involved and trying to track you down, but it's not something I've ever heard of.

ETA: I have seen news reports of mothers being found after their living babies were discovered abandoned and the police have decided to take no further action, but that's at police discretion and only happens if the baby lives, which can just be luck depending on how/when the baby was abandoned.

 

[Bagpus]

This is really disturbing and unfortunately probably paints a pretty dark picture of Mum’s home life. IMOO.

Yes. I'm wondering if it's a case of an "employer", or pimp raping the same woman multiple times as opposed to a set of parents as we might imagine that to be.

 

[LadyL]

I guess since they have DNA, they have run it through any criminal databases?

 

[Pseudonymph]

It surprises me there aren't any safe haven dropoffs in the UK. The NHS is usually pretty progressive about these things..And especially after the terrible legacy of orphanages in Ireland.

 

[BreadnLumpit]

It surprises me there aren't any safe haven dropoffs in the UK. The NHS is usually pretty progressive about these things..And especially after the terrible legacy of orphanages in Ireland.

I think it might be because abandonment of newborns is so rare here. We have easy and free access to contraception and abortion and anyone wanting to give a baby up for adoption immediately after their (free) hospital birth, can do so without judgement.

Firefighters here are not paramedics, as I believe they are in the US? So any drop off hatches would need to be at hospitals, which are by nature bustling with people and bristling with CCTV.

Abandonment does still happen of course, but in those rare instances it's usually very young girls, who have been too scared to tell their parents. This case feels different because of the repeat nature of it - I suspect an abusive/ illicit relationship along the lines of incest/small religious cult/ missing woman held prisoner scenarios. JMO.

I can't help but wonder about the 5 year gap between the two sisters - it seems a stretch to think that there were no pregnancies in that time

 

[pol100gk]

There's been a near identical case in Berlin/Germany. Three babies left to be found and by the same parents. One a year for three years.
Apologies but only reported on in German: Jedes Jahr einen Säugling ausgesetzt: Das Rätsel der drei Geschwisterkinder
I couldn't find any update on this so they have not found the parents. But basically same story. And they do have baby hatches in Berlin but they were not used. Police called the case 'unprecedented'.

 

[Shamrock1]

I wouldn’t necessarily assume the mother is mentally ill, though it’s highly likely she needs major assistance. Elisabeth Fritzl had three of her newborns taken and “abandoned” at her parents’ home.

Fritzl case - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[seasideForest]

It surprises me there aren't any safe haven dropoffs in the UK. The NHS is usually pretty progressive about these things..

It's a crime to abandon a baby in the UK. It's a crime in the rest of Europe according to this BBC article from 2013 www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-22123366
but certainly in some countries where baby hatches have been installed, like in Germany, the law has been amended to make it legal to leave a baby in one of these hatches.

And especially after the terrible legacy of orphanages in Ireland.

I don't think that would affect the law in the UK though.
MOO

 

[Dotta]

We have "Windows of life" in Poland.

They are in hospitals, Church buildings, doctors' practices in every town/city.

Window of Life -
(Okno Życia in Polish)

a specially prepared place that allows mothers who cannot or do not want to take care of their newborn to leave the baby/babies there anonymously and safely.

"What is a 'window of life'?​

'A Window of Life'
is a place where a woman can anonymously leave her child after giving birth.

The main goal of creating such places
is to provide a safe space,
thanks to which the child has a chance for a loving home,
which for various reasons cannot be provided by child's biological mother.

It is also a safe space for the mother:
the woman leaves the baby anonymously,
which is not allowed by the procedure for leaving the baby in the hospital after birth."

Okno życia – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

pl.m.wikipedia.org

Okna życia od lat budzą kontrowersje. Mało kto wie, co dokładnie dzieje się z dziećmi

Od kilku lat coraz częściej w oknach życia rozlega się alarm. Powstają też kolejne punkty, w których rodzice mogą anonimowo oddać dzieci. Pierwsze okna życia powstały już kilkaset lat temu. O ile w średniowieczu ich funkcjonowanie było w pełni uzasadnione, o tyle dziś okna życia często wzbudzają...

mamadu.pl

 

[Macha]

There was a case in Ireland where three babies were abandoned. Only in the recent past it was discovered they were full siblings. It went back as far as the 1960's. Turns out the father was a married man and the mother couldn't live with the guilt and shame.

 

[OddOneOut]

Firefighters here are not paramedics, as I believe they are in the US? So any drop off hatches would need to be at hospitals, which are by nature bustling with people and bristling with CCTV.

Firefighters are not paramedics in the US. However, they are usually members of the fire department itself and based out of our fire stations. When they go out, they are usually accompanied by a fire truck; although, the reason for that escapes me at the moment.

 

[seasideForest]

I think it might be because abandonment of newborns is so rare here.

RSBM for focus.
How rare though? I saw 16 per year for England and Wales in some publication and 60 in another one. Both are I suppose 'relatively' rare. otoh even 16 abandoned babies are too many individually.
The Office of National Statistics gives you an email to try some other gov't dept www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/abandonedinfantsintheuk2022 and I'm not interested enough to chase it up and/or expect they might not respond since I don't live in England & Wales or any other part of the UK.

I imagine it has more to do the kind of arguments brought forth by the UN and other experts in this article www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/10/unitednations-europe-news
MOO

 

[shinimeggie]

The BBC reports --

'Very few babies are recorded as abandoned at birth in England and Wales. The ONS only published data until 2015, and that showed no babies were registered as abandoned for the previous three years, with just one logged as abandoned in 2011.

However academic researchers estimate the number higher, external, at about 16 per year - in analysis covering the period 1998-2005.'

So it sounds like they're measuring what 'abandonment of a baby' means differently to reach two separate conclusions -- if I'm reading this correctly they're also measuring different years. It's still rare, however, even if we take the 16 number.

Source: Abandoned baby Elsa is third newborn deserted by same parents.

 

[momsof3]

We have "Windows of life" in Poland.

View attachment 508122

They are in hospitals, Church buildings, doctors' practices in every town/city.

View attachment 508124

Window of Life -
(Okno Życia in Polish)

a specially prepared place that allows mothers who cannot or do not want to take care of their newborn to leave the baby/babies there anonymously and safely.

View attachment 508127

"What is a 'window of life'?​

'A Window of Life'
is a place where a woman can anonymously leave her child after giving birth.

The main goal of creating such places
is to provide a safe space,
thanks to which the child has a chance for a loving home,
which for various reasons cannot be provided by child's biological mother.

It is also a safe space for the mother:
the woman leaves the baby anonymously,
which is not allowed by the procedure for leaving the baby in the hospital after birth."

View attachment 508133

Okno życia – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

pl.m.wikipedia.org

Okna życia od lat budzą kontrowersje. Mało kto wie, co dokładnie dzieje się z dziećmi

Od kilku lat coraz częściej w oknach życia rozlega się alarm. Powstają też kolejne punkty, w których rodzice mogą anonimowo oddać dzieci. Pierwsze okna życia powstały już kilkaset lat temu. O ile w średniowieczu ich funkcjonowanie było w pełni uzasadnione, o tyle dziś okna życia często wzbudzają...

mamadu.pl

These pictures make me tear up. You can feel the care that the infants will be given. I imagine it would be tremendously reassuring to a scared mother.

 

[Lusitana]

I don't think whoever is abandoning these babies actually wants them to die. The Thames is super close, if the person who is leaving them didn't want the babies to be found and survive, the water is right there.

But something isn't right, 3 babies by the same parents. Super strange.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

So any drop off hatches would need to be at hospitals, which are by nature bustling with people and bristling with CCTV.

They could set up the baby hatch a short distance from a hospital, around a quieter corner, also walking distance from public transportation stops. In a city like London, I do believe it would be used. The alarm would notify hospital staff, who could then be there pretty quickly. It surprises me that the UK doesn't have these!

 

[steeltowngirl]

All I can think of is Josef Fritzl, who held his daughter prisoner for decades and raped her daily. She was able to raise three of her kids in the basement dungeon and some of them were raised by him and his wife. I wonder if they can easily tell if the babies are a product of incest.

The basement dungeon reminded me of the 3 young girls kidnapped and held captive in Ohio by Ariel Castro for a decade. One gave birth while in captivity.

Were there any missing young females in the same area 7 years ago?

 

[Rikissa]

These pictures make me tear up. You can feel the care that the infants will be given. I imagine it would be tremendously reassuring to a scared mother.

The problem for a child to have been left in a "windows of life" and other similar places is that it takes away the chance for the child to know anything about their familiar history, something which many adopted people have said they miss. Just think about how popular Ancestry and other similar tests are today.

Then, as it's very popular with DNA-tests, how can a woman or a man who once abandoned a child be certain that 20 years or more later that child will knock on their door and ask for why they were abandoned. Even if they themselves won't submit their DNA, they can't be sure that one of their relatives will do that. To suddenly have an "unknown" child pop up can cause havoc for the birth parents later.

 

[Dotta]

The problem for a child to have been left in a "windows of life" and other similar places is that it takes away the chance for the child to know anything about their familiar history, something which many adopted people have said they miss. Just think about how popular Ancestry and other similar tests are today.

Then, as it's very popular with DNA-tests, how can a woman or a man who once abandoned a child be certain that 20 years or more later that child will knock on their door and ask for why they were abandoned. Even if they themselves won't submit their DNA, they can't be sure that one of their relatives will do that. To suddenly have an "unknown" child pop up can cause havoc for the birth parents later.

Better to be left in a "window of life" in hygienic and safe place
than in a rubbish bin or in the street on the pavement.

Because there always
were, are and will be people who abandon their children anonymously
(for whatever reason).

Unfortunately.

So
this is a problem,
and not existence of "windows of life".

JMO

 

[Rikissa]

Better to be left in a "window of life" in hygienic and safe place
than in a rubbish bin or in the street on the pavement.

Because there always
were, are and will be people who abandon their children anonymously.

Unfortunately.

JMO

The best place would be at a hospital, after a child being born, to be given up for adoption, and that there should not be any shaming of a woman who for some reason felt that she was unable to take care of an unwanted child. Today, in many cases if a woman decides to give up a child, she is seen as a "unnatural mother", often both by family and by strangers, as she is expected to want to take care of a baby. I wonder how many women have been pressured into take care of a child they didn't want/felt unable to take care of, by family and/or societal expectations of how "motherhood will change you". Maybe some of those babies/children being found dead would have been alive if a woman would have been allowed to give up the child, without being judged for it.