UK - Three abandoned babies (2017, 2019, 2024) full siblings found in London

[nao]

Moo...not all females can take the pill, the pill can cause health problems for some. Condoms...well there are a lot of baby daddies out there, with no interest in babies....moo.

 

[Pseudonymph]

Yes, I know. The clue is in the name: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
You mentioned "Ireland", I assumed you meant the Republic of Ireland.

Nevertheless I stand by my opinion that scandals of this nature in the Rep. of Ireland and even in Northern Ireland (where there were also mother and baby homes) are unlikely to have affected this type of law in the UK as a whole or in England and Wales on its own.

I was a bit vague and clumsy in the post you're referring to because Northern Ireland has - like Scotland - its own legal system, separate from England and Wales. Another reason to make it even less likely that something going on in secret in the past away across the Irish Sea would affect the law in E&W now. MOO

I knew all that, but I will bow to your expertise. I am glad to know the US is doing something right in this area.

 

[BreadnLumpit]

I have some questions about birth control. Is it readily available in the UK? Is it expensive? You would think with this happening the first time they would not want to continue getting pregnant unless of religious beliefs against birth control. Would using condoms be apart of that religious belief?

All birth control is free in the UK: contraceptive pill, IUD, implants, injections, Dutch cap and condoms.

But you need to engage with the (also free at point of use) health care system in order to access it and engaging with the system means proving that you are entitled to use it.

That unfortunately means that illegal immigrants, for example, would be unable to access either contraception or general health care, and questions would certainly be asked if, say a doctor were asked to provide contraception for, say a woman with severe learning difficulties whose only male contact was a familial carer.

There are a number of situations where a woman could fall through the cracks of the system sadly.

 

[iamshadow21]

Made the news here in Australia. Has pictures of older siblings Harry and Roman as infants.

Three babies were abandoned in London over seven years. A DNA test revealed a devastating truth

The saga started in 2017, and this week, a court challenge revealed new details about three newborns left within kilometres of each other in east London. The "extremely rare" occurrence has put the spotlight on child abandonment — a phenomenon some say is poorly understood.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Susikatze]

All birth control is free in the UK: contraceptive pill, IUD, implants, injections, Dutch cap and condoms.

But you need to engage with the (also free at point of use) health care system in order to access it and engaging with the system means proving that you are entitled to use it.

That unfortunately means that illegal immigrants, for example, would be unable to access either contraception or general health care, and questions would certainly be asked if, say a doctor were asked to provide contraception for, say a woman with severe learning difficulties whose only male contact was a familial carer.

There are a number of situations where a woman could fall through the cracks of the system sadly.

I also believe and am afraid it may be some sort of abuse situation, probably unregistered immigrants, maybe a young woman being held captive somewhere by a "husband", "employer", "boyfriend" or family member.

I wish they could pinpoint the genetic heritage of the babies - theyre fully Black, but they could be Carribbean or from virtually anywhere in West, Central or East Africa. Would be important to see which community the parents may be located in. On the other hand, i guess it is hard, because the parents do not want to be found and if they feel threatened, further babies would likely be killed. But the mother may need help.

I think a sexworker having babies regularily and being forced to give them up is not the case here because they are all full siblings, the parents are in a longterm "relationship".

 

[steeltowngirl]

Made the news here in Australia. Has pictures of older siblings Harry and Roman as infants.

Three babies were abandoned in London over seven years. A DNA test revealed a devastating truth

The saga started in 2017, and this week, a court challenge revealed new details about three newborns left within kilometres of each other in east London. The "extremely rare" occurrence has put the spotlight on child abandonment — a phenomenon some say is poorly understood.

www.abc.net.au

Wait… I thought earlier reports said the children were FULL biological siblings - same mother AND father. The linked article says:

Authorities have not said whether the children have the same father.

"But we shouldn't forget that there is a father, it could be that the father isn't there, and that means the mother doesn't have that support," Dr Mueller said.

"It could be that the father has come to this conclusion with the mother, that this is something to do. It could be that the mother has a difficult relationship with the father.

"But clearly, it's worth considering the role of the father in this situation, whether there is a role for the father and if so, what that role might have been."

 

[iamshadow21]

Wait… I thought earlier reports said the children were FULL biological siblings - same mother AND father. The linked article says:

Authorities have not said whether the children have the same father.

"But we shouldn't forget that there is a father, it could be that the father isn't there, and that means the mother doesn't have that support," Dr Mueller said.

"It could be that the father has come to this conclusion with the mother, that this is something to do. It could be that the mother has a difficult relationship with the father.

"But clearly, it's worth considering the role of the father in this situation, whether there is a role for the father and if so, what that role might have been."

Usually the ABC (Australia) is very accurate, but in this case I would defer to publications like the BBC, purely because they are in the country where this is happening, and ABC is reporting remotely from the opposite side of the world.

MOO

 

[vereb]

The original BBC report has these quotes:

An expert told the court that, in his opinion, the genetic findings provided extremely strong scientific support for the view that Baby Elsa was “a full sibling” of the other two babies.

[Carol Atkinson, the most senior judge in East London Family Court] said the fact the three babies were full siblings was, for the same reason, “of enormous interest” in “our current society”.

Abandoned baby Elsa is third newborn deserted by same parents - BBC News

DNA tests have confirmed all three infants found in east London are full siblings, the BBC can report.

www.bbc.com

 

[Twittens]

Glad to have found this thread. I've been wondering whether this case would be a valid exception to the UK and European rules about searching DNA databases. I think there have been some exceptions but there's huge anxiety about the thin end of the wedge etc if databases get used for regular crime solving. This is genuinely an exceptional scenario though, imo, in the sense of being a rarity, and also is not just about prurient curiosity about the siblings, who can be connected as they grow up if that's thought to be beneficial anyway, so much as safeguarding the mother, who in all likelihood is very vulnerable.

Regarding baby hatches, I think in the UK the 'traditional' place to abandon babies was telephone boxes, which ofc are much rarer than they were. I had a colleague a long time ago who'd been left in a phone box by his mother, and while he struggled greatly with abandonment, he took a lot of comfort from the fact that she'd cared enough to leave him somewhere sheltered and where he was likely to be found. He subsequently found that she'd also watched from a discreet distance to make sure he was rescued promptly.

Access to contraception and TOP if necessary thankfully makes such drastic actions less necessary than yesteryear, so it would seem these children's mother is at the very least unable to access women's health care freely. I really hope she can be found and helped. Given Elsa was only an hour old, it seems unlikely to me that her mother is the one doing the physical abandoning, which begs the question of whether she is really aware of what's happening to her babies, still less consenting to it.

All MOO.

 

[Twittens]

I hadn't appreciated that there'd been a sighting of a woman in the area just before Elsa was found, who might perhaps be her mother:

Officers also previously expressed concern for the mother’s welfare and urged her to come forward, with a woman spotted entering the Greenway from the High Street South entrance at around 8.45pm on January 18.

Chief Superintendent Simon Crick, lead for policing in Newham, said in January: “We believe the woman is black, was wearing a large dark coat with a light-coloured scarf or hood around her neck, and had a rucksack on her back.”

Elsa was found at 9.15pm on 18 January and was thought only to be about an hour old, so if the woman described was her mother, that would mean she was up and about 30 minutes after giving birth. Tbh, that makes me wonder if the woman was in fact someone else even if she was the one who brought Elsa to the Greenway - perhaps a relative or an unrelated person with some control over Elsa' mother. The rucksack might suggest homelessness - or equally might not, I guess.

That's a pretty good description though, and even if there was no cctv specifically where Elsa was left, you might hope that cctv positions in the immediate area were studied closely to see if the same woman was picked up again nearby, either that day or any other time.

Mother of baby abandoned in shopping bag still not found, court told

 

[steeltowngirl]

This is genuinely an exceptional scenario though, imo, in the sense of being a rarity, and also is not just about prurient curiosity about the siblings, who can be connected as they grow up if that's thought to be beneficial anyway, so much as safeguarding the mother, who in all likelihood is very vulnerable.

^RSBM
Been thinking a lot about your excellent post, and especially the part I have bolded. I truly hope that the powers-to-be understand that the children have a right to know. They had no control over the circumstances of their births. They do have a right to learn of their biological relationship, and to have enough knowledge to connect in the future, should they choose to do so.

I’ve mentioned before on another thread that I was born to a teen mother and left at the hospital. Back then, ’angel’ nurses would know of people looking to adopt abandoned babies. I went to a nice family, but grew up as an only child without siblings to older parents who passed when I was still a young adult. Thankfully, my birth mother left enough information that I was able to later locate my 3 FULL siblings, with whom I formed and have continued a family relationship. We cherish our bond.

Point being, IMO, it’s not up to officials to determine what is beneficial for these children. It’s their birthright to know as much as possible about their own identities. I am unfamiliar with British orphan law, but perhaps the children’s original birth certificates can be amended to include the known siblings’ information. It would allow the children to be able to make a choice in the future to connect with one another. It’s their choice to make, not the government’s.

All jmo

 

[nhmemorymaker]

^RSBM
Been thinking a lot about your excellent post, and especially the part I have bolded. I truly hope that the powers-to-be understand that the children have a right to know. They had no control over the circumstances of their births. They do have a right to learn of their biological relationship, and to have enough knowledge to connect in the future, should they choose to do so.

I’ve mentioned before on another thread that I was born to a teen mother and left at the hospital. Back then, ’angel’ nurses would know of people looking to adopt abandoned babies. I went to a nice family, but grew up as an only child without siblings to older parents who passed when I was still a young adult. Thankfully, my birth mother left enough information that I was able to later locate my 3 FULL siblings, with whom I formed and have continued a family relationship. We cherish our bond.

Point being, IMO, it’s not up to officials to determine what is beneficial for these children. It’s their birthright to know as much as possible about their own identities. I am unfamiliar with British orphan law, but perhaps the children’s original birth certificates can be amended to include the known siblings’ information. It would allow the children to be able to make a choice in the future to connect with one another. It’s their choice to make, not the government’s.

All jmo

Thank you for your loving personal story.
I have two friends who were teen moms and gave their child up for adoption. (One from Pittsburgh !!!, late late 60s)
Both did reconnect with their babies many many years later.
One has a fair and decent relationship.
One is very close to her birth mom and her two half siblings.
And the pictures are amazing .... the adopted daughter looks exactly like her mother! So much more than her half sisters. I just find it wonderful that all the siblings have bonded so. Just as you have said.

 

[seasideForest]

Update on baby Elsa 'doing well' and plea for information: Baby Elsa: Abandoned baby 'doing well' but parents still unknown

 

[Goecke]

A few months ago I posted here talking genetic testing to see if Elsa and her siblings were born out of incest, particularly testing for regions of homozygosity and how it can show shared ancestry but can't be definitively rule incest in or out.

Turns out I was partially wrong. In certain cases, the %ROH (AKA the portion of the genome that is identical) is simply too high to account for the distant shared ancestry commonly seen in patients with ancestry from small/insular ethnic groups. But %ROH only gets so high to where incest is the only explanation in cases where the parents are first degree relatives (parent/child or full siblings), or second degree relatives if there's a generational history of incest (cousins, half-siblings, uncle/neice, aunt/nephew, grandparent/grandchild). So if Elsa's parents were cousins and there was no other inbreeding in the family, ROH testing would be uninformative. It's definitely not a foolproof way to test for incest unless the parents are VERY closely related.

 

[Luwin]

£20,000 reward offered as police search for parents of three abandoned babies

Police appeal for information relating to three babies abandoned by the same parents shortly after birth in east London. A reward of £20,000 is also being offered by Crimestoppers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Police have released a new appeal for information relating to three babies abandoned by the same parents shortly after birth in east London.
A reward of £20,000 is also being offered by Crimestoppers.
It is exactly one year since Baby Elsa was found alive in a shopping bag near the Greenway footpath in east London, just an hour old.
Police have now released a photo of the Boots carrier bag.

 

[MarziPanda]

I wonder if Boots have provided info as to when that particular style of bag was sold. It looks older to me, I don't think I've seen them in that style for a while.

I get the impression that the police are a lot less concerned about charging the mother and a lot more concerned about her welfare, which is quite right. Nobody abandons three babies in the modern day just for fun, there must be a reason. Whether that be immigration fears, drugs, an abusive relationship, money issues, or something more extreme like being held in modern slavery.

I'm reminded of Mo Farah's story, where he was trafficked over as a child to work as 'house help'. I wonder if the mother could be trafficked 'house help' and the father is her 'employer' (heavy on the quote marks because she wouldn't be getting paid!). Then perhaps the woman seen abandoning Elsa could be the father's wife, who turns a blind eye because she would be prosecuted too.

It's a good thing social services seems to be aware of the importance of sibling relationships and has said the siblings will know each other.

 

[MarziPanda]

To add: the privacy laws that might prevent usual genetic genealogy don't really apply in this case because the three children are alive. It's probably against safeguarding and privacy practices for it to be done in an official capacity by the police or social services, but there's nothing stopping the adoptive parents of the older two from DNA testing their child. I know lots of people who have DNA tested their children for various reasons.

Even if matches are minimal it would at least provide some clues, like the heritage of the parents. A more mixed (various different African/Caribbean communities) heritage could indicate their families have been in the UK for a few generations, whilst something very pinpointed (such as solely Somali heritage for example) could indicate they might be more recent immigrants.

 

[Scottish_Person]

DNA-tests have revealed that baby Elsa, found in a shopping bag on 19 January, 2024, is a full sibling of Harry, found in 2017, and of Roman, found in 2019. The two boys have been adopted, and little Elsa is in a foster home, but it's planned that they will have some contact while they are growing up. It's very strange that three full siblings have been found abandoned, I wonder why the parents are doing this, as it's obvious they are still together seven years after the birth of the first child.

Baby found dumped in shopping bag was just an hour old, police reveal

Police launched an urgent appeal for information after the baby girl was found wrapped in a towel by a member of the public walking their dog in Newham on Thursday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Babies found dumped in shopping bags in London parks will be reunited

The trio of children were dumped in parks with the most recent - a baby girl - being found at just an hour after she was born in a shopping bag in Newham amid sub-zero temperatures in January.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I dont think the parents are a couple. I too feel that this must be a case of repeated abuse. A family member abusing another family member, resulting in pregnancy, which has perhaps been able to be concealed until the baby is born. People are wondering a why a couple who are still together are abandoning their babies. It is obviously the same man impregnating this woman, but it doesn’t seem to me to be a ‘couple’ in the usual sense. It is iMOO, long term sexual abuse of a family member who has been able to keep the abuse - and the resulting pregnancies - secret. Beggars belief. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Skigh]

I dont think the parents are a couple. I too feel that this must be a case of repeated abuse. A family member abusing another family member, resulting in pregnancy, which has perhaps been able to be concealed until the baby is born. People are wondering a why a couple who are still together are abandoning their babies. It is obviously the same man impregnating this woman, but it doesn’t seem to me to be a ‘couple’ in the usual sense. It is iMOO, long term sexual abuse of a family member who has been able to keep the abuse - and the resulting pregnancies - secret. Beggars belief. I hope I’m wrong.

Unfortunately,that is what I feel is happening.

 

[Scottish_Person]

Such a strange set of circumstances! Obviously something very mentally wrong with the parents.

I don’t think it is a couple behind it, parents as such. IMOO it there is systematic abuse going on, perhaps incestuous, where the same man is impregnating the girl/woman, she is managing to conceal the abuse AND each pregnancy and then leaving the babies to be found as soon as they are born. Tragic. And if true, has genetic implications for the babies development.