GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[MobyBluff]

Could you explain please?

SH has been dating the grandmother for years apparently. You think he's being protected to spy on the grandmother for the Police?

 

[Inge Jones]

I don't think the police would allow her to walk free if they suspected anything at all of her involvement.

They haven't. That's why she's on bail not just "released". She will have restrictions imposed on her movements and have to report to the police station at intervals. The could not keep her in for longer than a few days without charging her (the exception is terrorist suspects) and they must let her leave custody until they have enough evidence to charge her.

 

[graceholl]

They haven't. That's why she's on bail not just "released". She will have restrictions imposed on her movements and have to report to the police station at intervals. The could not keep her in for longer than a few days without charging her (the exception is terrorist suspects) and they must let her leave custody until they have enough evidence to charge her.

If they had enough to get SH and she was obviously involved even in a Maxine Carr-esque fashion she'd have been charged off the bat though, surely.

ETA Saying that though when did they charge Maxine Carr??

 

[laserdisc10]

SH has been dating the grandmother for years apparently. You think he's being protected to spy on the grandmother for the Police?

At no time have I suggested any such thing. Don't know how you could possibly construe what I wrote to even imply any such thing

 

[Inge Jones]

If they had enough to get SH and she was obviously involved even in a Maxine Carr-esque fashion she'd have been charged off the bat though, surely.

ETA Saying that though when did they charge Maxine Carr??

The thing is, Maxine Carr actually admitted lying. They didn't actually charge her until she had, if my memory serves me. An admission is evidence.

 

[graceholl]

Breaking

"@Danny Shaw ‏@DannyShawBBC
#TiaSharp More details about Tia's death...there were bruises to her body. One possible cause of death - not yet established - smothering"

Strangulation or suffocation surely the cause of death. I can't see the best defence lawyer in the world getting this guy off the hook.

 

[laserdisc10]

Originally I thought that. Getting stuff into lofts is so much easier with two people although the more I think about it the more I think he could do alone. I remember one case where a police officer found a body in a cupboard and was amazed at how little space it took up. I think SH put Tia into a black holder and then was able to get that into the loft on his own. I am beginning to suspect that there was no ladder at all in the house and all he had to do was stand on a chair probably putting the holdall round his neck when getting on the chair and the lift the holdall which would I am guessing be around 7ish stones in weight into the loft.

If he put her in a holdall or similar, then tied rope through the handles of the hold-all, he could then climb into the loft (leaving the hold-all on the floor) and from above, he could possibly pull the hold-all up (using the rope) and maneuvre it through the trap door from above

 

[graceholl]

The thing is, Maxine Carr actually admitted lying. They didn't actually charge her until she had, if my memory serves me. An admission is evidence.

That rings a bell and is I believe why she was sentenced to a short amount of time in prison. Might be harder to nail CS.

 

[Adorabella]

It seems that there are 3 possible scenarios:

1. Tia died when she was alone with SH Thurs evening/ Friday morning
2. Tia died when G'ma came home on Friday afternoon
3. Tia died after the alarm was raised that she was missing

If it was 1 - then it seems that SH had help from G'ma as she has appeared to cover SH's lies (maybe through dysfunction and/ or shock and panic)
If it was 2 or 3 - then Tia's untimely death may involve both SH and G'ma, or they are both aware with one covering for the other

None of the 3 possible scenarios rule out that G'ma had knowledge of the crime and going along with the 'missing' story and therefore as it seems she did now something would be the most likely person to have helped put Tia's body in the loft.

Unless, of course, G'ma did tell the police of her concerns early on and was advised to go along with the story in order to 'trap' SH, which could be another explanation for her sour expression.

There are so many possibles and the truth may be made up of one, some or none of them.

 

[MobyBluff]

At no time have I suggested any such thing. Don't know how you could possibly construe what I wrote to even imply any such thing

Wasn't it you that said you believe he is being protected as he is a police informer? If not, I apologise.....

 

[Skigh]

They haven't. That's why she's on bail not just "released". She will have restrictions imposed on her movements and have to report to the police station at intervals. The could not keep her in for longer than a few days without charging her (the exception is terrorist suspects) and they must let her leave custody until they have enough evidence to charge her.

They also arrested her on suspision of murder, rather than perverting the course of justice or assisting an offender so I think there is a strong feeling from the police that she was involved in some way but they do not have the evidence to prove it.

It could be that the police have tapped her phone and are keeping a very close eye on her.

 

[laserdisc10]

Wasn't it you that said you believe he is being protected as he is a police informer? If not, I apologise.....

I speculated (controversially I suggested at the time, which appears to be an accurate prediction) that he may be a police informant

By informant, as 'Destroyer' clarified soon afterwards, I meant a 'grass' generally. Many ex-cons turn to informing to retain their liberty. Police need and do use informants. Informants provide valuable information and some informants are considered by some officers to be more than generally valuable and as such they're regarded as 'assets' who provide police leads and other often crucial information

Some informants specialise, i.e., some may be the police's eyes and ears on the ground re: drug supplies coming into the country. Some informants sell any information they have in return for cash, drugs, or so police will just take it easy on them and turn a blind eye

So by speculating he may be a police informant, that is what I meant, not that he was an informant on CS

 

[TykeyTrouble]

If he put her in a holdall or similar, then tied rope through the handles of the hold-all, he could then climb into the loft (leaving the hold-all on the floor) and from above, he could possibly pull the hold-all up (using the rope) and maneuvre it through the trap door from above

Indeed it is possible but I suspect a little well thought out for him. He seems more of a stand on a chair and use brute force kinda guy to me but that's just my opinion.

 

[MobyBluff]

Sky News reporter says on TV that it's "UNUSUAL" to stop a post mortem. So back to my earlier question......what is there to be gained form pausing it. You just get more decomposition surely? Is it possible that it has been completed, but the results are not being made public. If so, why?

 

[Skigh]

It seems that there are 3 possible scenarios:

1. Tia died when she was alone with SH Thurs evening/ Friday morning
2. Tia died when G'ma came home on Friday afternoon
3. Tia died after the alarm was raised that she was missing
If it was 1 - then it seems that SH had help from G'ma as she has appeared to cover SH's lies (maybe through dysfunction and/ or shock and panic)
If it was 2 or 3 - then Tia's untimely death may involve both SH and G'ma, or they are both aware with one covering for the other

None of the 3 possible scenarios rule out that G'ma had knowledge of the crime and going along with the 'missing' story and therefore as it seems she did now something would be the most likely person to have helped put Tia's body in the loft.

Unless, of course, G'ma did tell the police of her concerns early on and was advised to go along with the story in order to 'trap' SH, which could be another explanation for her sour expression.

There are so many possibles and the truth may be made up of one, some or none of them.

Or a 4th possibility that Granny was at home some time on Thursday afternoon /evening or possibly returned early Friday morning.

I would have thought it would be quite straightforward for the police to check Granny's movements and work hours.

If Tia was alive on Friday evening then I thought there would be sightings of her during the day and signs her phone had been used unless she was restained in some way.

 

[MobyBluff]

I speculated (controversially I suggested at the time, which appears to be an accurate prediction) that he may be a police informant

By informant, as 'Destroyer' clarified soon afterwards, I meant a 'grass' generally. Many ex-cons turn to informing to retain their liberty. Police need and do use informants. Informants provide valuable information and some informants are considered by some officers to be more than generally valuable and as such they're regarded as 'assets' who provide police leads and other often crucial information

Some informants specialise, i.e., some may be the police's eyes and ears on the ground re: drug supplies coming into the country. Some informants sell any information they have in return for cash, drugs, or so police will just take it easy on them and turn a blind eye

So by speculating he may be a police informant, that is what I meant, not that he was an informant on CS

OK, so what you are saying is that as he is an important informant elsewhere that the Police consider him so important that they will try and keep him at liberty despite the "fact" that he has murdered a 12 year old girl? Are you saying that he is so important to the Police that he can just go ahead and murder children?

I am saying that whilst he may be an informant he would not have been getting any special treatment by the police in a murder investigation in which he was a suspect.

Are you suggesting he was?

 

[laserdisc10]

Indeed it is possible but I suspect a little well thought out for him. He seems more of a stand on a chair and use brute force kinda guy to me but that's just my opinion.

I don't have a firm opinion about his abilities, apart from thinking that if, as reported, he lied about searching the fun-fair, then he has a natural flair for inventiveness and can be very persuasive as revealed by the tv interview. The number of people online who are persuaded those big blue eyes are proof of his innocence is legion. People are concocting very elaborate and ridiculous theories in defence of his innocence

The media reported a few days ago that a woman who claimed to have known him well described him as 'not having a nasty bone in his body' and said he was very much the charmer and popular with women. I'd go so far as to suggest he's equally adept at charming men, also. On the strength of this and on his performance in the tv interview, I'm not amongst those who underestimate him, his intelligence, his abilities or anything else

 

[MobyBluff]

I speculated (controversially I suggested at the time, which appears to be an accurate prediction) that he may be a police informant

Why does it appear accurate? Have I missed something?

 

[Clio]

Sky News reporter says on TV that it's "UNUSUAL" to stop a post mortem. So back to my earlier question......what is there to be gained form pausing it. You just get more decomposition surely? Is it possible that it has been completed, but the results are not being made public. If so, why?

I don't understand this either. It's also strange that they haven't yet confirmed her identity. Who else can it be? Even if they needed to do DNA analysis to confirm her identity, it shouldn't stop the PM going ahead.

I would have expected the prosecution PM to complete, then if necessary a defence PM to be done.

But to stop part way through the first PM is odd.

 

[MobyBluff]

I don't understand this either. It's also strange that they haven't yet confirmed her identity. Who else can it be? Even if they needed to do DNA analysis to confirm her identity, it shouldn't stop the PM going ahead.

I would have expected the prosecution PM to complete, then if necessary a defence PM to be done.

But to stop part way through the first PM is odd.

It's more odd than a mother dating her daughter's ex...;-)