Unorganized Searching

[chesterp]

I don't consider people running out of water/nourishment, not being able to secure a crime scene or getting a deputy or cadaver dog, "petty".

People were instructed to bring plenty of water and food for themselves. You find something you were to mark it and move on the team lead was the person to be debreifed with the info found. You had no reason to WAIT for someone to check it out. Mark and move on............. Apparently, your group did not follow instructions, and yes I consider "food and water" petty issues. If CSI, dogs, LE were not available it was the TEAM LEADER to bring it to the attention of the de-briefers and they gave the MARKED AREAS to the proper jurisdication, the police dept or the sheriff's dept, Forensic's or a search dog was sent to the area. Every team was not given these people on the spot due to the large amount of TEAMS going out. When we did find something we thought was important we called another TEAM LEADER in out area......... and we went to pick up the CSI person. My TEAM LEADER spoke to a sheriff at COMMAND CENTER to ask for verification our spot was checked.

We went to McDonald's for lunch and to our surprise we were given a 50% discount. Instead of going back to the Command Center for more ice.... the manager offered us ice for out coolers and gave us water. Ask and you shall receive................ Self-reliance is an important issue when dealing with the unknown.

 

[Baznme]

I truly feel for anyone who devoted their many energies to this search, and didn't get treated with dignity and respect. I hold you in the highest regard. You gave everything you had.

If....that was the case......it was not the norm.

 

[LI_Mom]

Tim Miller is a good man. No one has the right to slander him.

There are reasons for everything he does and everything he says.

I would never be so stupid to second guess him on anything. His life experience doing what he does ... dealing with frightened, desperate families looking for their loved ones is no easy calling, yet he does it and shares their pain with compassion from having walked in their shoes.

Unorganized searches have many drawbacks including safety which is my first thought.

Post after post sing the praises of Tim and ALL the searchers. They all have the complete admiration of everybody that is interested in finding Caylee.

They gave it their best DESPITE not being supported or appreciated by Caylee's own family or the Casey defense camp.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I honestly don't know if it's okay to post this here and I apologize in advance if it needs to be taken down asap. But here's just a bit of a comment from D. Lohr's site in response to his newest post, entitled "The Stories Behind the Caylee Anthony Search Effort", from a couple who drove over 800 miles to join in the search this weekend. I found it most informative:

..."The trip down went smoothly, we cut it up into a two days. We were at the "Tabu Nightclub" on friday for the "team leader meeting". We were both pretty excited about being there and showed up a little early. It was shocking that they were holding this meeting at a nightclub and especially a nightclub that NeJame's owns, I found this very disturbing. We thought the meeting would include a lot of information on the search and protocol related to TES's procedure, we were shocked. There was maybe 10 minutes of search related information, that's about it. The rest of the time was devoted to Nejame and Tim Miller telling us that we should not hate or judge the Anthony's, and if any searchers were heard talking about George or Cindy they would immediately be told to go home, no if's, and's or but's. This discussion about the Anthony's went on for probably an hour. NeJame had a man from the Never Loose Hope foundation come up on stage, after he explained that the man and his organization had taken unfair heat from the internet community. Then the representative from never loose hope handed Tim a check for $12,000."

I was not going to bring this up, but I am glad someone wrote about it. I felt the "training" left inexperienced people with a lot to desire. To be honest, I was shocked and very concerned at how little training they received. We left when the Anthony praise a thon started so I may have missed what happened later in case there was more training.

 

[concentric]

If....that was the case......it was not the norm.

And, I hold everyone who was treated with dignity and respect on the search, in the highest regard.

 

[impatientredhead]

Even more so KC. I think that TM felt that the scale and focus of this search would cause KC to want to fess up and help discover Caylee. TM did make a comment at one point about damn KC.

This is a first both in that the Anthony family don't support the search AND that the perpetrator who knows where Caylee is -- is her mother and a member of that same family not some stranger.

Double whammy. The grandparents are not fully supportive, the mother is keeping silent and -- TM has all of these other families who need him and are the complete opposite. How can TES focus when the scales tip away from the Anthony's?

And in the midst of the circus, dealing with media, a lunatic family that doesn't want him searching, and having already conducted searches for this missing person who we all know to be dead.... in the midst of ALL of that there is a family in North Carolina BEGGING Tim and his people to come there where a disabled family member has wander off from a residential treatment environment and has not been located. He might be alive and time is ticking away and Tim is dealing with the Anthony show. Keep in mind the purpose of the group he founded, that they work in all other cases with the families, to bring comfort and resolution to the family. The stark reality is that Caylee might never be found, and if they need to come back in a couple of weeks Caylee is not going to die in those weeks. The family of the man in NC cannot be told the same thing.

 

[cyberborg]

From what I understand part of the problem with this whole case has been people not knowing what they are doing conducting their own searches. If by chance you do stumble upon something you could be disrupting a potential crime scene and contaminating it. If you do decide to conduct your own searches please do not touch what you find and call LE right away.

I think we all desire too high a standard for finding Caylee.

Lets face it, the likelyhood now is that some hiker or homeless person is going to discover Caylee's remains. Trip over them. They are not trained, they don't know what to do.

Hopefully they will call 911 -- unlike KC -- and get help.

Also, it isn't a crime scene as much as a dump site and likely, if on ground, will have been disturbed by animals.

Do we want to preserve the 'crime scene' in the hope that one day trained searchers will find the remains or . . . just find Caylee?

I personally think that every and any search is good. JMHO.

 

[shaz4372]

Is there a way we can confirm the nightclub story?

It is public knowledge........Tabu Night Club....nothing sinister with the club. Never Lose Hope donated $12,000 to TES for searches. What is the main goal....FIND CAYLEE...............

You stating that it is public knowledge is not conformation.

 

[jennyb]

You cannot count on definite numbers of volunteers. Have you ever tried to fill up a movie theater on preview night? You see people at malls passing out free tickets, trying to fill a 350 seat theater. They give out thousands of tickets because they know the percentage of people who say they're going to be there is probably 10% of who will show up. That's just the nature of the beast.

I'm sure any organization with any experience knows this fact. 8,000 people say they're going to be there. Assume automatically it will be 1,000 if you're lucky. I think they had a pretty good turnout all things considered.

 

[EmMomma]

Alliances are strange animals.
On NG last week (we remember that mess) NeJame came out swinging at Leonard.
Ugly, ugly, ugly.
Leonard took it well and did not roll in the mud with NeJame as I would have.
Now we have what appears to be an alliance between NeJame and Tim.
How did NeJame get to Tim?
What trade off did Tim make with NeJame?
Hit me now if you feel the need, but something about this mess is not yet known to us.:furious:

I'm not gonna hit ya, I come here for opinions. :blowkiss:
Maybe Tim feels the need to mend fences with the A's?
Maybe he feels that if he can get support from someone in their camp, he will somehow be privy to more information?
Maybe he can sympathize more than the rest of us with the A's and their wacko behavior, since he's lost a child?
Maybe he's trying to be the "good guy"?
Who knows?
Like I said...emotions are running high...logic and emotion aren't normally found together...
I don't think Tim has "traded" anything with anyone...I think he's done what is best, in his mind, in terms of the search efforts and finding Caylee...but we may never know what's behind all of this, you are right.

As for why Tim left...he left in order to continue the TES mission...to help a family in NC find their loved one who has a chance of being reunited with them, alive and well...Caylee could be found, if one person would speak. She's not doing that, so my blessings and well wishes to Tim, the TES core team, and the family of the man in NC. I hope this has a happy ending, Lord knows those are few and far between these days.

 

[twitterpated]

FloridaKatz-
Thank you so much for volunteering your time to the search this weekend. I don't feel you are exaggerating at all. You have posted an insightful view into the challenges of the search. With all of the wonderful volunteers that came out this weekend, I am not the least bit surprised that things were disorganized. But as others have said, at least we know where Caylee is not. Thanks again to you and all of the WS's that volunteered their time and energy this weekend.

 

[Baznme]

I was not going to bring this up, but I am glad someone wrote about it. I felt the "training" left inexperienced people with a lot to desire. To be honest, I was shocked and very concerned at how little training they received. We left when the Anthony praise a thon started.

I wasn't crazy about the meeting location either. It was difficult to find a place to park and the atmosphere just didn't feel right but nonetheless, since the hotel conference rooms were booked, TM took what was offered. The price was right. MN donated the place and light beverages and the staff donated their time. If you had stuck around after the meeting as you were invited to do to ask questions you had, you would have been more enlightened the next morning. As I said, I wasn't crazy about the meeting location either but I knew the meeting content was what was important and just to clarify, the donation was for $12,500 dollars, not $12,000.

 

[Laece]

Those that rode a bus, ran out of food and water half way through their 2 hour assignment, and had to load onto the bus to go to a local fast food or convenience store to refresh their bodies.

okay, i am asking this is in all serious...how much food does one really need in order to complete a 2 hour assignment? water i can understand, but if you get to the point of starvation in less than 2 hours, no matter how grueling the task, then prepare yourself or don't attempt it. i don't get that part.

i understand these people are heroes. i understand they're trying to help and their needs should be, etc, etc, etc. but honestly, how much food is needed to sustain someone on a 2 hour search, to the point that it is necessary to stop and seek out more instead of waiting one more hour and getting the job done?

 

[LI_Mom]

Not to bash TM at all -- but I'm just perplexed. I don't understand, given all the facts you've set out, why he came back. It's just not logical.

You know.... now I have to wonder if Nejame & the Anthonys promised Tim he would have their FULL support if he came back?

Perhaps the defense specifically wanted to lull Tim back in hopes he would NOT find Caylee & that would help Casey's defense?

Once Tim returned he quickly saw nothing had really changed but his back was against the wall & he tried to make the best of a bad situation... the search went on for appearances sake.

I, for one, hope Tim NEVER comes back to search for Caylee at least until AFTER Casey is convicted & sentenced. He's just TOO decent & TOO compassionate to be used & abused by people he's only trying to help.

His only reason for searching is to help VICTIMS.... not to be used as a pawn by a family trying to defend a pathological liar.

TES should devote its time & energy toward helping families who WANT to be helped.... leave all ingrates behind.

 

[concentric]

Another search I followed on-line four years ago was huge. They followed protocol to the T. However, when some of the searchers decided to go out on their own, they met with tremendous resistance from LE. Reason being: LE said that they had already "cleared" the area and no one was allowed to enter. This area was precisely where some volunteers (both on-line and in the field) believed was in the "comfort zone" of the perpetrator, and would be the place where he would leave the victim, perhaps still alive.

I'm sorry, I'm tearful as I write this: The victim's body WAS many months later found in the area closed off to the volunteer searchers.

 

[EmMomma]

And in the midst of the circus, dealing with media, a lunatic family that doesn't want him searching, and having already conducted searches for this missing person who we all know to be dead.... in the midst of ALL of that there is a family in North Carolina BEGGING Tim and his people to come there where a disabled family member has wander off from a residential treatment environment and has not been located. He might be alive and time is ticking away and Tim is dealing with the Anthony show. Keep in mind the purpose of the group he founded, that they work in all other cases with the families, to bring comfort and resolution to the family. The stark reality is that Caylee might never be found, and if they need to come back in a couple of weeks Caylee is not going to die in those weeks. The family of the man in NC cannot be told the same thing.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[essies]

I don't think that Tim "Bad Mouthed" leonard for that reason alone.

I think Tim Millers is angry with Leonard because he is going out of his way to insult, lie, spread rumors & hurt the Anthony's any way he can.

This is just my opinion & believe me, I'm not a fan of the Anthony's but Leonard's constant attacks on the Anthony's is actually creating a lot of sympathy for them....

I personally believe it is the strategy of the Anthony's to "divide and conquer" and cause as much distraction and animosity as possible so as to defeat the ultimate goal-FIND CAYLEE!!! Remember the Anthony's are pretty good at attacking others they feel are a threat too. They attacked LE, JG, AH, YM, KB, LP, TM, all the evidence, and the media. Basically their mindset is-IF YOU'RE NOT WITH US THEN YOU'RE AGAINST US.
As far as LP "creating a lot of sympathy for them"-I don't see it unless you were already headed that way and have'nt heard both sides. IMO

 

[jennyb]

You know.... now I have to wonder if Nejame & the Anthonys promised Tim he would have their FULL support if he came back?

Perhaps the defense specifically wanted to lull Tim back in hopes he would NOT find Caylee & that would help Casey's defense?

Once Tim returned he quickly saw nothing had really changed but his back was against the wall & he tried to make the best of a bad situation... the search went on for appearances sake.

I, for one, hope Tim NEVER comes back to search for Caylee at least until AFTER Casey is convicted & sentenced. He's just TOO decent & TOO compassionate to be used & abused by people he's only trying to help.

His only reason for searching is to help VICTIMS.... not to be used as a pawn by a family trying to defend a pathological liar.

TES should devote its time & energy toward helping families who WANT to be helped.... leave all ingrates behind.

I agree with EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID. Tim is a fine man and I don't know what happened but it is too weird to figure out so I'm letting it go. But your hypothesis sounds very plausible to me. I'll take it.

 

[LI_Mom]

okay, i am asking this is in all serious...how much food does one really need in order to complete a 2 hour assignment? water i can understand, but if you get to the point of starvation in less than 2 hours, no matter how grueling the task, then prepare yourself or don't attempt it. i don't get that part.

i understand these people are heroes. i understand they're trying to help and their needs should be, etc, etc, etc. but honestly, how much food is needed to sustain someone on a 2 hour search, to the point that it is necessary to stop and seek out more instead of waiting one more hour and getting the job done?

Oh my gosh!

All people have different metabolisms.... some eat twice a day & some need to eat very frequently in order to feel ok.

Let's just assume some people arrived & really didn't know what to expect.... they didn't know how physically demanding a search could be. They weren't prepared for the Florida weather OR the terrain.

What's the harm in letting them gripe a bit about their selfless efforts to find this little girl? Letting off steam does NOTHING to diminish their devotion to the search OR to the organization OR to Tim.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

From what I understand part of the problem with this whole case has been people not knowing what they are doing conducting their own searches. If by chance you do stumble upon something you could be disrupting a potential crime scene and contaminating it. If you do decide to conduct your own searches please do not touch what you find and call LE right away.

All the persons I saw on self conducted searches were experienced searchers. Many were LE, military, and Search/Rescue teams. I did not see any individual non experienced searchers, so could you tell me where you found this information?